A vow to our leaders

[Gary Childress]

I don't care who "wins" the war in Ukraine. I vow that I will stand by and vigorously defend the first leader, (between Biden and Putin at the moment) who will step back and deliberately "lose" the war in Ukraine. Ties or stalemates don't count. But if you will sacrifice "victory" for peace and unilaterally withdraw or step down from the conflict, then there is nothing I can (nor anyone else ought to) conscientiously say other than "thank you" for your humanitarianism. It is a leader like you who deserves praise. I suspect every human being on Earth ought to say "thank you" to the first to deliberately "lose" the war as well.

Gentlemen. You have your notice. The first one to do it is a relative saint compared to the second. No ifs, ands or buts. Hands down.

Again, ties don't count.

[Gary Childress]

I give you my word. May I truly burn in hell if I break it.

[Constantine]

I give you my word. May I truly burn in hell if I break it.

Aren't you a God hating athiest?

[Gary Childress]

I give you my word. May I truly burn in hell if I break it.

Aren't you a God hating athiest?

I'm agnostic. All that truly matter is if there is a God or not. Nothing else is relevant to me in religion. If there is indeed a God, then I will vow to come to the defense of the first leader who forfeits victory in order to end a war where human beings are dying and farmland that could be producing food for the world is being laid to waste. If I don't defend that leader as promised, and there is a God, then I will accept hell if I don't keep my word. I will not say in all honesty that there is not a God. I don't know that in truth. I only question that God doesn't seem to me to be benevolent.

[Constantine]

I'm sure God is convinced with that reasoning. However, neither Biden or Putin requires a democratic vote, as both rely on persecution of their political opponents and sham elections to get into office. Neither your doubtful God or the two tyrants need your support. I recommend emigrating to a democracy and reevaluating your stance on religion (the last only if you insist on invoking heaven and hell).

[Gary Childress]

I'm sure God is convinced with that reasoning. However, neither Biden or Putin requires a democratic vote, as both rely on persecution of their political opponents and sham elections to get into office. Neither your doubtful God or the two tyrants need your support. I recommend emigrating to a democracy and reevaluating your stance on religion (the last only if you insist on invoking heaven and hell).

What happened to we need to prepare for war against Putin and Jinping in order to prevent those terrible dictators from winning? What happened to we need to fight for our own survival? How did that suddenly morph into neither side is ethical? You're playing some kind of game here and I'm not understanding it. I want peace between nations. I want someone to reach out and start good-faith negotiations. What do you want? What is at the root of this dance of yours?

[Flannel Jesus]

American exceptionalism at its finest.

Only an American would frame this war as a war between Biden and Putin, as if Ukrainians don't have a say in their own destiny.

Ask a Ukrainian if they see this as a war between Putin and Biden, see what they say.

[Constantine]

I'm sure God is convinced with that reasoning. However, neither Biden or Putin requires a democratic vote, as both rely on persecution of their political opponents and sham elections to get into office. Neither your doubtful God or the two tyrants need your support. I recommend emigrating to a democracy and reevaluating your stance on religion (the last only if you insist on invoking heaven and hell).

What happened to we need to prepare for war against Putin and Jinping in order to prevent those terrible dictators from winning? What happened to we need to fight for our own survival? How did that suddenly morph into neither side is ethical? You're playing some kind of game here and I'm not understanding it. I want peace between nations. I want someone to reach out and start good-faith negotiations. What do you want? What is at the root of this dance of yours?

I'm consistent in my stance on free will. If you believe there is no God I don't fight too hard to convince you otherwise. If you think God is a old shoe, then so be it. If you are not current on world events then you are most likely not going to make a impact. If you notice I only post a few times max in a thread then stop. I prefer people developing a opinion on their own. I'm just shocked how few people here seem to know anything of world events, given its what I largely follow.

