Ganesh & Dattaswami

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Iwannaplato
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Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

Why is Ganesh placing obstacles in front of Dattaswami here in Philosophy Now?
Ganesha is one of the most distinctive Hindu deities with his large elephant head and pot-bellied human body. He plays a dual role of a supreme being powerful enough to remove obstacles and ensure success or create obstructions for those whose ambition has become destructive
Image

I've always appreciated the origin story of Ganesh. Unlike the Freudian Oedipus, here the child is born into an already problematic dynamic between the parents and the problems come because of the entire situation, not just this supposed demonic urge of the child to have sex with mom and supplant dad.
He is the son of Shiva and his consort Parvati, both of human form and yet he bears the head of an elephant. The reason for this closely follows his birth or more appropriately his creation. He was not born to Parvati as mere mortal are. It is said that she was lonely. Shiva was away as was often the case. In her loneliness it appears she was given to neglect personal hygiene, or maybe it was an act of pure desperation and determination. She decided to create a child and did this by forming him, Ganesh, through moulding a substantial accumulation of her body dirt. And so Ganesh was born and Parvati was happy and occupied.


The story goes that one day, while Parvati was having a bath, Shiva came home. When he attempted to enter the house though, he was met with resistance in the form of the boy Ganesh. Neither of them knew they were related. Shiva got angry at not being allowed in and dealt with the situation by chopping off Ganesh’s head. It was at this moment that Parvati came out to find what Shiva had done. She was inconsolable but managed to tell Shiva that the boy whose head he had cut off was in fact his son. Angry and upset at the hash he had made of the situation, Shiva decided to fix it. He went out and hunted the first animal he saw, the elephant, and brought back its head to replace the boy’s. That is how Ganesh has an elephant head. He is worshipped as the remover of obstacles.
dattaswami
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by dattaswami »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:57 am Why is Ganesh placing obstacles in front of Dattaswami here in Philosophy Now?
Ganesha is one of the most distinctive Hindu deities with his large elephant head and pot-bellied human body. He plays a dual role of a supreme being powerful enough to remove obstacles and ensure success or create obstructions for those whose ambition has become destructive
Image

I've always appreciated the origin story of Ganesh. Unlike the Freudian Oedipus, here the child is born into an already problematic dynamic between the parents and the problems come because of the entire situation, not just this supposed demonic urge of the child to have sex with mom and supplant dad.
He is the son of Shiva and his consort Parvati, both of human form and yet he bears the head of an elephant. The reason for this closely follows his birth or more appropriately his creation. He was not born to Parvati as mere mortal are. It is said that she was lonely. Shiva was away as was often the case. In her loneliness it appears she was given to neglect personal hygiene, or maybe it was an act of pure desperation and determination. She decided to create a child and did this by forming him, Ganesh, through moulding a substantial accumulation of her body dirt. And so Ganesh was born and Parvati was happy and occupied.


The story goes that one day, while Parvati was having a bath, Shiva came home. When he attempted to enter the house though, he was met with resistance in the form of the boy Ganesh. Neither of them knew they were related. Shiva got angry at not being allowed in and dealt with the situation by chopping off Ganesh’s head. It was at this moment that Parvati came out to find what Shiva had done. She was inconsolable but managed to tell Shiva that the boy whose head he had cut off was in fact his son. Angry and upset at the hash he had made of the situation, Shiva decided to fix it. He went out and hunted the first animal he saw, the elephant, and brought back its head to replace the boy’s. That is how Ganesh has an elephant head. He is worshipped as the remover of obstacles.
It is pitiable to depict Lord Ganapati [1][Ganesha] with the head of the elephant and offer grass and leaves to Him[2], treating Him as an animal. The story itself is absurd because the story says that Lord Shiva cuts the head of Ganapati, who was prepared by Goddess Parvati. It is said that Lord Shiva was ignorant of Ganapati being the son of Parvati[3]. How ignorant is this fabrication! Lord Shiva is said to be the deity of Knowledge (Jnanam Maheswaraat). He is Sarvajna or omniscient. Is it not insulting Lord Shiva who is the ultimate Lord? Even in the story of Markandeya[4], people have fabricated a story that Lord Shiva killed Yama[5] due to excessive anger and emotion, and that later on He realized His hasty action. Lord Shiva really gets angry and becomes Rudra[6] due to such insulting stories, which denigrate His divine personality.

