Islam MUST HAVE reformation in the West protecting secularism

[attofishpi]

What a weak sop. No wonder they are winning.

Nah there does need to be some middle ground otherwise we are just banging our heads together rather than getting to what is crucial - protecting our future freedom and that of our next generation.

What does this 'middle ground' look like, and how do you negotiate it with fanatics?

It's not the 'fanatics' that we need to win over my friend.

[accelafine]

Nah there does need to be some middle ground otherwise we are just banging our heads together rather than getting to what is crucial - protecting our future freedom and that of our next generation.

What does this 'middle ground' look like, and how do you negotiate it with fanatics?

It's not the 'fanatics' that we need to win over my friend.

Please clarify.

[attofishpi]

What does this 'middle ground' look like, and how do you negotiate it with fanatics?

It's not the 'fanatics' that we need to win over my friend.

Please clarify.

Well, you won't be able to educate the left and win their agreement without including SOME of their values.

Let's take LGBTQ+ - fine, accept that some blokes and women are attracted to their own sex - it's a FACT.

So if I am going to get them at these protests at their rallies in support of Palestine - to READ what Islamic Muslims are actually instructed to do on a pamphlet - I need to make the pamphlets be covered in rainbows to start with!

Well, now I have changed the title again to this: "Islam MUST HAVE reformation in the West protecting secularism."

[accelafine]

FFS

[Veritas Aequitas]

You got a lot to learn.

Doubtless. Fortunately, I might even be capable of learning, unlike you.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

I was referring specifically [only] to your ignorance of the religion of peace or rather piece[s].
You have any comment on this which I wrote above?
So it is either you are ignorant & wrong or I am of the above.
Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

You got a lot to learn here as well.

All humans are encoded in the DNA with an inherent existential crisis, i.e. a dilemma which is suppressed and subliminal for good reasons.
The Primal Existential Crisis
viewtopic.php?t=41714
This existential crisis generates terrible angsts [terror within] which need to be soothed.
Fortunately religion is the most effective balm to soothe the terrible terror within, i.e just believed and salvation is assured, thereby the angst of mortality is immediately relieved.
Most of the religion are theistic based, i.e. a supernatural God to take away the terror and pains arising from the existential crisis and angsts.

But each religion has its own constitution, command with different rules, laws, on "morality" conduct [how to act], beliefs [what to think and believe in], etc. that need to be complied with in exchange for the promised of salvation.
It is this difference that give rise to the different religion as constituted in different holy texts from an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God.

The "religion of peace" is the only mainstream religion that has an evil-laden constitution where a percentile [10%?] of believers are every ready to obey every command of committing acts [the average human would define as 'evil' *] upon non-believers.
* https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

The constitution of the other [most] mainstream religions are fundamentally pacifistic.

Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

[Gary Childress]

You got a lot to learn.

Doubtless. Fortunately, I might even be capable of learning, unlike you.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

I was referring specifically [only] to your ignorance of the religion of peace or rather piece[s].
You have any comment on this which I wrote above?
So it is either you are ignorant & wrong or I am of the above.
Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

You got a lot to learn here as well.

All humans are encoded in the DNA with an inherent existential crisis, i.e. a dilemma which is suppressed and subliminal for good reasons.
The Primal Existential Crisis
viewtopic.php?t=41714
This existential crisis generates terrible angsts [terror within] which need to be soothed.
Fortunately religion is the most effective balm to soothe the terrible terror within, i.e just believed and salvation is assured, thereby the angst of mortality is immediately relieved.
Most of the religion are theistic based, i.e. a supernatural God to take away the terror and pains arising from the existential crisis and angsts.

But each religion has its own constitution, command with different rules, laws, on "morality" conduct [how to act], beliefs [what to think and believe in], etc. that need to be complied with in exchange for the promised of salvation.
It is this difference that give rise to the different religion as constituted in different holy texts from an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God.

The "religion of peace" is the only mainstream religion that has an evil-laden constitution where a percentile [10%?] of believers are every ready to obey every command of committing acts [the average human would define as 'evil' *] upon non-believers.
* https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

The constitution of the other [most] mainstream religions are fundamentally pacifistic.

Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

Telling Muslims you're going to wipe their religion off the face of the Earth is simply going to provoke and incite them to violence. It's stupid.

