The Tragedy of Life

[Walker]

The pimp is still offering something which the lady can refuse

Perhaps refuse and get a beating or get raped again or he's offering more of the drugs he got her hooked on or more faux affection. Stuff that women raped by family members might have sensed were in the offing when they met these guys, but because on some unconscious level if was all familiar, so they repeat themselves.

That may apply to your straw-woman and straw-pimp. However, those elements are not part of the actual situation under discussion. Here is the actual situation.

In the interrogation room scene, a pimp is brought in for questioning concerning one of his women who is beautiful, cultured and intelligent enough to at first, convince the police that she was a career woman (might have been real estate) who had been the victim of a crime. They soon figured out she was a different kind of pro.

Your simplistic analysis doesn't fit these facts. No drugs, no beatings, no rapings from the pimp, and who are you to judge another's depth of affection with the dismissive word, faux? Are you a licensed elevation inspector? Hmm?

You may find deep and interesting rabbit holes when you look more closely and are less concerned with changing facts to fit a narrative, in order to be simplistically dismissive.

[Iwannaplato]

The pimp is still offering something which the lady can refuse

Perhaps refuse and get a beating or get raped again or he's offering more of the drugs he got her hooked on or more faux affection. Stuff that women raped by family members might have sensed were in the offing when they met these guys, but because on some unconscious level if was all familiar, so they repeat themselves.

That may apply to your straw-woman and straw-pimp. However, those elements are not part of the actual situation under discussion. Here is the actual situation.

In the interrogation room scene, a pimp is brought in for questioning concerning one of his women who is beautiful, cultured and intelligent enough to at first, convince the police that she was a career woman (might have been real estate) who had been the victim of a crime. They soon figured out she was a different kind of pro.

Your simplistic analysis doesn't fit these facts. No drugs, no beatings, no rapings from the pimp, and who are you to judge another's depth of affection with the dismissive word, faux? Are you a licensed elevation inspector? Hmm?

You may find deep and interesting rabbit holes when you look more closely and are less concerned with changing facts to fit a narrative, in order to be simplistically dismissive.

Sure, it's more complicated. I responded to a generalization with a generalization. Why don't you go ask Dattaswami about whether he thinks it's ok if you start making a living as the right kind of pimp?

You can reassure him what kind of pimp and prostitute you mean.

You know, like mafia guys who take Mass, get the kids confirmed.

[Walker]

Dattaswami appears to be living in your head rent free.



Since you insist on deviating from the depths and complexty of the pimp/woman relationship I've described with a preferred cartoonish caricature view of the world, then to further stray consider ...

What about an innocent man-child who gets non-violently rolled by a conniving survivor at the behest of her handler? I know of a true tragic story with a very sad ending that contained these elements, and I suspect in this age of on-line relationships it's not unique.

[Iwannaplato]

Dattaswami appears to be living in your head rent free.

Just noting hypocrisy.

Since you insist on deviating from the depths and complexty of the pimp/woman relationship I've described with a preferred cartoonish caricature view of the world, then to further stray consider ...

You mean your preferred also cartoonish caricature? Sure, again run it by Dattaswami whose great balls of truth you've kneeled before and expected others to admire also.

What about an innocent man-child who gets non-violently rolled by a conniving survivor at the behest of her handler? I know of a true tragic story with a very sad ending that contained these elements, and I suspect in this age of on-line relationships it's not unique.

I'm not sure what you think you're contradicting in my positions here. Can innocent men be victimized? Sure. Can women victimize men? Sure.

[Walker]

I'm not sure what you think you're contradicting in my positions here. Can innocent men be victimized? Sure. Can women victimize men? Sure.

Just noting your lack of focus.

You insist on changing the subject of discussion. Now you're making it about you being contradicted.

Before that, you took a specific example of a beautiful, cultured, and intelligent woman who is controlled and influenced by a man, and rather than explore how such a situation can be, you have instead created a new example that involves beatings, drugs, rape, and faux affection as the glue of their relationship. You have simply asserted a cliche that does not fit, so you're going to create a fog with a lack of focus, and faux questions.

From this cartoonish changing of the example, you have now jumped to attacking Dattaswami with more cliches.

Are you a cliche and if so, when did that happen in your life? It's a question for you to ponder. Perhaps you can consult the man in your head ... Dattaswami.

[Iwannaplato]

I'm not sure what you think you're contradicting in my positions here. Can innocent men be victimized? Sure. Can women victimize men? Sure.

Just noting your lack of focus.

You insist on changing the subject of discussion. Now you're making it about you being contradicted.

1) Well, you said....

Since you insist on deviating from the depths and complexty of the pimp/woman relationship I've described with a preferred cartoonish caricature view of the world, then to further stray consider ...