Ganapati means the Lord of the devotees of His innermost circle that are liberated souls. He is the ultimate Lord who comes down to this earth in human form to play well here. Ignorance is at its maximum on earth and therefore the earth is an excellent playground for His divine play or game. He comes down along with His devotees of the innermost circle called as Gana (Kridayantam aharnisham—Shankara). It is just like a boy calling his closest friends to play a game or a person going to see and enjoy a cinema along with his family members. Therefore, the ultimate Parabrahman[7], who descends down in the human form along with His innermost devotees, for the divine play on this earth is Ganapati (Gananaantva—Veda).

What is the meaning of the elephant-head? It means the nature of the elephant. The head represents the intelligence or Buddhi of the elephant and not the head of the elephant physically. We scold a stupid fellow and call him a donkey. It means that his nature is like that of the donkey and not his physical form. What is the nature of an elephant? It is said “Gajaana mati Bhirutvam’, which means that the elephant has enormous strength but it forgets its own strength and is always afraid of everything. Similarly, when the Lord comes down, He imposes ignorance on Himself to enjoy the role. The actor should forget himself in the role if he wants to fully enjoy the role. Therefore, the Lord forgets His divine strength and acts like a Jeeva (soul) and fears for the troubles in this world. The Veda says that fear is the characteristic of the limited soul (Atha tasya Bhayam Bhavati). Only then can the Lord fully enjoy and also do full justice to the role.

It is said that Goddess Parvati prepared the body of Ganapati and also introduced life into it. This statement has inner spiritual meaning. Goddess Parvati represents Maya[8]. When the Lord incarnates, Maya prepares the human body and also introduces life, which is Para Prakriti[9] into it. Therefore, life or awareness is only a part of creation and is not Parabrahman. Ganapati also shows five faces like Shiva. This indicates that Parabrahman indicated by the word Shiva has entered the human body. Ganapati is said to be the husband of Siddhi and Buddhi[10]. Siddhi and Buddhi are not two ladies even though the symbolic representation shows two ladies. Buddhi means knowledge associated with logical analysis. Siddhi means attainment. You have to attain the Lord in human form, who is the Sadguru by logical analysis, so that you can eliminate the fraud preachers. Siddhi means the attainment of the Lord in human form.

Food and Ganapati

Dravya Yajna[11] means the sacrifice of the fruit of your hard work, which is called Karmaphala Tyaga in the Gita. This sacrifice is praised as the highest stage of the spiritual effort and is emphasized everywhere in the Gita. The Veda also says that one gets the goal only by the sacrifice of the fruit of his hard work (Dhanena Tyagenaikena). But in the Gita it is said that knowledge is higher than sacrifice of materials (Shreyaan Dravya mayaat). Now this is a contradiction. Here you have to solve it like this: when materials are wasted in terms of sacrifice that is done under ignorance, the ignorance can only be removed by knowledge. Therefore, in this case, knowledge of the inner meaning is better. The Veda also says that the food or money should not be wasted (Annam Naparicheksheeta). But when the fruit of work is properly utilized without wastage, the sacrifice of material is the highest because it is a practical sacrifice. Therefore, instead of purchasing leaves and branches of trees, you can use your money to serve the Sadguru or real devotees or beggars or at least hungry animals [in that order of preference]. Feed hungry animals with these leaves. Then the sacrifice is properly done and will give you good result.

Today people are worshipping the statue of Ganapati made out of earth. Such worship is condemned in the scriptures and especially by Shankara as Parthiva Puja. Ravana used to do this every day and was finally destroyed. It is actually a sin to establish the Lord in an earthen statue. You do the the ritual of initiation of life (Prana Pratistha) in the idol and then on the 10th day you say ‘Udvasana’, which means that you are removing the life from the body[12]. It means killing Lord Ganapati! You can invite the Lord but should never ask Him to get out after your work is over. You even immerse the dead body [idol] in the river on the 10th day! Instead, you should have a permanent photograph or statue and worship it everyday. You must invite the Lord every day and should never ask the Lord to go. In fact you should know that your invitation will never bring the Lord unless it is fully filled with devotion. Do you think that He comes on your invitation and goes out on your Udvasana? Is He your servant?