As to peace, you benefit from a peace bought through bloc building, not American exceptionalism as just suggested.... polar opposites. Look to the health of your national union (guessing you were british since you were posting at 300 AM my time) and larger alliance network. I never suggest open acceptance and passive ignorance but rather astute awareness and long study of affairs, much as a ancient Athenian in their democracy would. If you want peace for yourself and others you make damn sure everyone is on board. Don't accept tyrannical forms of government. Don't accept unhinged wackomole Liberalism. Don't accept Fascism or Marxism. Try to craft a society that gives a damn but you always hold a line against the darkness. The darkness seeking to fundamentally smash your collective states. Make friends.... at first strong friends but in time learn to elevate weak states like the Baltics or Korea and Taiwan. They live a peaceful life too, and they keep a eye on that dark threat and take it very seriously. Trump was even willing to reach out to Russia and North Korea to lighten tensions (Biden and Hillary fucked Russia up bad by scapegoating them, that diplomacy down the drain).

In time we will reach a commonwealth of peaceful nations. This is the only proven oath that had worked since WW2.

[henry quirk]

American exceptionalism at its finest.

Only an American would frame this war as a war between Biden and Putin, as if Ukrainians don't have a say in their own destiny.

Ask a Ukrainian if they see this as a war between Putin and Biden, see what they say.

Well, both Ukrainian and Russian citizens are supposed to have a say, supposedly do have a say: reality is, the Ukrainian (as US proxy) and Russian States are callin' the shots in the brouhaha, and the current reps of those States (Putin, Zelenskyy, Biden, their underlings and overlings, etc.) don't give a rat's ass about the citizens.

[Flannel Jesus]

Ukraine, as a country, is fighting the war with their own soldiers, not American soldiers. As much as you might like it, Biden cannot surrender on behalf of Ukraine. You are apparently begging for a surrender, you're convinced that that's the best option, and erroneously think it's Bidens decision to make, but regardless of that mistake, why do you think that's a good option for Ukraine?

Imagine, you're stood in front of zelensky and a crowd of Ukrainians. This is your chance to convince them to surrender to Russia. What do you say?

[henry quirk]

I take it this...

Ukraine, as a country, is fighting the war with their own soldiers, not American soldiers. As much as you might like it, Biden cannot surrender on behalf of Ukraine. You are apparently begging for a surrender, you're convinced that that's the best option, and erroneously think it's Bidens decision to make, but regardless of that mistake, why do you think that's a good option for Ukraine?

Imagine, you're stood in front of zelensky and a crowd of Ukrainians. This is your chance to convince them to surrender to Russia. What do you say?

...is directed to Gary?

[Flannel Jesus]

...is directed to Gary?

When I was reading your previous post, I was under the impression it was Gary writing it. My mistake

[henry quirk]

...is directed to Gary?

When I was reading your previous post, I was under the impression it was Gary writing it. My mistake

No worries.

[Iwannaplato]

As much as you might like it, Biden cannot surrender on behalf of Ukraine.

But he or well the US probably could do this. They would do it behind the scenes. He also could have retracted his plan or really the US/European etc. plans to bring Ukraine into Nato, which he or really we know makes the Russians very nervous. He could have NOT denied the existence of the biowarfare labs co-run with the Ukraine very close to Russia. He could have done what, sadly, only Trump was calling for, which was to aim as much as possible towards negotiation and compromise. I think the Russians would have been open to a lot if the Nato plans were taken off the table, for example. and let's remember that the US was ready to push the button when the Russians were sending missiles to Cuba. Yes, that's missiles, not mere Nato Membership, but I believe Russia does feel extremely threatened by Ukraine membership and also the way the CIA has been playing around in the Ukraine. Further they could stop selling it as a democracy.

[Flannel Jesus]

He could have NOT denied the existence of the biowarfare labs co-run with the Ukraine very close to Russia.

I googled this and it looks currently unsubstantiated.

He could have done what, sadly, only Trump was calling for, which was to aim as much as possible towards negotiation and compromise.

Given trump's interesting relationship with Russia and the things he was saying, it sounded like his idea of compromise was mostly just handing over whatever pieces of Ukraine Russia wanted. That may have saved some lives in the short term but I don't think showing your belly to bullies in this way is necessarily a very good long term strategy.