[accelafine]

Doubtless. Fortunately, I might even be capable of learning, unlike you.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

I was referring specifically [only] to your ignorance of the religion of peace or rather piece[s].
You have any comment on this which I wrote above?
So it is either you are ignorant & wrong or I am of the above.
Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

You got a lot to learn here as well.

All humans are encoded in the DNA with an inherent existential crisis, i.e. a dilemma which is suppressed and subliminal for good reasons.
The Primal Existential Crisis
viewtopic.php?t=41714
This existential crisis generates terrible angsts [terror within] which need to be soothed.
Fortunately religion is the most effective balm to soothe the terrible terror within, i.e just believed and salvation is assured, thereby the angst of mortality is immediately relieved.
Most of the religion are theistic based, i.e. a supernatural God to take away the terror and pains arising from the existential crisis and angsts.

But each religion has its own constitution, command with different rules, laws, on "morality" conduct [how to act], beliefs [what to think and believe in], etc. that need to be complied with in exchange for the promised of salvation.
It is this difference that give rise to the different religion as constituted in different holy texts from an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God.

The "religion of peace" is the only mainstream religion that has an evil-laden constitution where a percentile [10%?] of believers are every ready to obey every command of committing acts [the average human would define as 'evil' *] upon non-believers.
* https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

The constitution of the other [most] mainstream religions are fundamentally pacifistic.

Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

Telling Muslims you're going to wipe their religion off the face of the Earth is simply going to provoke and incite them to violence. It's stupid.

Be nice and meet them 'half way'. Reason with them. See how that goes. Just a question. What does 'half way' between rational and insanity look like?

[Veritas Aequitas]

Doubtless. Fortunately, I might even be capable of learning, unlike you.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

I was referring specifically [only] to your ignorance of the religion of peace or rather piece[s].
You have any comment on this which I wrote above?
So it is either you are ignorant & wrong or I am of the above.
Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

If morality is encoded in our DNA, like a computer algorithm, then all of these religious distinctions are irrelevant. How is it that they differ, given your "objective morality" theory?

You got a lot to learn here as well.

All humans are encoded in the DNA with an inherent existential crisis, i.e. a dilemma which is suppressed and subliminal for good reasons.
The Primal Existential Crisis
viewtopic.php?t=41714
This existential crisis generates terrible angsts [terror within] which need to be soothed.
Fortunately religion is the most effective balm to soothe the terrible terror within, i.e just believed and salvation is assured, thereby the angst of mortality is immediately relieved.
Most of the religion are theistic based, i.e. a supernatural God to take away the terror and pains arising from the existential crisis and angsts.

But each religion has its own constitution, command with different rules, laws, on "morality" conduct [how to act], beliefs [what to think and believe in], etc. that need to be complied with in exchange for the promised of salvation.
It is this difference that give rise to the different religion as constituted in different holy texts from an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God.

The "religion of peace" is the only mainstream religion that has an evil-laden constitution where a percentile [10%?] of believers are every ready to obey every command of committing acts [the average human would define as 'evil' *] upon non-believers.
* https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

The constitution of the other [most] mainstream religions are fundamentally pacifistic.

Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

Telling Muslims you're going to wipe their religion off the face of the Earth is simply going to provoke and incite them to violence. It's stupid.

I agree that is a bit harsh.
I often use the term 'weaned off' gradually in the future ASAP [in the next few generations]. It is not easy to deal with the related 'cold turkey'.
Muslims need to be educated and made aware of the essential nature of their religion which they relied upon to relieve their existential pains.

is simply going to provoke and incite them to violence. It's stupid.

That "incite them to violence" is very telling and evident why the religion itself is evil laden.
Q5:33 commands and sanctions believers to kill non-believers if they insult [a thread] the religion.
No believers will dare to commit violence in defending their religion if their God do not permit and encourage it.

In contrast;
If a Christian's religion is insulted by non-Christians, no Christian will dare to be violent or kill the non-believer because then they would have committed a sin in not loving all even their enemies or give the other cheek and other pacifist acts.

It is stupid in the long run not to to something about this potential danger from such a religion; but it is not the believers' fault, it is the ideology itself which is evil laden that will drive some percentile to be commit [authorized] violence in the name of the religion.

