Philosophy
“A philosopher knows that in reality he knows very little. That is why he constantly strives to achieve true insight. Socrates was one of these rare people. He knew that he knew nothing about life and about the world. And now comes the important part: it troubled him that he knew so little.” Jostein Gaarder
Okay, but no where near as troubled as those here who insist everone else is obligated to know exactly what they do.
“The wealth required by nature is limited and is easy to procure; but the wealth required by vain ideals extends to infinity.” Epicurus
And then, of course, the ones who attach "or else" to that.
“It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.” Diogenes of Sinope
Though madness -- a "condition" -- can never be entirely ruled out.
“The better organized the state, the duller its humanity.” David Mitchell
God or No God, of course.
“The essence of independence has been to think and act according to standards from within, not without: to follow one's own path, not that of the crowd.” Nicholas Tharcher
Of course, here, that's where "I" come in.
“The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.” Frederic Bastiat
My guess: some considerably more than others.
Quote of the day
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iambiguous
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
The Accused
Cliff: [to Sarah] Hey, wanna play pinball?
Among other things.
Cliff: No, I don’t know her. She’s a whore, the last time I saw her she was doing a sex show.
Kathryn: You watched?
Cliff: You bet your ass I watched. She put on a great show!
Kathryn: I thought she was raped?
Cliff: Raped? She fucked a bar full of guys then she turns round and blames them for it? Listen lady, she loved it, she had an audience, she did the show of her life!
And, for all we know, he actually believed that.
Kathryn: How were you dressed?
Sarah: What's that supposed to mean?
Kathryn: It means were you dressed provocatively? Showing a lot of cleavage? See-through blouse?
Sarah: What the fuck does it matter how I was dressed? They tore it off of me!
Of course, for some, that's all that matters.
Kathryn: Listen again…“A person is guilty of criminal solicitation if he commands, induces, entreats or otherwise persuades another person to commit a felony-”
D.A.: You can read it to me until you’re blue in the face, I am not gonna let you prosecute a bunch of spectators...
Kathryn: [cutting him off] They’re not spectators. They solicited the rape.
D.A.: Do you really want to ask a jury to lock up a bunch of people for clapping and cheering?
Kathryn: Clapping? Cheering? Pushing? Goading? Getting the rape going and keeping it going!
D.A.: And what happens if you lose? You’ll look like an incompetent. If you win, you’ll look like a vengeful bitch. Either way, you’ll hurt yourself and this office. Now, drop it. You’ve got more important things to do.
Kathryn: No I haven’t.
D.A.: You haven’t got more important things to do than go to trial with a sure loser? What the hell’s gotten into you?
Kathryn: We owe her.
D.A.: Owe her what? We put the rapists away.
And, to this day, they're still going at it.
Kathryn: Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Paulson has told you the testimony of Sarah Tobias is nothing. Sarah Tobias was raped but that is nothing. She was cut, bruised, and terrorized but that is nothing. All of it happened in front of a howling crowd and that is nothing. Well, it may be nothing to Mr. Paulson, but it is not nothing to Sarah Tobias and I don’t believe it’s nothing to you. Next, Mr. Paulson tried to convince you that Kenneth Joyce was the only one in that room who knew that Sarah Tobias was being raped. The only one. Now you watched Kenneth Joyce, how did he strike you? Did he seem specially sensitive? Did he seem so remarkable that you said to yourselves, “Of course. This man would notice things other people wouldn’t.” Do you believe that Kenneth Joyce saw something in that room that those three men didn’t see. In all the time that Sarah was pinned down on that Pinball machine that other people didn’t know? Kenneth Joyce confessed to you that he watched a rape and did nothing. He told you that everyone in that bar behaved badly and he was right. But no matter how immoral it may be, it is not the crime of criminal solicitation to walk away from a rape. It is not the crime of criminal solicitation to watch a rape. But it is the crime of criminal solicitation to induce, or entreat, or encourage, or persuade another person to commit a rape. Hold her down, stick it to her, make her moan. These three men did worse than nothing. They cheered and they clapped and they rooted the others on. They made sure that Sarah Tobias was raped, and raped, and raped, and raped. And tell me, was that nothing?
I suspect some here might suggest that it was next to nothing.
Cliff: [to Sarah] Hey, wanna play pinball?
Among other things.
Cliff: No, I don’t know her. She’s a whore, the last time I saw her she was doing a sex show.
Kathryn: You watched?
Cliff: You bet your ass I watched. She put on a great show!
Kathryn: I thought she was raped?
Cliff: Raped? She fucked a bar full of guys then she turns round and blames them for it? Listen lady, she loved it, she had an audience, she did the show of her life!
And, for all we know, he actually believed that.
Kathryn: How were you dressed?
Sarah: What's that supposed to mean?
Kathryn: It means were you dressed provocatively? Showing a lot of cleavage? See-through blouse?
Sarah: What the fuck does it matter how I was dressed? They tore it off of me!
Of course, for some, that's all that matters.
Kathryn: Listen again…“A person is guilty of criminal solicitation if he commands, induces, entreats or otherwise persuades another person to commit a felony-”
D.A.: You can read it to me until you’re blue in the face, I am not gonna let you prosecute a bunch of spectators...
Kathryn: [cutting him off] They’re not spectators. They solicited the rape.
D.A.: Do you really want to ask a jury to lock up a bunch of people for clapping and cheering?
Kathryn: Clapping? Cheering? Pushing? Goading? Getting the rape going and keeping it going!
D.A.: And what happens if you lose? You’ll look like an incompetent. If you win, you’ll look like a vengeful bitch. Either way, you’ll hurt yourself and this office. Now, drop it. You’ve got more important things to do.
Kathryn: No I haven’t.
D.A.: You haven’t got more important things to do than go to trial with a sure loser? What the hell’s gotten into you?
Kathryn: We owe her.
D.A.: Owe her what? We put the rapists away.
And, to this day, they're still going at it.
Kathryn: Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Paulson has told you the testimony of Sarah Tobias is nothing. Sarah Tobias was raped but that is nothing. She was cut, bruised, and terrorized but that is nothing. All of it happened in front of a howling crowd and that is nothing. Well, it may be nothing to Mr. Paulson, but it is not nothing to Sarah Tobias and I don’t believe it’s nothing to you. Next, Mr. Paulson tried to convince you that Kenneth Joyce was the only one in that room who knew that Sarah Tobias was being raped. The only one. Now you watched Kenneth Joyce, how did he strike you? Did he seem specially sensitive? Did he seem so remarkable that you said to yourselves, “Of course. This man would notice things other people wouldn’t.” Do you believe that Kenneth Joyce saw something in that room that those three men didn’t see. In all the time that Sarah was pinned down on that Pinball machine that other people didn’t know? Kenneth Joyce confessed to you that he watched a rape and did nothing. He told you that everyone in that bar behaved badly and he was right. But no matter how immoral it may be, it is not the crime of criminal solicitation to walk away from a rape. It is not the crime of criminal solicitation to watch a rape. But it is the crime of criminal solicitation to induce, or entreat, or encourage, or persuade another person to commit a rape. Hold her down, stick it to her, make her moan. These three men did worse than nothing. They cheered and they clapped and they rooted the others on. They made sure that Sarah Tobias was raped, and raped, and raped, and raped. And tell me, was that nothing?
I suspect some here might suggest that it was next to nothing.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Free Will
“To be a god can ultimately become boring and degrading. There'd be reason enough for the invention of free will! A god might wish to escape into sleep and be alive only in the unconscious projections of his dream-creatures.” Frank Herbert
Let's ask Him.
“You may fetter my leg, but Zeus himself cannot get the better of my free will.” Epictetus
Does Zeus know that?
“I love men too — not merely individuals, but every one. But I love them with the consciousness of egoism; I love them because love makes me happy, I love because loving is natural to me, because it pleases me. I know no “commandment of love.” I have a fellow-feeling with every feeling being, and their torment torments, their refreshment refreshes me too; I can kill them, not torture them.” Max Stirner
Uh, you tell me?