Some people say that if Lord Ganapati stays in the house, food materials will quickly get exhausted. How foolish is this idea! He is the Creator of this universe. He created you and food for you. Should you have such an idea towards Him? Is this devotion? You are treating Him as some human guest because when the guest stays for more number of days, food materials in the house get exhausted. In fact the statue or photograph does not eat even a grain of your food. Ganapati actually represents the Sadguru who is in human form. So now you think that if Ganapati i.e., Sadguru stays in your house forever, food materials will really get exhausted. In the correct sense of this statement, Ganapati means the human incarnation and not the statue or photograph. Thanks! At least you have recognized that Ganapati means the human form of the Lord and not the statue. Again this statement means that you can keep the Sadguru in your house for 10 days at the maximum and that He should be sent out by the 10th day. Therefore, you are treating the Lord as an outsider and not even equal to one of your family members, whom you keep forever and never ask them to leave. This shows the value you give to God!

You expect God to protect you in this world in every issue and finally give you salvation in the upper world? On this day we should analyse ourselves and feel ashamed regarding our behaviour to the Lord who gave us this human birth and created all these cosmic facilities. The story that the moon is cursed by Ganapati has also an inner meaning[13]. The moon represents the mind (Chandrama Manaso—Veda). This means that when the Lord comes in the human form, the mind sees only the outermost human body of the incarnation and laughs at the idea that He is the Lord as said in the Gita (Avajananti Mam). The face of such a fellow should not be seen by real devotees and this is the meaning of the story that we should not see the moon on this occasion.

Interpretation of Symbolism

You should take the inner sense of the story which alone is the truth. Scholars explain the concept in a symbolic language for the sake of illiterate and ignorant people. Ganapati was very brave and stood against even Lord Shiva. This means that when the Lord is with full knowledge in His original form, He is fully aware of His divine strength. But when the head of Ganapati is replaced by the head of an elephant, He forgot all his divine strength and was afraid of everything. This is a symbolic story. The actual meaning is that the Lord in his original form is fully aware of Himself and His power. But when He comes down in human form, He forgets His divine strength and fears like an ordinary soul. This gives full enjoyment to the Lord in the human role.

The vehicle of the huge Ganapati is a small rat[14]. This means that when you enter the service of the Lord, you need not think about your capacity to do service. By the will and power of the Lord you will do His service. You are just an external instrument and the Lord wants to give you divine fame. The small rat carries the huge Ganapati and this is not due to the strength of the rat. It is by the power of Ganapati, that the rat carries Him. When Ganapati and His brother Kumara got into the competition for the selection to the post of Ganapati (the leader of the Ganas)[15], the test was to go around the world and come back at the earliest. Kumara played the role of an ignorant devotee. Kumara represented the serpent which is famous for its ego (Tamas) and jealousy (Rajas). He went round the world at a tremendous speed. Ganapati surrendered to Narada who is the Sadguru. ‘Nara’ means knowledge and ‘Da’ is giver. This shows that if you catch the Sadguru and surrender to Him, you can achieve the goal very easily. By the advice of Narada, Ganapati went around His parents [Shiva and Parvati]. Shiva represents Parabrahman and Parvati represents the creation. Therefore, Ganapati went around the Parabrahman and also the creation. Kumara only went around the creation. The human forms of Shiva and Parvati represent the Lord in human form and His real devotees. Therefore service to the Lord in human form and His devotees is the ultimate path.

The rat was a demon and had become an enemy of the Lord. Finally it was turned into a servant of the Lord. This means that even if you misunderstand the Lord in human form for some time, but you realise the truth in course of time and surrender to Him, He will accept you as His servant and give you a place in His innermost circle. You need not hesitate due to your past behaviour. The Lord forgets everything and showers love on you in the same way as He graces other devotees.

Today you are offering sugarcane and leaves to Lord Ganapati[16]. Sugarcane consists of the visible matter of cellulose and the invisible sugar which can be known only by experience. This represents the human incarnation. The visible cellulose is the visible human body. The invisible sugar is the unimaginable Parabrahman, which can only be experienced. Similarly leaves represent the best item of food, which are green leafy vegetables. The sages lived on leaves, which have herbal medicinal value. Such food develops the quality of Sattvam which pleases the Lord. It is said that Lord Datta appeared to a sage called Parnada. Parnada means he who eats green leafy vegetables. Unless you understand the internal sense and get benefited, what is the use of celebrating a divine festival simply by wasting the money and by overeating?