[Veritas Aequitas]

I was referring specifically [only] to your ignorance of the religion of peace or rather piece[s].
You have any comment on this which I wrote above?
So it is either you are ignorant & wrong or I am of the above.
Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.


You got a lot to learn here as well.

All humans are encoded in the DNA with an inherent existential crisis, i.e. a dilemma which is suppressed and subliminal for good reasons.
The Primal Existential Crisis
viewtopic.php?t=41714
This existential crisis generates terrible angsts [terror within] which need to be soothed.
Fortunately religion is the most effective balm to soothe the terrible terror within, i.e just believed and salvation is assured, thereby the angst of mortality is immediately relieved.
Most of the religion are theistic based, i.e. a supernatural God to take away the terror and pains arising from the existential crisis and angsts.

But each religion has its own constitution, command with different rules, laws, on "morality" conduct [how to act], beliefs [what to think and believe in], etc. that need to be complied with in exchange for the promised of salvation.
It is this difference that give rise to the different religion as constituted in different holy texts from an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God.

The "religion of peace" is the only mainstream religion that has an evil-laden constitution where a percentile [10%?] of believers are every ready to obey every command of committing acts [the average human would define as 'evil' *] upon non-believers.
* https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

The constitution of the other [most] mainstream religions are fundamentally pacifistic.

Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

Telling Muslims you're going to wipe their religion off the face of the Earth is simply going to provoke and incite them to violence. It's stupid.

Be nice and meet them 'half way'. Reason with them. See how that goes. Just a question. What does 'half way' between rational and insanity look like?

That is just like patting a poisonous snake.

I've just listened this video related to Lebanon once known as the Paris of the Middle East.
My Chat with Brigitte Gabriel, On Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinians, and Islam (THE SAAD TRUTH_1681)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Js5EQozEc
The Lebanese Government at one time took pity on the Palestinian Muslim refugees, then the ideology reared its ugly head and the Islamists [Hezbollah] took control over the country and look at what happened to Lebanon now??

[accelafine]

Telling Muslims you're going to wipe their religion off the face of the Earth is simply going to provoke and incite them to violence. It's stupid.

Be nice and meet them 'half way'. Reason with them. See how that goes. Just a question. What does 'half way' between rational and insanity look like?

That is just like patting a poisonous snake.

I've just listened this video related to Lebanon once known as the Paris of the Middle East.
My Chat with Brigitte Gabriel, On Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinians, and Islam (THE SAAD TRUTH_1681)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Js5EQozEc
The Lebanese Government at one time took pity on the Palestinian Muslim refugees, then the ideology reared its ugly head and the Islamists [Hezbollah] took control over the country and look at what happened to Lebanon now??

There was a ceasefire on Oct 6. I wonder if any of the wokesters on here could remind us of what happened the next day? Probably not. They don't retain much.

[Veritas Aequitas]

ISLAM is an evil ideology moreso than a religion. No other religion has masses of doctrine insisting people covert to its teachings AND laws or be killed by its followers.

Perhaps you have never heard of the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Witch-killing craze in 16th century Europe. I am not an expert on Muslim theology. However, I'm quite sure there are experts who would dispute your claim, although there are also Fundamentalists who embrace it.

Religions are complicated and often contradictory. Logic is the science of non-contradiction. So the two are often at odds. But contradictions and paradoxes abound in our world, and we sometimes use religion to enable us to think about them. The Caliphate in Cordoba in the last centuries of the first Millenium AD embraced a Muslim theology of reason, acceptance and culture. The Menocal history I cited earlier points this out. Were they not Muslims? Or were they sophisticated Muslims interpreting the Quran differently from their more fundamentalist brethren? Perhaps the rise of atheism and scientific rationalism has put a damper on sophisticated and tolerant theologies, because those attracted to them are no longer religious. This may hold true for Christians, Jews and Muslims (as well as other believers).

I wrote above:

You got a lot to learn.

A Christian is one who has entered into a covenant [new divine contract] with Jesus/God where the terms of the contract are confined only within the Gospels. [the offer by God in John 3:16 and elsewhere]
The overriding maxim of the contract is ALL Christians are to 'love all, even enemies,' 'give the other cheek' and the likes, meaning no killing and violence upon non-believers.
If Christians were to kill or are violent, they are doing that on their own personal volition and cannot be in the name of God as a contractual obligation.
They therefore have sinned in non-compliance with the contractual terms as a contracted-Christian.

