Ukraine Crisis

[Gary Childress]

How can the war in Ukraine be resolved? Does anyone have any sensible ideas?

[Gary Childress]

Preferably a peaceful resolution. I guess I should add that in there, perhaps?

[Gary Childress]

Because he's had enough of NATO scooping up one country after another and the CIA initiating the 2014 coup in Ukraine.
When Gorbachev brought about Glasnost and Perestroika he dismantled the Warsaw Pact, THis was the world's greatest chance at lasting peace.
Sadly NATO continued to grow and the result of this expansion made the Gorbachev efforts look weak in the face of passive aggression by the west, so we had the rise of less friendly leaders such as Putin.

That makes some sense. However, war is not going to solve anything in the way it ought to be solved. Is there no way to resolve differences without invading or sending armies? Is that the only way things can be resolved?

I agree - but then I do not live in Russia, and cannot share their psychology of a fortress state having lost 24 million people at the hands of Western powers in WW2; and suffered civil war and revolution as a result of WW1.

From the perspective of the US citizen I imagine it would be very difficult for you to understand. And whilst your own military has been engaged in conflicts causing more deaths than any other country since WW2, I imagine that Russia feels rather under the US's continual threat.
It's about imagining a perspective.

I don't live in Russia either so I can't understand it either from where I sit. However, I've heard that Putin was rejected from NATO because it was determined that he (as a particular leader) was considered a "dangerous" person. Now he's been the leader of Russia for how long? He's done what to opponents and dissidents? He's invaded how many of his neighbors? Why is Putin so adamant about holding onto power and why are the people of Russia supporting him and not someone else?

[Gary Childress]

@AJ, are you here yet? Or is sending jumping spiders all over the place to give people a "fate worse than death" more suitable for you?

[Sculptor]

That makes some sense. However, war is not going to solve anything in the way it ought to be solved. Is there no way to resolve differences without invading or sending armies? Is that the only way things can be resolved?

I agree - but then I do not live in Russia, and cannot share their psychology of a fortress state having lost 24 million people at the hands of Western powers in WW2; and suffered civil war and revolution as a result of WW1.

From the perspective of the US citizen I imagine it would be very difficult for you to understand. And whilst your own military has been engaged in conflicts causing more deaths than any other country since WW2, I imagine that Russia feels rather under the US's continual threat.
It's about imagining a perspective.

I don't live in Russia either so I can't understand it either from where I sit. However, I've heard that Putin was rejected from NATO because it was determined that he (as a particular leader) was considered a "dangerous" person. Now he's been the leader of Russia for how long? He's done what to opponents and dissidents? He's invaded how many of his neighbors? Why is Putin so adamant about holding onto power and why are the people of Russia supporting him and not someone else?

"Putin was rejected from NATO".
WTF does this mean?
NATO only exists to threaten Russia. That is its purpose. By the way your talk it's almost as if you are implying that he asked to join.

And what of dissidents? Have you not heard of Bradley Manning, or Julian Assange? People who demonstrated that the US government agencies were in breach of human rights and breaking national and international laws.
You tell me how many Neighbours he has invaded? Would that be more or less than the number of countries the US has attacked, invaded, and intrigued against ?

[Gary Childress]

I agree - but then I do not live in Russia, and cannot share their psychology of a fortress state having lost 24 million people at the hands of Western powers in WW2; and suffered civil war and revolution as a result of WW1.

From the perspective of the US citizen I imagine it would be very difficult for you to understand. And whilst your own military has been engaged in conflicts causing more deaths than any other country since WW2, I imagine that Russia feels rather under the US's continual threat.
It's about imagining a perspective.

I don't live in Russia either so I can't understand it either from where I sit. However, I've heard that Putin was rejected from NATO because it was determined that he (as a particular leader) was considered a "dangerous" person. Now he's been the leader of Russia for how long? He's done what to opponents and dissidents? He's invaded how many of his neighbors? Why is Putin so adamant about holding onto power and why are the people of Russia supporting him and not someone else?