[1] Lord Ganapathi

[2] Offerings to Lord Ganapathi

[3] Version where Lord Shiva does not know that Ganesha is Parvati’s son

[4] Markandeya story

[5] Yama

[6] Rudra

[7] ParaBrahman

[8] Maya

[9] Prakruti

[10] Siddi and Buddi

[11] Dravya Yagna

[12] Prana Pratishta and Udhvasana

[13] Story of moon

[14] Lord Ganapathi’s vehicle

[15] Test between Ganapathi and Kumara

[16] Offerings to Lord Ganapathi
Iwannaplato
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:24 am
It is pitiable to depict Lord Ganapati [1][Ganesha] with the head of the elephant and offer grass and leaves to Him[2], treating Him as an animal. The story itself is absurd because the story says that Lord Shiva cuts the head of Ganapati, who was prepared by Goddess Parvati. It is said that Lord Shiva was ignorant of Ganapati being the son of Parvati[3]. How ignorant is this fabrication! Lord Shiva is said to be the deity of Knowledge (Jnanam Maheswaraat). He is Sarvajna or omniscient. Is it not insulting Lord Shiva .....
OK first...Dattaswami wrote this not as a response to me but back in 2005.
https://www.universal-spirituality.org/ ... ng=4#_ftn1
So, if it seems not really a response to what I wrote, that's because it isn't.

But more importantly lets take this first point DS makes: he is upset that the origin story (seems to) insult Shiva. For some very odd reason DS takes the story literally.

He does not like that Shiva is presented as not knowing something.

But on his own website he presents Shiva being shocked by Parvati's behavior. How could someone with infinite knowledge be shocked? He then goes and tests her to see if she has matured. Why would he need a test to see if she has matured if he knows everything?
Goddess Parvati was Goddess Sati in the previous birth. When Daksha scolded God Shiva (his son-in-law), Sati Devi answered well to her father. God Shiva was listening to her replies from Kailasa itself. Suddenly, Sati changed her mood and committed suicide saying that she shall end her life because she heard abuses of God Shiva. This is a sudden emotional development. Next time, God Shiva went in the form of a bachelor and scolded God Shiva (Himself). This means God Shiva repeated the same situation of Sati to see her reaction. This time Goddess Parvati answered to the abuses of God Shiva like Sati, but did not commit suicide. Parvati stood up and told that she cannot hear the scoldings of God Shiva anymore and tried to go away. This time Parvati used her wisdom and did not become emotional to commit suicide. Now God Shiva is satisfied with the behaviour of Parvati and suddenly appeared as God Shiva and took her hand into His hand, which is called as Paanigrahanam or marriage. The essence is that God Shiva was shocked with the emotional behaviour of Sati previously and now once again He created the same situation and found the change in the emotional behaviour of Sati, who was born as Parvati. Only then did He marry Parvati because such emotional decision gave an unassuming shock to God Shiva and God Shiva wanted that such emotional tragedy must not repeat again.
or here later in DS's own story.....
The cause of the sudden disappearance was that God Shiva feared that Parvati may rub her feet on the ground and generate fire due to Shiva's non-acceptance of her marriage with Him.
There are many stories of the deities and different gurus and scholars have different versions they take to be the real one. Of course one can decide that the symbolism of one is not correct.

But the strangeness here is that DS takes as literal every facet of a story he does not like, when he should know full well that in the stories he likes, Shiva would seem to be ignorant and afraid, for example.

How could the destroyer of everything, an omnicient deity be afraid and ignorant? another scholar or guru could easily ask of DS when he publishes stories he likes.

This is basic understanding about what the function of these stories is: they speak in metaphor and symbols to indicate processes in spiritual growth or failure.
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by dattaswami »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:21 am
But on his own website he presents Shiva being shocked by Parvati's behavior. How could someone with infinite knowledge be shocked? He then goes and tests her to see if she has matured. Why would he need a test to see if she has matured if he knows everything?
God knows everything. He need not test anybody to show the result. Then why such test is done? It is for the public such test is done and the test result is shown so to learn from such incidents. Paravti is a great devotee of God and she proved her love to God in practice. To show this practical aspect alone such test was done.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

Oh, yes, I should have mentioned that DS's story about Shiva and Parvati is part of the sexist tendencies within Hinduism.
dattaswami
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by dattaswami »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:21 am
How could the destroyer of everything, an omnicient deity be afraid and ignorant? another scholar or guru could easily ask of DS when he publishes stories he likes.