On the other hand, to qualify, ALL Muslims must enter into a contract [covenant -mithaq] directly with Allah.
The contractual terms [confined to the Quran] contain the obligation of the contracted Muslim to kill non-believers upon the slightest threats [fasadin - drawing of cartoon even disbelieving is a threat] to the religion. Quran 5:33 and >300 violent related verses.
If they do not kill non-Muslims they have sinned and may miss their chance of eternal life in paradise.
Those who comply with God's terms in killing of non-believers upon the slightest threat are good Muslims in the eyes of God.

That the majority do not comply is because their good human nature prevails or they are ignorant of their contract obligation. In this case, they are good-humans but bad-Muslims who do not comply with their contractual obligations.

So it is either you are ignorant & wrong or I am of the above.
Show me proofs if you think I am wrong.

Perhaps you have never heard of the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Witch-killing craze in 16th century Europe.

The above violent acts committed by "Christians" were not committed in the name of Jesus/God or Christianity but rather in their own personal capacity.
They all have sinned as a Christian in accordance with their covenant with Jesus/God where they are supposed to love all, even enemies, give the other cheek, and so on.

The only recourse for them is to ask for forgiveness.
The Crusaders had sinned regardless but they could have been forgiven by God for fighting for a just cause.
Those Christians involved in the Inquisition, or the Witch-killing craze would have been sent to Hell due to their ignorance [is no defense].

[Veritas Aequitas]

Be nice and meet them 'half way'. Reason with them. See how that goes. Just a question. What does 'half way' between rational and insanity look like?

That is just like patting a poisonous snake.

I've just listened this video related to Lebanon once known as the Paris of the Middle East.
My Chat with Brigitte Gabriel, On Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinians, and Islam (THE SAAD TRUTH_1681)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Js5EQozEc
The Lebanese Government at one time took pity on the Palestinian Muslim refugees, then the ideology reared its ugly head and the Islamists [Hezbollah] took control over the country and look at what happened to Lebanon now??

There was a ceasefire on Oct 6. I wonder if any of the wokesters on here could remind us of what happened the next day? Probably not. They don't retain much.

The wokesters think they are ALTRUISTIC [re victimhood] but they are on a stupid, irrational, blind altruistic-bandwagon like lemmings.

[accelafine]

That is just like patting a poisonous snake.

I've just listened this video related to Lebanon once known as the Paris of the Middle East.
My Chat with Brigitte Gabriel, On Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinians, and Islam (THE SAAD TRUTH_1681)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Js5EQozEc
The Lebanese Government at one time took pity on the Palestinian Muslim refugees, then the ideology reared its ugly head and the Islamists [Hezbollah] took control over the country and look at what happened to Lebanon now??

There was a ceasefire on Oct 6. I wonder if any of the wokesters on here could remind us of what happened the next day? Probably not. They don't retain much.

The wokesters think they are ALTRUISTIC [re victimhood] but they are on a stupid, irrational, blind altruistic-bandwagon like lemmings.

They are actually relishing and encouraging the downfall of civilisation. I have no interest in seeing into their tiny little minds.

[Atla]

Be nice and meet them 'half way'. Reason with them. See how that goes. Just a question. What does 'half way' between rational and insanity look like?

Should Muslims reach critical mass in Western European countries and start taking over, they would only half enjoy torturing and killing those who won't convert. Maybe there would even be half as much torture.

[Veritas Aequitas]

The title of this thread is utterly stupid, bigoted, insulting to others and intolerant. This thread ought to be locked and deleted.

My opinion.

Gazza - is the thread title now reasonable: Islam MUST HAVE reformation or be outlawed

The holy text is from God is dictated to be immutable; there is no way anyone can change God's words. Reformation is an impossibility, unless the Islamic God can reappear to change it Himself.

Instead of 'wipe off,' 'weaned off' may be more appropriate.
This is very urgent because when Islamists get hold of cheap WMDs it is 'no holds barred' for them because regardless of what happened on Earth, they are assured of a place is paradise -the faster to go to paradise the better - they [the only humans] are thus indifferent to M.A.D.

Many & 'some' [not all] Muslims will often proclaim 'we love death more than you love life' which is conveyed [implied] via verses in the holy text.