Christianity

[commonsense]

But with God, all things are possible.

So God is responsible for belief in and following the path of Satan.

You'll have to point out to me where anybody said anything that remotely resembles that.

It’s my own conclusion.

[Immanuel Can]

So God is responsible for belief in and following the path of Satan.

You'll have to point out to me where anybody said anything that remotely resembles that.

It’s my own conclusion.

I don't see what it's predicated upon...but of course, one can conclude anything, if one has no basis of predication.

[commonsense]

You'll have to point out to me where anybody said anything that remotely resembles that.

It’s my own conclusion.

I don't see what it's predicated upon...but of course, one can conclude anything, if one has no basis of predication.

Sorry, I thought you would discern the predication.

Did God not create Satan? Therefore God is responsible for belief in Satan. Actions are normally consistent with beliefs. Therefore God is responsible for the actions of following in the path of Satan.

[commonsense]

I, too, usually like what Penn Jillette has to say about religion. I can't quite see how he can be a God hater, though, when he doesn't believe there is a God.

That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.

You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.

1. Don’t you think Harbal was making a joke?

2. Do you really believe that there many atheists who punish God?

[BigMike]

I, too, usually like what Penn Jillette has to say about religion. I can't quite see how he can be a God hater, though, when he doesn't believe there is a God.

That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.

You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.

That statement is incorrect and misrepresents atheism. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity or deities. It is not possible to hate something that one does not believe exists, and it is not a coherent concept to try to punish something that one does not think exists.

Atheism is not a belief system that focuses on punishing or hating God, but rather a position that lacks belief in a deity or deities. To suggest otherwise is to misunderstand the fundamental principles of atheism.

Furthermore, it is important to note that atheists can have a wide range of beliefs and attitudes, and it is unfair and inaccurate to make broad generalizations about them. Just as with any group of people, there will be individuals with varying beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors.

In conclusion, the statement is incorrect and misrepresents atheism. It is important to avoid making broad generalizations and to take the time to understand different belief systems and perspectives.

[Immanuel Can]

Did God not create Satan?

Apparently, he was not created evil. He was named "Lucifer," meaning "the light bearer."

Therefore God is responsible for belief in Satan.

Well, people don't "believe in" Satan, in the relevant sense. I mean, it's certainly true that some believe he exists...that's not in question...but they most don't "put their trust" and "put their faith" in Satan, in the way that others would in God. You can't "trust" the one who is "The Father of Lies."

Rather, Satanists will tell you, they believe in themselves...just as Satan did.

[Immanuel Can]

I, too, usually like what Penn Jillette has to say about religion. I can't quite see how he can be a God hater, though, when he doesn't believe there is a God.

That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.

You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.

1. Don’t you think Harbal was making a joke?

No. I think he was recognizing an inconsistency in Atheism, because his comment is l9iterally correct...their action is incoherent.

2. Do you really believe that there many atheists who punish God?

No, of course. Nobody can do that. But that's another incoherence in their attitude.

But don't take my word for it. C.S. Lewis started out as an Atheist. In his own bio, this is what he wrote:

“I was at this time living, like so many Atheists or Antitheists, in a whirl of contradictions. I maintained that God did not exist. I was also very angry with God for not existing. I was equally angry with Him for creating a world.”

I don't think his attitude is something uncommon among Atheists. Quite a lot of them become Atheists as teenagers -- Richard Dawkins, for example -- so you can be certain they aren't doing it based on the mature insights derived from profound academic reflection, or anything like that. They're just irrationally mad at God, and doing what they can to express that, however irrational their actions may be.

[Immanuel Can]

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity or deities.

No, it isn't.

Your definition would make rocks and trees "Atheists."

[Belinda]

Did God not create Satan?

Apparently, he was not created evil. He was named "Lucifer," meaning "the light bearer."

Therefore God is responsible for belief in Satan.

Well, people don't "believe in" Satan, in the relevant sense. I mean, it's certainly true that some believe he exists...that's not in question...but they most don't "put their trust" and "put their faith" in Satan, in the way that others would in God. You can't "trust" the one who is "The Father of Lies."

Rather, Satanists will tell you, they believe in themselves...just as Satan did.

Satan is not an evil character because it is Satan who causes us to disobey authority. Only those people, such as IC is ,who cling to authority call Satan the father of lies.

I quite understand why someone would be angry with God for not existing. It's like an adolescent gets angry with a parent when the adolescent discovers the parent is only being a silly human like everyone else.

[BigMike]

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity or deities.

No, it isn't.

Your definition would make rocks and trees "Atheists."

Touche

Let me rephrase that: People who identify as atheists don't believe in a deity or deities.