“Dear Sir, poor sir, brave sir." he read, "You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next - and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine. Some persons seem to like you, and others seem to hate you, and you must wonder why. They are simply liking machines and hating machines. You are pooped and demoralized," read Dwayne. "Why wouldn't you be? Of course it is exhausting, having to reason all the time in a universe which wasn't meant to be reasonable.” Kurt Vonnegut
Your Creator might contest this, of course.
“No one has free will until they are an adult, and by then the choices that were made for them, have already set them on a course that gives limited freedom in the choices to be made.” J.D. Stroube
See, I told you!
“Wheels have been set in motion, and they have their own pace, to which we are...condemned. Each move is dictated by the previous one - that is the meaning of order. If we start being arbitrary it'll just be a shambles: at least, let us hope so. Because if we happened, just happened to discover, or even suspect, that our spontaneity was part of their order, we'd know that we were lost. A Chinaman of the T'ang Dynasty - and, by which definition, a philosopher - dreamed he was a butterfly, and from that moment he was never quite sure that he was not a butterfly dreaming it was a Chinese philosopher. Envy him; his two-fold security. ” Tom Stoppard
A new thread?
“To be a god can ultimately become boring and degrading. There'd be reason enough for the invention of free will! A god might wish to escape into sleep and be alive only in the unconscious projections of his dream-creatures.” Frank Herbert
Let's ask Him.
“You may fetter my leg, but Zeus himself cannot get the better of my free will.” Epictetus
Does Zeus know that?
“I love men too — not merely individuals, but every one. But I love them with the consciousness of egoism; I love them because love makes me happy, I love because loving is natural to me, because it pleases me. I know no “commandment of love.” I have a fellow-feeling with every feeling being, and their torment torments, their refreshment refreshes me too; I can kill them, not torture them.” Max Stirner
Uh, you tell me?
“Dear Sir, poor sir, brave sir." he read, "You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next - and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine. Some persons seem to like you, and others seem to hate you, and you must wonder why. They are simply liking machines and hating machines. You are pooped and demoralized," read Dwayne. "Why wouldn't you be? Of course it is exhausting, having to reason all the time in a universe which wasn't meant to be reasonable.” Kurt Vonnegut
Your Creator might contest this, of course.
“No one has free will until they are an adult, and by then the choices that were made for them, have already set them on a course that gives limited freedom in the choices to be made.” J.D. Stroube
See, I told you!
“Wheels have been set in motion, and they have their own pace, to which we are...condemned. Each move is dictated by the previous one - that is the meaning of order. If we start being arbitrary it'll just be a shambles: at least, let us hope so. Because if we happened, just happened to discover, or even suspect, that our spontaneity was part of their order, we'd know that we were lost. A Chinaman of the T'ang Dynasty - and, by which definition, a philosopher - dreamed he was a butterfly, and from that moment he was never quite sure that he was not a butterfly dreaming it was a Chinese philosopher. Envy him; his two-fold security. ” Tom Stoppard
A new thread?
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iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Do movies like this exist because this is the way high schools are or are high schools the way they are because movies like this exist? Sort of along the lines of Woody Allen’s, “life doesn’t imitate art, it imitates bad television.” And then into this increasingly sub-mental menagerie is thrown the rape of a 13-year-old girl.
Everyone complains about the extent to which school kids in America are so far down the list when it comes to language skills or math or science. But that is the least of it if this accurately portrays the mentality of our “youth”. So many of these kids are really nothing less than complete assholes.
Unfortunately, there are a bunch of stick figures here too. And they have speaking parts.
Speak
Melinda [voiceover]: The school board decided that Trojans didn’t send a strong message of abstinence. So we’ll now be the home of the Merryweather Hornets.
Better?
Cheerleader: What are we supposed to cheer? “We are the hornets, the horny horny hornets!”?
And in those skimpy outfits no less!
Melinda [voiceover]: All that crap you hear on TV about communication and expressing feelings is a lie. No one really cares what you have to say.
Heather: So here’s the plan. We join 5 clubs. One for every day of the week. Not like Latin club, but cool stuff. What do you wanna join? Hey, maybe we can tutor kids at the elementary school. What about your friends from last year? Don’t you know Nicole?
Melinda [voiceover]: I wonder how long it would take for anyone to notice if I just stopped talking.
Next up: I stop posting here.
Mr. Neck: My family has been in this country for over 200 years. We built this place. We fought in every war, from the first one to the last one, paid our taxes and voted. So tell me why my son can’t get a job?
[a number of students raise their hand but he ignores them]
Mr. Neck: Reverse discrimination. He wanted to be a firefighter. Went up for the job but he didn’t get it. What I’m suggesting here is maybe if we had closed our boarders in 1900 then real americans would get the jobs they deserved.
[the Native American student raises his hand but the teacher points to Heather]
Mr. Neck: Young lady.
Heather: Um, I think that we’re all foreigners and should just give the country back to the native americans.
Mr. Neck: Now we have a debate, don’t we? “Native Americans”?
Black student: Maybe your son didn’t get the job because he wasn’t good enough. Or maybe he’s lazy. Or maybe the other guy was just better than him.
Mr. Neck: Watch your mouth, mister. That’s my son you’re talking about. You know what? That’s enough debate. Everybody take out your book.
[Dave stands up to speak]
Mr. Neck: Mr. Petrakis, please take your seat.
David: If the class is debating then each student has the right to say what’s on his mind.
Mr. Neck: I decide who talks in here, Mr. Petrakis.
David: You opened a debate, you can’t close it just because it’s not going your way.
Mr. Neck: Watch me! Take your seat, Mr. Petrakis!
David: The constitution does not recognize different levels of citizenship based upon the time spent in the country. As a citizen and a student I’m protesting the tone of this lesson as racist, intolerant, and zenophobic.
Mr. Neck: Sit your butt in that chair, Mr Petrakis, and watch your mouth! I try to get this debate going and you people turn it into a “race” thing. Sit down, Mr. Petrakis, or you’re gonna go down to the principal’s office.
[Dave walks out of the room]
Melinda: [voiceover] Dave Petrakis is my new hero.
And the equivalent of that here? Just in case there is one?
Melinda [voiceover]: Heather has found a clan. The Marthas. Very Connecticut. Very prep. I suspect money changed hands. And then there’s me. I’m clanless.
In other words, before she became a vampire.
Hairwoman: Every word Hawthorne wrote, every comma, every paragraph break, these were done on purpose. It is our job to try and figure out what he’s really trying to say.
Melinda [voiceover]: Why couldn’t he just say what he meant? Would they pin a scarlet letter on his chest? “S” for straightforward?
Next up: meaning what you say.
Loudspeaker: Attention, Merryweather students. The final tally is in. Bees 35. Icebergs 17. Hilltoppers 6. Wombats 84. We will now be the home of the Merryweather Wombats.
Heather: What rhymes with wombats?
Let's think of something.
Heather: Once you get through this “life sucks” phase I’m sure lots of people will want to be your friend.
After all, look at all the friends I have here.
David: The suffragettes fought for their right to speak. They were attacked, arrested and thrown in jail for daring to do what they wanted to do. Like them, Melinda is willing to stand up for what she believes. That no one should be forced to give speeches.
Mr. Neck: What is this?
David: Melinda has to deliver her report to the class as part of the assignment. She made copies everyone can read.
Mr. Neck: Oh, no you don’t. When I say oral I mean oral. Now you sit down! And you Sordino read that report. Open your mouth Sordino. Open your damn mouth!
[Melinda remains silent]
Mr. Neck: I am so sick of your attitude.
[he drags her by the arm to the principal’s office]
Melinda [voiceover]: I forgot the suffragettes were hauled off to jail.
Here? Let's ban them!
Hairwoman: A revolutionary is only as good as his analysis. What does that mean?
[Melinda raises her hand]
Hairwoman: Melinda, better late than never. Why is a revolutionary only as good as his or her analysis?
Melinda: I think you should know what you stand for, not just what you’re against. You should be able to show how things can be better.
Perhaps she ought to run that by me.
Everyone complains about the extent to which school kids in America are so far down the list when it comes to language skills or math or science. But that is the least of it if this accurately portrays the mentality of our “youth”. So many of these kids are really nothing less than complete assholes.
Unfortunately, there are a bunch of stick figures here too. And they have speaking parts.