This is basic understanding about what the function of these stories is: they speak in metaphor and symbols to indicate processes in spiritual growth or failure.
God is never ignorant. He takes such roles to teach a moral lesson to the devotees in the spiritual field. Parvati was overwhelmed by emotion. Now as a devotee she shall control her emotion. That is the meaning of all this incident. God is untouched by any quality like fear, anger etc. We human beings are the quality itself. God can use any quality so to give a message to the world of devotees. But He is untouched by it.

The qualities made negative by the misuse of the human beings are used in the same direction for certain positive purpose by the Lord. The so called negative qualities (made by souls) are expressed by the Lord in the same negative direction for the practical use of testing the devotees. Here, the negative quality is not introduced by the Lord. It is already introduced by the souls by diverting the positive quality created by Lord in negative direction. Therefore, God should not be blamed for expressing these negative qualities, Who is not the author of these negative qualities, for the sake of testing the devotees. They are not made negative by God. They are made negative by the souls only.

He uses these already existing negative qualities for a positive purpose. Hence, God need not be blamed at any stage for expressing these negative qualities. The positive quality created by Him is made negative through diversion into wrong direction. Such made negative qualities are just used by God for testing the devotion. Hence, there is no connection between God and negative quality. Even though, the quality is negative, it becomes positive again due to its practical positive use in testing the devotion. Therefore, the positive quality created by God is turned to the negative quality by the souls and such negative quality is used by God for a positive purpose of testing the devotion. Hence, you cannot blame the Lord Dattatreya testing the devotion through negative qualities in view of the above explained concept.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

And, well, I was kinda thinking TALK LESS might be a good watchword for DS.
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

And, well, I was kinda thinking TALK LESS might be a good watchword for DS.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:36 am and, well, listen more.
dattaswami
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by dattaswami »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:21 am How could the destroyer of everything, an omnicient deity be afraid and ignorant? another scholar or guru could easily ask of DS when he publishes stories he likes.

Scholars say that God Shiva tested the love of Parvati towards Him, but this is not correct because Parvati had already proved her climax love to Shiva in the previous birth. Hence, it was only to test the emotional behaviour of Parvati in highly emotional situations since there was previous experience. Finally, remember that God Datta acted in the roles of Shiva, Sati and Parvati to teach humanity that peaceful mental balance with wisdom must be maintained in any emotional situation.
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:50 am Scholars say that God Shiva tested the love of Parvati towards Him, but this is not correct because Parvati had already proved her climax love to Shiva in the previous birth. Hence, it was only to test the emotional behaviour of Parvati in highly emotional situations since there was previous experience. Finally, remember that God Datta acted in the roles of Shiva, Sati and Parvati to teach humanity that peaceful mental balance with wisdom must be maintained in any emotional situation.
Notice that this has nothing to do with the point I made.
An all knowing deity does not need to test anyone to find out anything.
Shiva would know. And yet in DS's story he has to test Parvati. In DS's story Shiva is even scared!!!!!
Of course this is not to be taken literally. DS understands this when it is his story
but not when it is someone else's.
He did not manage to address this issue here.
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by dattaswami »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:58 am
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:50 am Scholars say that God Shiva tested the love of Parvati towards Him, but this is not correct because Parvati had already proved her climax love to Shiva in the previous birth. Hence, it was only to test the emotional behaviour of Parvati in highly emotional situations since there was previous experience. Finally, remember that God Datta acted in the roles of Shiva, Sati and Parvati to teach humanity that peaceful mental balance with wisdom must be maintained in any emotional situation.
Notice that this has nothing to do with the point I made.
An all knowing deity does not need to test anyone to find out anything.
Shiva would know. And yet in DS's story he has to test Parvati. In DS's story Shiva is even scared!!!!!
Of course this is not to be taken literally. DS understands this when it is his story
but not when it is someone else's.
He did not manage to address this issue here.
That is the what i told you. Shiva is omnipotent. He knows everything. It is a play or dram played to show the humanity that one shall control emotion. The good lesson behind this dram shall be taken. Shiva acted in that role. Even Paravti also acted in that role to give a message to the humanity. God is never fearful or scared. It was the role taken by Him. In a drama an actress cries seeing her husband is dead. This is only acting. There is no actual emotion there. Roles are played in the drama.
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:58 am Notice that this has nothing to do with the point I made.
That's quite rude as intended. Just a childish rhetorical device. Who is supposed to notice? Dattaswami? Your ilk? Dattaswami wrote it, I can assure you he noticed what he wrote.