[Immanuel Can]

Satan is not an evil character because it is Satan who causes us to disobey authority. Only those people, such as IC is ,who cling to authority call Satan the father of lies.

"Please allow B. to introduce herself..."

Well, I guess you've chosen whom you want to defend, and whom you wish to challenge. Noted.

We all make our choices.

[Dubious]

I, too, usually like what Penn Jillette has to say about religion. I can't quite see how he can be a God hater, though, when he doesn't believe there is a God.

That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.

You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.

Aside from being a complete contradiction, no it's not; based on that conclusion you haven't a clue as to what atheism is or how overtly illogical your statement is.

It may be news to you, but you can't hate something you don't believe exists or has any relevance to one's existence; that would be tantamount to punishing god for not existing or being totally indifferent like nature itself; it explains as well how all that demented bible BS came to be...a solo ride by ancient humans - since no god was ever involved with the project - who nevertheless endorsed themselves as the Chosen People creating in their long period of manufacture one of the world's greatest compendiums of contradictions and lies.

What god wouldn't be embarrassed and turn as red as hell itself if the bible were true!

The only way its singular kind of "authority" can be upheld is never question but categorically accept on the premise that its words are divine or divinely inspired. Based on all the insidious memes the brain can easily be infected with and without the necessary antibodies to combat it, it's not hard to understand why so many of your type still infect the planet.

Your ultra radical theism (disease personified) distorts atheism into what it isn't and never was but remains the best way a theist of your rank can feel superior in the knowledge that god indeed "IS WITH US" and that god left the atheist to suffer his dismal fate! Of course, your version of atheism is very specific. To qualify all you have to do is not believe in Jesus as per his mandate regardless of any other religious beliefs practiced on the planet.

Your simple and single-mindedness which you've perfected and as practiced by so many, is an existential threat to the welfare of the human race. Your unconditional acceptance of the bible belongs to the Ptolemaic period of understanding the universe and how life itself came to be. It took long enough but eventually that view was rectified.

[Immanuel Can]

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity or deities.

No, it isn't.

Your definition would make rocks and trees "Atheists."

Touche

Let me rephrase that: People who identify as atheists don't believe in a deity or deities.

It's still not a sufficient definition.

Somebody who's simply ignorant, or oblivious, or even uncertain would, according to that, be an "Atheist." And he would have no position relative to anybody else's belief or disbelief, of course.

[Immanuel Can]

...you haven't a clue as to what atheism is...

Great. Let's have your definition.

[Gary Childress]

...you haven't a clue as to what atheism is...

Great. Let's have your definition.

Atheism is the belief of a human being that no god exists or that there is no God. It is also sometimes defined as lacking belief in a god or gods. Take your preferred pick. If you want to add something to the effect that an Atheist is "a human who lacks belief in the existence of gods" then that should repair your apparent confusion between rocks and humans.

When I was younger I was an Atheist with the firm belief that with so many different religions in the world, meaning that not all of them might be true (some even seeming blatantly ridiculous), the more likely answer to that situation for me at the time was that there is no god of any shape or form. I based this on Carl Sagan's position in the documentary Cosmos. I can't speak for C.S. Lewis' professed reasons for his Atheism, however, mine was simply lacking a positive belief or disbelieving (or however one wishes to present it) that there was a God. I didn't grow up in the Church. I didn't grow up with much in the way of mention of God or a perceived presence of a god in my life or household. The only way I thought of God was as a myth that some people believed, little more, little less.

As I grew older I adopted what I consider to be a more rational position of agnosticism. An agnostic either lacks or purposely withholds belief regarding things unless he feels there is good and sufficient reason to believe so. Over time (especially after puberty hit) I also developed anger toward the way the world seemed to be. Later I came to believe that a world without a God is devoid of any guarantees that anything would work out in any satisfactory manner for us. I, therefore, see an advantage in there being a God (whether it be the Christian one or not I'm not sure), however, I have a difficult time reconciling the desire for there to be a God with the seeming fact that there is a lot of misery in the world. And if God is the creator of the world, then God must have created it knowing there would be misery for some.

It is not clear to me that the misery in the world is justified for everyone, that all people are dealt misery in accord with the degree of wickedness, evil (or whatever you want to call it) that they have committed or possess. I found it very difficult, for example, to believe that all the poor deserved to be poor, and deserved to grow up in an environment that would almost certainly tend to bring out the worst in a person, preventing them from attaining higher goals for no other reason than they couldn't find a way to think outside their belief system that they acquired as a poor person growing up.

I hope that clarifies my position on having been an Atheist. If you want to stick with C.S. Lewis and paint all Atheists with the same brush, then knock yourself out.