Speak
Melinda [voiceover]: The school board decided that Trojans didn’t send a strong message of abstinence. So we’ll now be the home of the Merryweather Hornets.
Better?
Cheerleader: What are we supposed to cheer? “We are the hornets, the horny horny hornets!”?
And in those skimpy outfits no less!
Melinda [voiceover]: All that crap you hear on TV about communication and expressing feelings is a lie. No one really cares what you have to say.
Heather: So here’s the plan. We join 5 clubs. One for every day of the week. Not like Latin club, but cool stuff. What do you wanna join? Hey, maybe we can tutor kids at the elementary school. What about your friends from last year? Don’t you know Nicole?
Melinda [voiceover]: I wonder how long it would take for anyone to notice if I just stopped talking.
Next up: I stop posting here.
Mr. Neck: My family has been in this country for over 200 years. We built this place. We fought in every war, from the first one to the last one, paid our taxes and voted. So tell me why my son can’t get a job?
[a number of students raise their hand but he ignores them]
Mr. Neck: Reverse discrimination. He wanted to be a firefighter. Went up for the job but he didn’t get it. What I’m suggesting here is maybe if we had closed our boarders in 1900 then real americans would get the jobs they deserved.
[the Native American student raises his hand but the teacher points to Heather]
Mr. Neck: Young lady.
Heather: Um, I think that we’re all foreigners and should just give the country back to the native americans.
Mr. Neck: Now we have a debate, don’t we? “Native Americans”?
Black student: Maybe your son didn’t get the job because he wasn’t good enough. Or maybe he’s lazy. Or maybe the other guy was just better than him.
Mr. Neck: Watch your mouth, mister. That’s my son you’re talking about. You know what? That’s enough debate. Everybody take out your book.
[Dave stands up to speak]
Mr. Neck: Mr. Petrakis, please take your seat.
David: If the class is debating then each student has the right to say what’s on his mind.
Mr. Neck: I decide who talks in here, Mr. Petrakis.
David: You opened a debate, you can’t close it just because it’s not going your way.
Mr. Neck: Watch me! Take your seat, Mr. Petrakis!
David: The constitution does not recognize different levels of citizenship based upon the time spent in the country. As a citizen and a student I’m protesting the tone of this lesson as racist, intolerant, and zenophobic.
Mr. Neck: Sit your butt in that chair, Mr Petrakis, and watch your mouth! I try to get this debate going and you people turn it into a “race” thing. Sit down, Mr. Petrakis, or you’re gonna go down to the principal’s office.
[Dave walks out of the room]
Melinda: [voiceover] Dave Petrakis is my new hero.
And the equivalent of that here? Just in case there is one?
Melinda [voiceover]: Heather has found a clan. The Marthas. Very Connecticut. Very prep. I suspect money changed hands. And then there’s me. I’m clanless.
In other words, before she became a vampire.
Hairwoman: Every word Hawthorne wrote, every comma, every paragraph break, these were done on purpose. It is our job to try and figure out what he’s really trying to say.
Melinda [voiceover]: Why couldn’t he just say what he meant? Would they pin a scarlet letter on his chest? “S” for straightforward?
Next up: meaning what you say.
Loudspeaker: Attention, Merryweather students. The final tally is in. Bees 35. Icebergs 17. Hilltoppers 6. Wombats 84. We will now be the home of the Merryweather Wombats.
Heather: What rhymes with wombats?
Let's think of something.
Heather: Once you get through this “life sucks” phase I’m sure lots of people will want to be your friend.
After all, look at all the friends I have here.
David: The suffragettes fought for their right to speak. They were attacked, arrested and thrown in jail for daring to do what they wanted to do. Like them, Melinda is willing to stand up for what she believes. That no one should be forced to give speeches.
Mr. Neck: What is this?
David: Melinda has to deliver her report to the class as part of the assignment. She made copies everyone can read.
Mr. Neck: Oh, no you don’t. When I say oral I mean oral. Now you sit down! And you Sordino read that report. Open your mouth Sordino. Open your damn mouth!
[Melinda remains silent]
Mr. Neck: I am so sick of your attitude.
[he drags her by the arm to the principal’s office]
Melinda [voiceover]: I forgot the suffragettes were hauled off to jail.
Here? Let's ban them!
Hairwoman: A revolutionary is only as good as his analysis. What does that mean?
[Melinda raises her hand]
Hairwoman: Melinda, better late than never. Why is a revolutionary only as good as his or her analysis?
Melinda: I think you should know what you stand for, not just what you’re against. You should be able to show how things can be better.
Perhaps she ought to run that by me.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA!
Everything was political back then. Much like today. No matter how badly bungled.
And Murphy’s Law might have been thought up here.
But underneath it all lies the guy’s motive: heartfelt and…surreal.
We get ourselves into predicaments way, way beyond explaining to others. Even to the point it gets way, way beyond explaining to ourselves. Sure, you can just call the guy a loser but that might say more about you than it does about him. Though he sure as hell isn’t one of the winners here.
Dog Day Afternoon
Sonny [to head teller]: Cheer up, you’ll be the veteran of a robbery. The bank sends you a dozen red roses, you know that?
True?
Sonny: Sal, I’m sorry about this. But we can get outta this thing. There’s a way outta this.
Sal: Are you serious? About throwin’ a body outta here if we have to?
Sonny: Well, I stalled him for a while. When it comes the time, then we’ll work it out. Okay?
Sal: But do you mean it?
Sonny: I want him to think that.
Sal: But I want to know what you think.
Sonny: We won’t have to.
Sal: I’ll tell you right now that I’m ready to do it.
What might have been, let's say.
Sheldon: Why didn’t you just wait and try to take 'em out there in the street?
Moretti: I made an error in judgment. I thought the sons of bitches would be overwhelmed with remorse at the sight of a police officer.
After the fire, this was the real fuck up here. But had he waited you wouldn’t be reading this, would you?
Sonny: Kiss me.
Moretti: What?
Sonny: Kiss me. When I’m being fucked, I like to get kissed on the mouth.
I forget: did he?
Sonny [to Moretti]: What’s he doing?
Moretti [to approaching cop]: Get back there man!
Sonny: He wants to kill me so bad he can taste it! Huh? ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA!
[Yells it too cheering crowd]
Sonny: ATTICA! ATTICA! REMEMBER ATTICA!
Someone did: https://youtu.be/h_vFMU8HiZc?si=67fWF45I8NujkUd-
TV newsman: Why are you doing this?
Sonny: Doing what?
TV newsman: Robbing a bank.
Sonny: Why? I don’t know what you mean by that. I’m robbing a bank because they got money here. That’s why I’m robbing it.
TV newsman: No, what I mean is why do you feel you have to steal for money? Couldn’t you get a job?
Sonny: Uh, no. Doing what? You know if you want a job you’ve got to be a member of a union. See, and if you got no union card you don’t get a job.
TV newsman: What about non-union occupations?
Sonny: What’s wrong with this guy? What do you mean non-union, like what? A bank teller? You know how much a bank teller makes a week?
Head teller: Not much.
Sonny: A hundred and fifteen to start, right? How are you going to live on that? I got a wife and a couple of kids, how am I going to live on that?
Of course, capitalism was bound to come in here sooner or later.
Everything was political back then. Much like today. No matter how badly bungled.
And Murphy’s Law might have been thought up here.
But underneath it all lies the guy’s motive: heartfelt and…surreal.
We get ourselves into predicaments way, way beyond explaining to others. Even to the point it gets way, way beyond explaining to ourselves. Sure, you can just call the guy a loser but that might say more about you than it does about him. Though he sure as hell isn’t one of the winners here.
Dog Day Afternoon
Sonny [to head teller]: Cheer up, you’ll be the veteran of a robbery. The bank sends you a dozen red roses, you know that?
True?
Sonny: Sal, I’m sorry about this. But we can get outta this thing. There’s a way outta this.
Sal: Are you serious? About throwin’ a body outta here if we have to?
Sonny: Well, I stalled him for a while. When it comes the time, then we’ll work it out. Okay?
Sal: But do you mean it?
Sonny: I want him to think that.
Sal: But I want to know what you think.