"Putin was rejected from NATO".
WTF does this mean?
NATO only exists to threaten Russia. That is its purpose. By the way your talk it's almost as if you are implying that he asked to join.

And what of dissidents? Have you not heard of Bradley Manning, or Julian Assange? People who demonstrated that the US government agencies were in breach of human rights and breaking national and international laws.
You tell me how many Neighbours he has invaded? Would that be more or less than the number of countries the US has attacked, invaded, and intrigued against ?

OK. Now what do we do? How do we solve the current conflict?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Hello all. Is this the (poisonous) Colombian Jumping Spider thread? I received an invitation.

[Gary Childress]

Hello all. Is this the (poisonous) Colombian Jumping Spider thread? I received an invitation.

Yes. It is whatever thread you want it to be, as long as you participate in the discussion to move forward beyond this crisis. We'll have to work that out somehow and my leaders don't seem to be doing what they ought to do as far as I can tell, so we need to hear from more intelligent people here.

[Alexis Jacobi]

@AJ, are you here yet? Or is sending jumping spiders all over the place to give people a "fate worse than death" more suitable for you?

Hmmmmm. Let me think that through …

[Gary Childress]

@AJ, are you here yet? Or is sending jumping spiders all over the place to give people a "fate worse than death" more suitable for you?

Hmmmmm. Let me think that through …

OK. Thank you for participating. Take all the time you want or need. This may potentially be a slow process but it's better to make some progress rather than none at all. Obviously, the world has problems right now and everyone needs figure out how to solve this.

Thank you.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Yes. It is whatever thread you want it to be, as long as you participate in the discussion to move forward beyond this crisis.

Bor-ring!

My interest is in exacerbating the crisis. Fuck it! I’m pissed and irrational!!!

I’m that wicked.

Where does the death toll stand? Really, how many Russians, how many Ukrainians dead?

I’ve heard over there are 200,000 dead Ukrainians and many wounded. And that this cannot go on. Ukraine will collapse by Summer.

Russia wins.

Then what?

[Gary Childress]

My interest is in exacerbating the crisis. Fuck it! I’m pissed and irrational!!!

I’m that wicked.

You're not "irrational" unless you refuse to budge. You're not wicked either. I see that now. You are as much a victim of what's going on as the rest of us. I don't know anything else about you AJ, but you are not "wicked". I have never called you "wicked". I have only asked you to be a "human being". We're all human beings. Some of us (undoubtedly most of us) do "wicked" things sometimes. Maybe there are a few saints out there. I'm certainly not one of them. I'm just a human being.

I guess I should ask, what is the word for "human being" in the place where you live? Our word "human being" means every person in the world. It does not include insects, reptiles or other mammals, however, it does not necessarily mean that insects and other creatures aren't important and worthy of care and concern.

[Alexis Jacobi]

OK. Wouldn't it be better to stop the war though, before more people fall in battle?

How dreamy. From Russia’s perspective, and it has validity, the war begun must be concluded with a win. My sources (which I don’t trust completely— who can you trust?!? — indicate that ‘everyone knows’ Ukraine is losing and must surrender.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I guess I should ask, what is the word for "human being" in the place where you live?

It translates to “merciless hypocritical upright killer ape”.

How about where you are? Down along the Walmart aisles ….

[Gary Childress]

OK. Wouldn't it be better to stop the war though, before more people fall in battle?

How dreamy. From Russia’s perspective, and it has validity, the war begun must be concluded with a win. My sources (which I don’t trust completely— who can you trust?!? — indicate that ‘everyone knows’ Ukraine is losing and must surrender.

OK. We did not win in Iraq or Afghanistan. War is not the way to go. If you want to win in Ukraine, then wouldn't be best to show the Ukrainians that your way is the better way? The sooner you stop, the less damage you will do, unlike our mistakes. We thought there was no penalty for what we were doing. Now we know there are indeed penalties. We have become morally impotent as a result. We know there were many lies told to us (the citizens of the United States) by our media and by many others. Now we (everyone) needs to know truth and not lies. Truth is the first casualty of war, therefore the only way to stop war is to breathe life back into truth and resurrect truth.