Do try and not be a jerk. The forum is all stocked up.

You don’t always get what you want but you do get what you need. Because all things are connected as proven by the six degrees of Kevin Bacon Principle, what you get can be connected to what you want, once you understand what you got … and what was gotten is always more than just another reason to complain, although that can be the primary reason if your complaint is a loud Ouch!

Did you, the one I'm addressing, observe that dattaswami has referenced Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda? As dattaswami has mentioned, the lotus of spirituality blossomed in India but now technology and the materialism has captured attention. Ramakrishna sent Swami Vivekananda to the new world to spread the word, because he knew in his enlightened ways, of the West’s hunger for spirituality.

Swami Vivekananda was not always well received in the USofA.

Dattaswami continues with Swami Vivekananda's message, and in part with the same energy as Swami Vivekananda received but from the voice, not the body. Some folks ran him out of their towns.

The spiritual hunger in the West was caused by a culture evolving towards the pursuit of materialism as an end. This has evolved into the spiritual materialism of retail therapy for the soul. The pleasure is found in the acquisition rather than the possession.

This results in egotistical notions of spirituality through superior consumption. For example, some products are more virtuous than others: electric cars, bamboo clothes, hair ties for hair buns, and Apple consumer electronics.

This is good to remember for last minute gift shopping. Buy the spiritually virtuous gifts, and support the planet.
Walker
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Walker »

Ganesh

Abundance and prosperity.

The question is, abundance of ... what?

Food is the source of life for the body, for those who see the body. Ganesh has a big belly.

Ganesh feeds the spirit for those who feed the spirit, for the abundance of an unblocked spirit is happiness, and prosperity of the spirit.
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Re: Ganesh & Dattaswami

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:26 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:58 am Notice that this has nothing to do with the point I made.
That's quite rude as intended.
I think it's a statement of fact. If I was wrong, you'd point it out. Perhaps it was somehow a response to me, but it's not rude to point out something was not a response. Unless of course I have to take DS as a deity, as is claimed on his website, and thus everything he does and says must be taken as perfect. If you are hoping I will be like that, you are wasting your time. If you think situations are the guru, then learn from that.
Just a childish rhetorical device. Who is supposed to notice? Dattaswami? Your ilk? Dattaswami wrote it, I can assure you he noticed what he wrote.
Anyone who's interested my imperative was intended for. I doubt there are many. Probably just the three of us.
Do try and not be a jerk. The forum is all stocked up.
You don’t always get what you want but you do get what you need.
Precisely. So DS is getting what he needs and so are you.
Because all things are connected as proven by the six degrees of Kevin Bacon Principle, what you get can be connected to what you want, once you understand what you got … and what was gotten is always more than just another reason to complain, although that can be the primary reason if your complaint is a loud Ouch!
Precisely, so DS can go ouch or you can. And here you are complaining.
Did you, the one I'm addressing, observe that dattaswami has referenced Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda? As dattaswami has mentioned, the lotus of spirituality blossomed in India but now technology and the materialism has captured attention. Ramakrishna sent Swami Vivekananda to the new world to spread the word, because he knew in his enlightened ways, of the West’s hunger for spirituality.

Swami Vivekananda was not always well received in the USofA.
Who is? But he was generally received very well. Accolades about this speaking and spirituality in newpapers. Successful lecture tours.

Dattaswami continues with Swami Vivekananda's message, and in part with the same energy as Swami Vivekananda received but from the voice, not the body. Some folks ran him out of their towns. He....

wait a minute, this is...not relevant.
The spiritual hunger in the West was caused by a culture evolving towards the pursuit of materialism as an end. This has evolved into the spiritual materialism of retail therapy for the soul. The pleasure is found in the acquisition rather than the possession.
You need to find someone else to lecture. There's nothing I've written that makes this relevant or seemingly necessary for me to hear. You've likely made some assumption about me or my spirituality or something else, and that's being charitable. But this is not something that corrects some position I have.

Same for the rest after that...

Have you mulled over why you keep interceding? Something you think he can't learn from or handle? Trust you not he?
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