Sonny: We won’t have to.
Sal: I’ll tell you right now that I’m ready to do it.
What might have been, let's say.
Sheldon: Why didn’t you just wait and try to take 'em out there in the street?
Moretti: I made an error in judgment. I thought the sons of bitches would be overwhelmed with remorse at the sight of a police officer.
After the fire, this was the real fuck up here. But had he waited you wouldn’t be reading this, would you?
Sonny: Kiss me.
Moretti: What?
Sonny: Kiss me. When I’m being fucked, I like to get kissed on the mouth.
I forget: did he?
Sonny [to Moretti]: What’s he doing?
Moretti [to approaching cop]: Get back there man!
Sonny: He wants to kill me so bad he can taste it! Huh? ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA! ATTICA!
[Yells it too cheering crowd]
Sonny: ATTICA! ATTICA! REMEMBER ATTICA!
Someone did: https://youtu.be/h_vFMU8HiZc?si=67fWF45I8NujkUd-
TV newsman: Why are you doing this?
Sonny: Doing what?
TV newsman: Robbing a bank.
Sonny: Why? I don’t know what you mean by that. I’m robbing a bank because they got money here. That’s why I’m robbing it.
TV newsman: No, what I mean is why do you feel you have to steal for money? Couldn’t you get a job?
Sonny: Uh, no. Doing what? You know if you want a job you’ve got to be a member of a union. See, and if you got no union card you don’t get a job.
TV newsman: What about non-union occupations?
Sonny: What’s wrong with this guy? What do you mean non-union, like what? A bank teller? You know how much a bank teller makes a week?
Head teller: Not much.
Sonny: A hundred and fifteen to start, right? How are you going to live on that? I got a wife and a couple of kids, how am I going to live on that?
Of course, capitalism was bound to come in here sooner or later.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Lyrics
Stephen Stills
Four and twenty years ago, I come into this life,
the son of a woman and a man who lived in strife.
He was tired of being poor and he wasn't into selling door to door
and he worked like the devil to be more.
A different kind of poverty now upsets me so.
Night after sleepless night, I walk the floor and I want to know- why am I so alone?
Where is my woman can I bring her home? Have I driven her away? Is she gone?
Morning comes to sunrise and I'm driven to my bed.
I see that it is empty and there's devils in my head.
I embrace the many colored beast. I grow weary of the torment, can there be no peace?
And I find myself just wishing that my life would simply cease
Now he is 9 and 70 years old. Time for the sequel?
Bob Dylan
I see people in the park forgettin’ their troubles and woes
They’re drinkin’ and dancin’, wearin’ bright colored clothes
All the young men, with the young women lookin’ so good
Well, I’d trade places with any of 'em in a minute, if I could.
Bob, he's now 2 and 80 years old.
Leonard Cohen
God is alive, magic is afoot
God is alive, magic is afoot
God is alive, magic is afoot
God is afoot, magic is alive
Alive is afoot, magic never died
God never sickened
Many poor men lied
Many sick men lied
Magic never weakened
Magic never hid
Magic always ruled
God is afoot, God never died
God was ruler
Though his funeral lengthened
Though his mourners thickened
Magic never fled
Though his shrouds were hoisted
The naked God did live
Though his words were twisted
The naked magic thrived
Though his death was published
Round and round the world
The heart did not believe
Many hurt men wondered
Many struck men bled
Magic never faltered
Magic always lead
Many stones were rolled
But God would not lie down
Many wild men lied
Many fat men listened
Though they offered stones
Magic still was fed
Though they locked their coffers
God was always served
Magic is afoot, God is alive
Alive is afoot
Alive is in command
Many weak men hungered
Many strong men thrived
Though they boast of solitude
God was at their side
Nor the captain on the hill
Magic is alive
Though his death was pardoned
Round and round the world
The heart would not believe
Though laws were carved in marble
They could not shelter men
Though altars built in parliaments
They could not order men
Police arrested magic and
magic went with them
Mmmmm… for magic loves the hungry
But magic would not tarry
It moves from arm to arm
It would not stay with them
Magic is afoot
It cannot come to harm
It rests in an empty palm
It spawns in an empty mind
But magic is no instrument
Magic is the end
Many men drove magic
But magic stayed behind
Many strong men lied
They only passed through magic
And out the other side
Many weak men lied
They came to God in secret
And though they left Him nourished
They would not tell who healed
Though mountains danced before them
They said that God was dead
Though his shrouds were hoisted
The naked God did live
This I mean to whisper to my mind
This I mean to laugh within my mind
This I mean my mind to serve
Til’ service is but magic
Moving through the world
And mind itself is magic
Coursing through the flesh
And flesh itself is magic
Dancing on a clock
And time itself
The magic length of God
Let's run this by IC.
Donovon
I went up for my interview on the fourth day of July.
First old man he questioned me until I nearly cried,
Made me fill in forms until I shook with fear
About the colour of my toilet roll and if my cousin’s queer.
Here’s your goldwatch and the shackles for your chain
And your piece of paper to say you left here sane.
And if you’ve a son who wants a good career
Just get him to sign on the dotted line and work for fifty
years.
He asked me how many jobs I’d had before.
He nearly had a heart attack when I answered, four.
Four jobs in twenty years, oh, this can never be
We only take on men who work until they die.
He took me outside to where the gravestones stand in line.
This is where we bury them in quick-stone and in lime
And if you come to work for us on this you must agree,
That if you’re going to die please do it during tea.
This story that you heard you may think rather queer
But it is the truth you’ll be surprised to hear.
I did not want no job upon the board,
I just wanted to take a broom and sweep the bloody floor.
But only until, say, the workers of the world unite?
David Bowie
And my brother's back at home with his Beatles and his Stones
We never got it off on that revolution stuff
What a drag
Too many snags
And more coming all the time.
Bob Dylan
And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only.
Or, rather, what's left of it?
Stephen Stills
Four and twenty years ago, I come into this life,
the son of a woman and a man who lived in strife.
He was tired of being poor and he wasn't into selling door to door
and he worked like the devil to be more.
A different kind of poverty now upsets me so.
Night after sleepless night, I walk the floor and I want to know- why am I so alone?
Where is my woman can I bring her home? Have I driven her away? Is she gone?
Morning comes to sunrise and I'm driven to my bed.
I see that it is empty and there's devils in my head.
I embrace the many colored beast. I grow weary of the torment, can there be no peace?
And I find myself just wishing that my life would simply cease
Now he is 9 and 70 years old. Time for the sequel?
Bob Dylan
I see people in the park forgettin’ their troubles and woes
They’re drinkin’ and dancin’, wearin’ bright colored clothes
All the young men, with the young women lookin’ so good
Well, I’d trade places with any of 'em in a minute, if I could.
Bob, he's now 2 and 80 years old.
Leonard Cohen
God is alive, magic is afoot
God is alive, magic is afoot
God is alive, magic is afoot
God is afoot, magic is alive
Alive is afoot, magic never died
God never sickened
Many poor men lied
Many sick men lied
Magic never weakened
Magic never hid
Magic always ruled
God is afoot, God never died
God was ruler
Though his funeral lengthened
Though his mourners thickened
Magic never fled
Though his shrouds were hoisted
The naked God did live
Though his words were twisted
The naked magic thrived
Though his death was published
Round and round the world
The heart did not believe
Many hurt men wondered
Many struck men bled
Magic never faltered
Magic always lead
Many stones were rolled
But God would not lie down
Many wild men lied
Many fat men listened
Though they offered stones
Magic still was fed
Though they locked their coffers
God was always served
Magic is afoot, God is alive
Alive is afoot
Alive is in command
Many weak men hungered
Many strong men thrived
Though they boast of solitude
God was at their side
Nor the captain on the hill
Magic is alive
Though his death was pardoned
Round and round the world
The heart would not believe
Though laws were carved in marble
They could not shelter men
Though altars built in parliaments
They could not order men
Police arrested magic and
magic went with them
Mmmmm… for magic loves the hungry
But magic would not tarry
It moves from arm to arm
It would not stay with them
Magic is afoot
It cannot come to harm
It rests in an empty palm
It spawns in an empty mind
But magic is no instrument
Magic is the end
Many men drove magic
But magic stayed behind
Many strong men lied
They only passed through magic
And out the other side
Many weak men lied
They came to God in secret
And though they left Him nourished
They would not tell who healed
Though mountains danced before them
They said that God was dead
Though his shrouds were hoisted
The naked God did live
This I mean to whisper to my mind
This I mean to laugh within my mind
This I mean my mind to serve
Til’ service is but magic
Moving through the world
And mind itself is magic
Coursing through the flesh
And flesh itself is magic
Dancing on a clock
And time itself
The magic length of God
Let's run this by IC.