Yes, I thought it ALSO had something to do with my positions or your hallucinations of them. But then 2 ) I responded to your example and agreed it was certainly possible. My response mirrored what you wrote. Aimed at me and an example of something in the world. Now to you're somehow being a victim....
Making it? I wasn't sure what you were doing. I responded to the assertions. You can tell me what your intent is. I am not making it about anything. Neither you nor the conversation is a victim to my choices. You don't tell me here in this post why you brought up the innocent man getting rolled. Were you actually interested in that example? Why don't you make the point now? If it didn't matter to you, then this is a faux critique of my somehow magically controlling the discussion. If it did matter to you, then clarify. I agreed that those things happen. You could have taken the next step, or really the missing, step, and explained what that example was for. But you opted out.

And duzek, who I responded to, is likely a big boy who can handle my responses without saying they are making him or the discussion do something. Did you notice how like an adult, not presenting something as a victim, he managed to do that?
viewtopic.php?p=633675#p633675

Before that, you took a specific example of a beautiful, cultured, and intelligent woman who is controlled and influenced by a man, and rather than explore how such a situation can be,

I don't need to explore it Walker. I don't doubt that such situations exist. Perhaps you made it up off the top of your head. But regardless, the world now has, yes, a vastly more complex set of sex trade situations and participants. So?

you have instead created a new example that involves beatings, drugs, rape, and faux affection as the glue of their relationship. You have simply asserted a cliche that does not fit, so you're going to create a fog with a lack of focus, and faux questions.

It fit a generalization. I don't think duzek needed rescuing with your ideal anectdotal evidence of a specific case. He'll manage on his own, I'm sure.

From this cartoonish changing of the example, you have now jumped to attacking Dattaswami with more cliches.

No, I was attacking you. You have reacted to people being critical of DS positions, as a rule, categorically. Run your sophisticated prostitute/pimp pair by him and perhaps you'll find yourself critical of his positions. And maybe you can get out of the cliche relation to gurus.

[Walker]

Good grief, grow up. More fog doesn't help your case.

[Iwannaplato]

Good grief, grow up.

I know, it can be bothersome to have your games and posturing pointed out.

I hope you understand that you calling my example cartoonish because of your counter-evidence from The Shield is kinda funny. I had all these images from the work I used to do with real people in that world getting in the way of taking you seriously as a counselor for incels.

[Iwannaplato]

Mr Promethean and Mr Walker

Let me give you an example to explain what I mean:

A hardened and embittered incel calls and spills his anger and his views that it is unfair that attractive women don´t fall in love with him although he perfectly deserves it. (I read a novel about someone like it who murders women to "punish them".)

How would you argue with empathy ?

Most people do something like this in some way in relation to something. Vague, I know. What I mean is we don't want to look at everything we are feeling and feel it, and it's easier to blame others.

I think the most important thing for the incel is to realize that what he is presenting as what he is feeling is far more complicated. At some point he might need to acknowledge that if he could choose between women, he would also with regularity not choose some women to be with. That he is no better. But arguing with incel, while it might be all one has in some situations, is not really what the incel needs. They need to get down in the feelings they really don't want to look at. Feelings about parents and friends and their peers. Feelings about themselves. Fears and shame and guilt. Then also to look at the rest of their lives.

Are they doing what they want professionally/educationally?
What do they like and want to do and how can that be improved?

Of course some incels may have this stuff in life, but I think most have problems with life in a more general way.

[duszek]

You probably have not read Houellebecq´s novel "L´extension du champ de la lutte" in which a man makes enormous efforts to find a girlfriends and fails miserably. I was sorry for this guy in the novel.
But there are so many women who look for a guy and never get one, does anyone feel sorry for them ????

[Agent Smith]

"Either everything's a ..."

"No, not again! Shaddup Tom!"

"But, it's true!"

"I know it's true! Everybody knows! You made sure of that by broadcasting your quote unquote message to the whole friggin' world!! When was it? Last month, March, I even remember the date, the 13th!"

"I'm going to transmit it again tomorrow! It's quite important you see!"

"No you're not! Harry! Harry! Do something!!"

"Isn't it a bit too late?"

"Sigh, God have mercy on our souls!"

[Toppsy Kretts]

once again, the Marine Corps has proven to me again that the ego of people still lives on throughout peoples own desires.
its tragic for me to sit and understand the fury of men and the wickedness of the people driven by those who choose to become more of the animalistic side of humanity. People choose to fight and solve there problems with force instead of discussing the issue like a man. I will fight to save my life and never "body box" nor will I choose to play fight in the sense of showing who is bigger or badder. you can be all that you want it doesn't bother me but if you choose to threaten me or my loved once i will strongly let you understand that i will but something inside of your abdomen to get you away from me and that is not a threat friend...that is a promise. I love all of life and respect every aspect and promised god to protect the innocents from the wicked any means necessary.

my truthfulness and desire to provide and live is far more potent than your ego to prove how much of a animal you are.

the dangerous guy in the room isn't the biggest size there. its the most scared guy in the room that will achieve anything to survive

[Agent Smith]

He saw the child - blond curls, big, blue eyes, slender frame, and how could he miss, the grime on her cheeks, elbows, knees, shins, between her nails and her skin - he walked on and she looked somewhere else. "Look here mister, watch where you're going!" I apologized. I hadta be somewhere ... Where? Where?