Donovon
I went up for my interview on the fourth day of July.
First old man he questioned me until I nearly cried,
Made me fill in forms until I shook with fear
About the colour of my toilet roll and if my cousin’s queer.
Here’s your goldwatch and the shackles for your chain
And your piece of paper to say you left here sane.
And if you’ve a son who wants a good career
Just get him to sign on the dotted line and work for fifty
years.
He asked me how many jobs I’d had before.
He nearly had a heart attack when I answered, four.
Four jobs in twenty years, oh, this can never be
We only take on men who work until they die.
He took me outside to where the gravestones stand in line.
This is where we bury them in quick-stone and in lime
And if you come to work for us on this you must agree,
That if you’re going to die please do it during tea.
This story that you heard you may think rather queer
But it is the truth you’ll be surprised to hear.
I did not want no job upon the board,
I just wanted to take a broom and sweep the bloody floor.
But only until, say, the workers of the world unite?
David Bowie
And my brother's back at home with his Beatles and his Stones
We never got it off on that revolution stuff
What a drag
Too many snags
And more coming all the time.
Bob Dylan
And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only.
Or, rather, what's left of it?
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Dog Day Afternoon
Sal: …if you’re talking about coppin’ a plea, I’m tellin’ you right now, there’s no deal. I’m never going back to prison. We got our own deal already. Do you remember the pact we made? You and me and Jackie - that night in the bar? We were talkin’ about if we get trapped in the bank, what are you gonna do…right? What did we say? What did we say!
Sonny: That we’d kill ourselves.
Sal: Does that still go?
Sonny: We’re not there yet.
Of course, we know how that turns out.
Sonny: Wait a minute. We’ve been looking at this all wrong. Let’s look at it the other way. Look, we gotta get a jet outta here…outta the country. We gotta get a helicopter. Okay, Sal? We get a helicopter on the roof to take us to the jet and we fly to the sunny Caribbean. Algeria. We got to look at the bright side. We got 'em by the balls, we got the hostages, we can get anything we want. They gotta give it to us. I’m flying to the tropics. Fuck the snow!
Of course, we know how that turns out.
Sonny: Is there any special country you wanna go to?
Sal: Wyoming.
Okay, but which one?
Leon: I couldn’t explain why I did the things I did. So I went to this psychiatrist who explained to me I was a woman in a man’s body. So Sonny right away wanted to get me money for a sex change operation: but where was he to get that? 2500 dollars! My God, he’s in hock up to his ears already.
Let's run that by the Nazis here.
Television newsman: Phone calls have arrived from various factions of the gay community. Some in full support of Sonny and his actions, others totally condemning the present events and calling the marriage a farce, and, quote “A case of sheer exhibitionism” end quote.
Let's run that by the Nazis here.
Sal: Sonny? You hear that?
Sonny: What?
Sal: They keep sayin’ two homosexuals. I am not a homosexual. I want you to stop them saying that.
Sonny: What difference does it make. Let them say what they want.
Sal: I’m not a homosexual. Tell them to get that right. That’s going out on the TV.
Sonny: Sal, what am I supposed to do. I can’t control what they say on television. Look, Sal…forget about it. It’s a freak show to them. That’s all they’re interested in. I can’t control it.
Turns out that no one can.
Sal: …if you’re talking about coppin’ a plea, I’m tellin’ you right now, there’s no deal. I’m never going back to prison. We got our own deal already. Do you remember the pact we made? You and me and Jackie - that night in the bar? We were talkin’ about if we get trapped in the bank, what are you gonna do…right? What did we say? What did we say!
Sonny: That we’d kill ourselves.
Sal: Does that still go?
Sonny: We’re not there yet.
Of course, we know how that turns out.
Sonny: Wait a minute. We’ve been looking at this all wrong. Let’s look at it the other way. Look, we gotta get a jet outta here…outta the country. We gotta get a helicopter. Okay, Sal? We get a helicopter on the roof to take us to the jet and we fly to the sunny Caribbean. Algeria. We got to look at the bright side. We got 'em by the balls, we got the hostages, we can get anything we want. They gotta give it to us. I’m flying to the tropics. Fuck the snow!
Of course, we know how that turns out.
Sonny: Is there any special country you wanna go to?
Sal: Wyoming.
Okay, but which one?
Leon: I couldn’t explain why I did the things I did. So I went to this psychiatrist who explained to me I was a woman in a man’s body. So Sonny right away wanted to get me money for a sex change operation: but where was he to get that? 2500 dollars! My God, he’s in hock up to his ears already.
Let's run that by the Nazis here.
Television newsman: Phone calls have arrived from various factions of the gay community. Some in full support of Sonny and his actions, others totally condemning the present events and calling the marriage a farce, and, quote “A case of sheer exhibitionism” end quote.
Let's run that by the Nazis here.
Sal: Sonny? You hear that?
Sonny: What?
Sal: They keep sayin’ two homosexuals. I am not a homosexual. I want you to stop them saying that.
Sonny: What difference does it make. Let them say what they want.
Sal: I’m not a homosexual. Tell them to get that right. That’s going out on the TV.
Sonny: Sal, what am I supposed to do. I can’t control what they say on television. Look, Sal…forget about it. It’s a freak show to them. That’s all they’re interested in. I can’t control it.
Turns out that no one can.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Logic
“When a man in a forest thinks he is going forward in a straight line, in reality he is going in a circle, I did my best to go in a circle, hoping to go in a straight line.” Samuel Beckett
On the other hand, dead is dead.
“Logic is what the devil likes most.” Kelly Braffet
If either one of them actually does exist?
“When people attempt to rebel against the iron logic of Nature, they come into conflict with the very same principles to which they owe their existence as human beings. Their actions against Nature must lead to their own downfall.” Adolf Hitler
Let's run that by these folks: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora
“A singer can shatter glass with the proper high note," he said, "but the simplest way to break glass is simply to drop it on the floor.” Anne Rice
Just in case that hadn't occurred to some.
“When once your point of view is changed, the very thing which was so damning becomes a clue to the truth.” Arthur Conan Doyle
His truth one suspects.
“We can't avoid reasoning; we can only avoid doing it well.” Peter Kreeft
Let's name names.
“When a man in a forest thinks he is going forward in a straight line, in reality he is going in a circle, I did my best to go in a circle, hoping to go in a straight line.” Samuel Beckett
On the other hand, dead is dead.
“Logic is what the devil likes most.” Kelly Braffet
If either one of them actually does exist?
“When people attempt to rebel against the iron logic of Nature, they come into conflict with the very same principles to which they owe their existence as human beings. Their actions against Nature must lead to their own downfall.” Adolf Hitler
Let's run that by these folks: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora
“A singer can shatter glass with the proper high note," he said, "but the simplest way to break glass is simply to drop it on the floor.” Anne Rice
Just in case that hadn't occurred to some.
“When once your point of view is changed, the very thing which was so damning becomes a clue to the truth.” Arthur Conan Doyle
His truth one suspects.
“We can't avoid reasoning; we can only avoid doing it well.” Peter Kreeft
Let's name names.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Dog Day Afternoon
Sonny: You’d like to kill me? Bet you would.
Sheldon: I wouldn’t like to kill you. I will if I have to.
Sonny: It’s your job, right? You know the guy who kills me…I hope he does it because he hates my guts, not because it’s his job.
Good point?
Sal [pointing a gun at Sheldon]: Tell the TV to stop saying there’s 2 homosexuals in here.
Sheldon: I will, Sal.
Wink, wink.
Sheldon: You handled yourself real well, Sonny. A lot of men would’ve choked, and we might have had a death or a multiple death on our hands. But you handled it. I respect that. Now don’t you try to take Sal. We’ll handle him. Just sit tight and you won’t get hurt.
[Sheldon turns to walk away]
Sonny: Wait a minute… What are you talking about?
Sheldon: You just sit quiet. We’ll handle Sal.
[Sheldon leaves]
Sonny: Do you think I’d sell him out? You fuck!
They handle Sal.
Sonny: [talking to Sal, waiting for his wife to answer the phone] You know I can call anybody, they’d put it on the phone? The Pope, an astronaut, the wisest of the wise…Who do I have to call?
The Missus?
Mulvaney: Ladies…I want to apologize for my use of language back there.
Sylvia: What’d you say? I didn’t hear you say anything.
Jenny: He said the ‘F’ word.
Margaret: What?
Jenny: The ‘F’ word. He did. He said the ‘F’ word.
Miriam [to Margaret]: Fuck.
Margaret: I know Miriam!
Edna: Well, I’m a Christian and my ears are not garbage cans.
[the younger girls burst out laughing]
And the younger girls today?
FBI agent: Sal, keep the gun pointed up, okay?
Let's just say that Sal is easily fooled.
Sonny: Don’t shoot me.
The rest is history: https://allthatsinteresting.com/john-wojtowicz
Sonny: You’d like to kill me? Bet you would.
Sheldon: I wouldn’t like to kill you. I will if I have to.
Sonny: It’s your job, right? You know the guy who kills me…I hope he does it because he hates my guts, not because it’s his job.
Good point?
Sal [pointing a gun at Sheldon]: Tell the TV to stop saying there’s 2 homosexuals in here.
Sheldon: I will, Sal.
Wink, wink.
Sheldon: You handled yourself real well, Sonny. A lot of men would’ve choked, and we might have had a death or a multiple death on our hands. But you handled it. I respect that. Now don’t you try to take Sal. We’ll handle him. Just sit tight and you won’t get hurt.
[Sheldon turns to walk away]
Sonny: Wait a minute… What are you talking about?
Sheldon: You just sit quiet. We’ll handle Sal.
[Sheldon leaves]
Sonny: Do you think I’d sell him out? You fuck!
They handle Sal.
Sonny: [talking to Sal, waiting for his wife to answer the phone] You know I can call anybody, they’d put it on the phone? The Pope, an astronaut, the wisest of the wise…Who do I have to call?
The Missus?
Mulvaney: Ladies…I want to apologize for my use of language back there.
Sylvia: What’d you say? I didn’t hear you say anything.
Jenny: He said the ‘F’ word.
Margaret: What?
Jenny: The ‘F’ word. He did. He said the ‘F’ word.
Miriam [to Margaret]: Fuck.
Margaret: I know Miriam!
Edna: Well, I’m a Christian and my ears are not garbage cans.
[the younger girls burst out laughing]
And the younger girls today?
FBI agent: Sal, keep the gun pointed up, okay?
Let's just say that Sal is easily fooled.
Sonny: Don’t shoot me.
The rest is history: https://allthatsinteresting.com/john-wojtowicz
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Epistemology
"From a certain degree of freedom, understanding is impossible." Sebastián Wortys
In other words, the more we come to know, the more we come to know, in turn, that we do not know. Trust me though: some things considerably more than others.
"Who cannot be understood cannot be controlled." Sebastián Wortys
Fry 'em?
“The reality is; there is something which exist but what that something is; remains a question. Either because we are not capable to reveal it yet or because with time and movement it changes itself and has no truth in it. But what’s the reason for its existence without having or revealing any truth, that’s the evidence we need to find.” Zaman Ali
My guess: you won't find it here.
“Whatever is known has always seemed systematic, proven, applicable, and evident to the knower. Every alien system of knowledge has likewise seemed contradictory, unproven, inapplicable, fanciful, or mystical. May not the time have come to assume a less egocentric, more general point of view and to speak of comparative epistemology?” Ludwik Fleck
Yo, Veritas Aequitas! You're up!!
“It ain't the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so.” Josh Billings
You first?
“I say “I am free”, but what I really mean is “I feel free”;
I say “I am unfortunate”, but what I really mean is “I feel unfortunate”;
I say “I am powerful”, but what I really mean is “I feel powerful”;
I say “the World” , but what I really mean is “my world within the World”.
What “I am” will always be a mystery to me.” Giannis Delimitsos
Let's run this by the Stooges.
"From a certain degree of freedom, understanding is impossible." Sebastián Wortys
In other words, the more we come to know, the more we come to know, in turn, that we do not know. Trust me though: some things considerably more than others.
"Who cannot be understood cannot be controlled." Sebastián Wortys
Fry 'em?
“The reality is; there is something which exist but what that something is; remains a question. Either because we are not capable to reveal it yet or because with time and movement it changes itself and has no truth in it. But what’s the reason for its existence without having or revealing any truth, that’s the evidence we need to find.” Zaman Ali
My guess: you won't find it here.
“Whatever is known has always seemed systematic, proven, applicable, and evident to the knower. Every alien system of knowledge has likewise seemed contradictory, unproven, inapplicable, fanciful, or mystical. May not the time have come to assume a less egocentric, more general point of view and to speak of comparative epistemology?” Ludwik Fleck
Yo, Veritas Aequitas! You're up!!
“It ain't the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so.” Josh Billings
You first?
“I say “I am free”, but what I really mean is “I feel free”;
I say “I am unfortunate”, but what I really mean is “I feel unfortunate”;
I say “I am powerful”, but what I really mean is “I feel powerful”;
I say “the World” , but what I really mean is “my world within the World”.
What “I am” will always be a mystery to me.” Giannis Delimitsos
Let's run this by the Stooges.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Forty years later and nothing like this has happened yet where I reside. On the other hand, Big Brother here is anything but a myth. The MAGA "populists", for example.
1984 is often linked to Communism. But it can just as easily be linked to fascism. To any authoritarian and/or totalitarian ideology.
It’s a world whereby if it can’t be expressed in percentages it might as well not even exist. A world where all are equal but those in the Inner Party are ten times as equal as everyone else. And then the O’Briens: hundreds of times as equal.
And aside from Asian POWs captured at the “Eastasian front” this is an entirely white society.
See if you can spot the parts that Wilhelm Reich could have written himself.
Maybe it’s just me but The Leader here bears a striking resemblance to Martin Heidegger. At least the one on the television screen.
1984
Title card: “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”
After death and taxes, a sure thing?
Winston [voiceover]: Thoughtcrime is death. Thoughtcrime does not entail death. Thoughtcrime IS death. I have committed even before setting pen to paper the essential crime that contains all others unto itself.
By all means: the equivalent of that here.
Winston: [voiceover] April the 4th, 1984. To the past, or to the future. To an age when thought is free. From the Age of Big Brother, from the Age of the Thought Police, from a dead man…greetings.
I hear that. How about you, Mr. "my way or the highway" Objectivist?
Winston: How’s the Newspeak Committee?
Syme: Working overtime. Plusbig waste is in adjectives. Plusbig waste is timing the language to scientific advance.
Winston: Yes.
Syme: It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. You wouldn’t have seen the Dictionary 10th edition, would you Smith? It’s that thick.
[illustrates thickness with fingers]
Syme [narrowing fingers]: The 11th Edition will be that thick.
Winston: So, The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect?
Syme: The secret is to move from translation, to direct thought, to automatic response. No need for self-discipline. Language coming from here [the larynx] not from here [the brain].
And, of course, mile after mile of clouds.
Winston [reciting poem]: “Under the spreading chestnut tree / I sold you / You sold me.”
And cheap to boot.
Winston: Look, I hate purity. I hate goodness. I don’t want virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone corrupt.
Julia: I ought to suit you, then. I’m corrupt to the core.
In and out of bed.
1984 is often linked to Communism. But it can just as easily be linked to fascism. To any authoritarian and/or totalitarian ideology.
It’s a world whereby if it can’t be expressed in percentages it might as well not even exist. A world where all are equal but those in the Inner Party are ten times as equal as everyone else. And then the O’Briens: hundreds of times as equal.
And aside from Asian POWs captured at the “Eastasian front” this is an entirely white society.
See if you can spot the parts that Wilhelm Reich could have written himself.
Maybe it’s just me but The Leader here bears a striking resemblance to Martin Heidegger. At least the one on the television screen.
1984
Title card: “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”
After death and taxes, a sure thing?
Winston [voiceover]: Thoughtcrime is death. Thoughtcrime does not entail death. Thoughtcrime IS death. I have committed even before setting pen to paper the essential crime that contains all others unto itself.
By all means: the equivalent of that here.
Winston: [voiceover] April the 4th, 1984. To the past, or to the future. To an age when thought is free. From the Age of Big Brother, from the Age of the Thought Police, from a dead man…greetings.
I hear that. How about you, Mr. "my way or the highway" Objectivist?
Winston: How’s the Newspeak Committee?
Syme: Working overtime. Plusbig waste is in adjectives. Plusbig waste is timing the language to scientific advance.
Winston: Yes.
Syme: It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. You wouldn’t have seen the Dictionary 10th edition, would you Smith? It’s that thick.
[illustrates thickness with fingers]
Syme [narrowing fingers]: The 11th Edition will be that thick.
Winston: So, The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect?
Syme: The secret is to move from translation, to direct thought, to automatic response. No need for self-discipline. Language coming from here [the larynx] not from here [the brain].
And, of course, mile after mile of clouds.
Winston [reciting poem]: “Under the spreading chestnut tree / I sold you / You sold me.”
And cheap to boot.
Winston: Look, I hate purity. I hate goodness. I don’t want virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone corrupt.
Julia: I ought to suit you, then. I’m corrupt to the core.
In and out of bed.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
1984
Speaker: I just want to finish by saying a few words about the impact of this imminent neurological breakthrough. When the orgasm has been finally eradicated the last remaining obstacle to the psychological acceptance…The introduction of artsem, combined with the neutralization of the orgasm will effectively render obsolete the family until it becomes impossible to conceptualize.
Come again?
Winston: If they can make me change my feelings they can stop me from loving you. That will be real betrayal.
Julia: They can’t do that. It’s the one thing they can’t do. They can torture you and make you say anything. But they can’t make you believe it. They can’t get inside you. They can’t get to your heart.
We’ll see about that.
O’Brien: There are thought criminals who maintain that the resistance is not real. Believe me, Winston, it is very real. Perhaps you are not familiar with how it operates.
Winston: I am attentive to the news.
O’Brien: Indeed. Then perhaps you imagine a huge network of conspirators prepared to commit any atrocity to weaken and demoralize the order of our society. The reality is infinitely more subtle. If Goldstein himself fell into the hands of the Thought Police, he could not give them a list of his agents. Such a list does not exist. They are not an organization in the sense we know. Nothing holds it together but an idea. Individually, they cheat, forge, blackmail, corrupt children, spread disease and prostitution, in the name of spreading knowledge from generation to generation, until…in a thousand years…
Heads they win, tails we lose.
Winston: [reads from Goldstein’s book] “In accordance to the principles of Doublethink, it does not matter if the war is not real, or when it is, that victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous. The essential act of modern warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labor. A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. In principle, the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects. And its object is not victory over Eurasia or Eastasia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.”
This is the role of the military industrial complex with respect to foreign and domestic policy here in America. Let's call it the deep state.
Winston: Parsons.
Parsons: Keep away from me, Smith. I’m an agent of Goldstein. I didn’t even know it myself. Thoughtcrime is so insidious. It just creeps up on you. My daughter found it out. Very proud of her. Very grateful I’ve been discovered before it’s too late. They won’t shoot me, will they, Smith? I know I could be very useful in a labor camp.
Next!
Winston: They got you too?
O’Brien: They got me a long time ago.
So, who has you?
Speaker: I just want to finish by saying a few words about the impact of this imminent neurological breakthrough. When the orgasm has been finally eradicated the last remaining obstacle to the psychological acceptance…The introduction of artsem, combined with the neutralization of the orgasm will effectively render obsolete the family until it becomes impossible to conceptualize.
Come again?
Winston: If they can make me change my feelings they can stop me from loving you. That will be real betrayal.
Julia: They can’t do that. It’s the one thing they can’t do. They can torture you and make you say anything. But they can’t make you believe it. They can’t get inside you. They can’t get to your heart.
We’ll see about that.
O’Brien: There are thought criminals who maintain that the resistance is not real. Believe me, Winston, it is very real. Perhaps you are not familiar with how it operates.
Winston: I am attentive to the news.
O’Brien: Indeed. Then perhaps you imagine a huge network of conspirators prepared to commit any atrocity to weaken and demoralize the order of our society. The reality is infinitely more subtle. If Goldstein himself fell into the hands of the Thought Police, he could not give them a list of his agents. Such a list does not exist. They are not an organization in the sense we know. Nothing holds it together but an idea. Individually, they cheat, forge, blackmail, corrupt children, spread disease and prostitution, in the name of spreading knowledge from generation to generation, until…in a thousand years…
Heads they win, tails we lose.
Winston: [reads from Goldstein’s book] “In accordance to the principles of Doublethink, it does not matter if the war is not real, or when it is, that victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous. The essential act of modern warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labor. A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. In principle, the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects. And its object is not victory over Eurasia or Eastasia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.”
This is the role of the military industrial complex with respect to foreign and domestic policy here in America. Let's call it the deep state.
Winston: Parsons.
Parsons: Keep away from me, Smith. I’m an agent of Goldstein. I didn’t even know it myself. Thoughtcrime is so insidious. It just creeps up on you. My daughter found it out. Very proud of her. Very grateful I’ve been discovered before it’s too late. They won’t shoot me, will they, Smith? I know I could be very useful in a labor camp.
Next!
Winston: They got you too?
O’Brien: They got me a long time ago.
So, who has you?
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iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
1984
O’Brien: Shall I tell you why we brought you here? To cure you. To make you sane. That was 40. You can see that the numbers on this dial run up to 100. Will you please remember that, during our conversation? I have it in my power to inflict pain on you at any time…and in whatever degree I choose.
Might makes right, let's say.
O’Brien: How many fingers, please?
Winston: Four. What else could I say? Five, or anything you like. Will you please stop it? Stop the pain…How can I help it? How can I help what I see in front of my eyes? Two and two makes four.
O’Brien: Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five, sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once.
Let's run this by Anton Chigurh.
O’Brien: Neither the past, nor the present, nor the future exists in its own right. Reality is in the human mind… not in the individual mind…which makes mistakes and soon perishes…but in the mind of the Party…which is collective and immortal.
Sound familiar, Mr. Objectivist?
O’Brien: How many fingers, Winston?
Winston [in agony]: Four. Four, I suppose there are four. I tried to see five. I wish I could.
O’Brien: Which do you wish? To persuade me that you can see five, or really to see them?
Winston: Really to see them.
How many did you see?
O’Brien: We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us. As long as he resists us, we never destroy him. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. We make his brain perfect before we blow it out. And then when there is nothing left but sorrow and love of Big Brother we shall lift you clean out of history. We shall turn you into gas and pour you into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you. Not a name in a register. Not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past, as well as in the future.
Bummer.
Winston: Does Big Brother even exist?
O’Brien: Of course he exists.
Winston: No, I mean… does he exist like you or me?
O’Brien: You do not exist.
If you get his drift. Though it's not like you have much choice.
O’Brien: Shall I tell you why we brought you here? To cure you. To make you sane. That was 40. You can see that the numbers on this dial run up to 100. Will you please remember that, during our conversation? I have it in my power to inflict pain on you at any time…and in whatever degree I choose.
Might makes right, let's say.
O’Brien: How many fingers, please?
Winston: Four. What else could I say? Five, or anything you like. Will you please stop it? Stop the pain…How can I help it? How can I help what I see in front of my eyes? Two and two makes four.
O’Brien: Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five, sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once.
Let's run this by Anton Chigurh.
O’Brien: Neither the past, nor the present, nor the future exists in its own right. Reality is in the human mind… not in the individual mind…which makes mistakes and soon perishes…but in the mind of the Party…which is collective and immortal.
Sound familiar, Mr. Objectivist?
O’Brien: How many fingers, Winston?
Winston [in agony]: Four. Four, I suppose there are four. I tried to see five. I wish I could.
O’Brien: Which do you wish? To persuade me that you can see five, or really to see them?
Winston: Really to see them.
How many did you see?
O’Brien: We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us. As long as he resists us, we never destroy him. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. We make his brain perfect before we blow it out. And then when there is nothing left but sorrow and love of Big Brother we shall lift you clean out of history. We shall turn you into gas and pour you into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you. Not a name in a register. Not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past, as well as in the future.
Bummer.
Winston: Does Big Brother even exist?
O’Brien: Of course he exists.
Winston: No, I mean… does he exist like you or me?
O’Brien: You do not exist.
If you get his drift. Though it's not like you have much choice.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Muriel Barbery from The Elegance of the Hedgehog
Life has meaning and we grown-ups know what it is...the universal lie that everyone is supposed to believe. Once you become an adult and you realize that's not true, it's too late.
So, sure, by all means, take yours to the grave.
We think we can make honey without sharing in the fate of bees, but we are in truth nothing but poor bees, destined to accomplish our task and then die.
Kind of?
But many intelligent people have a sort of bug: they think intelligence is an end in itself. They have one idea in mind: to be intelligent, which is really stupid. And when intelligence takes itself for its own goal, it operates very strangely: the proof that it exists is not to be found in the ingenuity or simplicity of what it produces, but in how obscurely it is expressed.
Pedants!
...what I dread more than anything else in this life is noise...silence helps you to go inward..anyone who is interested in something more than just life outside actually needs silence.
Starting now?
For the first time in my life I understood the meaning of the word 'never'. And it's really awful. You say the word a hundred times a day but you don't really know what you're saying until you're faced with a real 'never again'.
You first.
There is always the easy way out, although I am loath to use it. I have no children, I do not watch television and I do not believe in God...all paths taken by mortals to make their lives easier. Children help us to defer the painful task of confronting ourselves, and grandchildren take over from them. Television distracts us from the onerous necessity of finding projects to construct in the vacuity of our frivolous lives; by beguiling our eyes, television releases our mind from the great work of making meaning. Finally, God appeases our animal fears and the unbearable prospect that someday all our pleasures will cease. Thus, as I have neither future nor progeny nor pixels to deaden the cosmic awareness of absurdity, and in the certainty of the end and the anticipation of the void, I believe I can affirm that I have not chosen the easy path.
I know, I know: she forgot philosophy.
Life has meaning and we grown-ups know what it is...the universal lie that everyone is supposed to believe. Once you become an adult and you realize that's not true, it's too late.
So, sure, by all means, take yours to the grave.
We think we can make honey without sharing in the fate of bees, but we are in truth nothing but poor bees, destined to accomplish our task and then die.
Kind of?
But many intelligent people have a sort of bug: they think intelligence is an end in itself. They have one idea in mind: to be intelligent, which is really stupid. And when intelligence takes itself for its own goal, it operates very strangely: the proof that it exists is not to be found in the ingenuity or simplicity of what it produces, but in how obscurely it is expressed.
Pedants!
...what I dread more than anything else in this life is noise...silence helps you to go inward..anyone who is interested in something more than just life outside actually needs silence.
Starting now?
For the first time in my life I understood the meaning of the word 'never'. And it's really awful. You say the word a hundred times a day but you don't really know what you're saying until you're faced with a real 'never again'.
You first.
There is always the easy way out, although I am loath to use it. I have no children, I do not watch television and I do not believe in God...all paths taken by mortals to make their lives easier. Children help us to defer the painful task of confronting ourselves, and grandchildren take over from them. Television distracts us from the onerous necessity of finding projects to construct in the vacuity of our frivolous lives; by beguiling our eyes, television releases our mind from the great work of making meaning. Finally, God appeases our animal fears and the unbearable prospect that someday all our pleasures will cease. Thus, as I have neither future nor progeny nor pixels to deaden the cosmic awareness of absurdity, and in the certainty of the end and the anticipation of the void, I believe I can affirm that I have not chosen the easy path.
I know, I know: she forgot philosophy.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 7757
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
1984
O’Brien: If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever.
Hard to Trump that, right?
Winston: In the end, they’ll beat you. Sooner or later, they’ll tear you to pieces.
O’Brien: On what evidence?
Winston: Goldstein’s book.
O’Brien: I wrote it. Or, at least, I collaborated in writing it. No book is individually produced, as you know.
Spin spin spin...
Winston: I know you’ll fail. Something in this world…some spirit you will never overcome…
O’Brien: What is it, this principle?
Winston: I don’t know. The spirit of man.
O’Brien: And do you consider yourself a man?
Winston: Yes.
O’Brien: If you’re a man, Winston, you’re the last man.
Hint, hint.
O’Brien: What are your feelings towards Big Brother?
Winston: I hate him.
O’Brien: You must love him. It is not enough to obey him. You must love him.
Rats?
O’Brien: You once asked me, Winston, what was in room 101. I think you know. Everyone does. The thing that is in room 101…is the worst thing in the world. It goes beyond fear of pain or death. It is unendurable, and it varies from individual to individual. It may be burial alive or castration…or many other things. In your case, it is rats.
https://youtu.be/AhhQK4xc7Ik?si=fgUs6zk3ruL2n5Rl
What's yours?
Mine? The pinheads, of course.
O’Brien: In the proletarian areas, the rats will attack a baby and within five minutes, strip it to the bone. They also attack the sick and dying. They show astonishing intelligence in knowing when a human being is helpless.
If only until the proletarians of the world unite.
O’Brien: The mask fits over your head, leaving no exit. I press the first lever and the rats move into the front compartment. I press the second, and the door of the cage will slide up. These starving brutes will shoot at you like bullets. Have you ever seen a rat leap through the air? They will leap onto your face and bore straight into it. Sometimes they attack the eyes first. Sometimes they burrow through the cheeks and devour the tongue.
That'll do it.
Winston: Do it to her! Do it to Julia! I don’t care what you do to her, but do it to her! Tear her my face off! Do it to Julia, not to me! Do it to Julia! Not to me!
Progress!
O’Brien: If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever.
Hard to Trump that, right?
Winston: In the end, they’ll beat you. Sooner or later, they’ll tear you to pieces.
O’Brien: On what evidence?
Winston: Goldstein’s book.
O’Brien: I wrote it. Or, at least, I collaborated in writing it. No book is individually produced, as you know.
Spin spin spin...
Winston: I know you’ll fail. Something in this world…some spirit you will never overcome…
O’Brien: What is it, this principle?
Winston: I don’t know. The spirit of man.
O’Brien: And do you consider yourself a man?
Winston: Yes.
O’Brien: If you’re a man, Winston, you’re the last man.
Hint, hint.
O’Brien: What are your feelings towards Big Brother?
Winston: I hate him.
O’Brien: You must love him. It is not enough to obey him. You must love him.
Rats?
O’Brien: You once asked me, Winston, what was in room 101. I think you know. Everyone does. The thing that is in room 101…is the worst thing in the world. It goes beyond fear of pain or death. It is unendurable, and it varies from individual to individual. It may be burial alive or castration…or many other things. In your case, it is rats.
https://youtu.be/AhhQK4xc7Ik?si=fgUs6zk3ruL2n5Rl
What's yours?
Mine? The pinheads, of course.
O’Brien: In the proletarian areas, the rats will attack a baby and within five minutes, strip it to the bone. They also attack the sick and dying. They show astonishing intelligence in knowing when a human being is helpless.
If only until the proletarians of the world unite.
O’Brien: The mask fits over your head, leaving no exit. I press the first lever and the rats move into the front compartment. I press the second, and the door of the cage will slide up. These starving brutes will shoot at you like bullets. Have you ever seen a rat leap through the air? They will leap onto your face and bore straight into it. Sometimes they attack the eyes first. Sometimes they burrow through the cheeks and devour the tongue.
That'll do it.
Winston: Do it to her! Do it to Julia! I don’t care what you do to her, but do it to her! Tear her my face off! Do it to Julia, not to me! Do it to Julia! Not to me!
Progress!