iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:07 am
That's because out in the world of actual human interactions there's what we claim our motivations and intentions are and there is how others perceive and react to them instead.
And you perceived mine as political. I don't understand why my first post saying I didn't grieve her passing struck you as political. Sure, I can imagine others would/might take it that way. This is the real world of human reactions. You judged it as political. You seem to give others that responsibility. I keep pointing out that you made that judgment. I'll drop it from here since you can't seem to talk about this as an individual, but point to others as if you must agree with them.
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:22 pmYou are not taking responsibility. You are blaming others and using pejorative terms for them, since they will say anything anyone says is deemed political. So, it seems negative when they do this.
I'm sure it seemed negative to the Jews back in Nazi Germany. And when racists and sexists and homophobes and small government fanatics intent on chopping up the welfare state insist they are only expressing their own personal opinions about these issues, sure, we can leave it at that.
After all, they might not act on these opinions once in power, right?
that's not a response to what I wrote. My post was about not grieving her death.
I have gone on and made political posts about the Queen in this thread and others, but my original post, which you grouped with all the others was not political to me and I am surprised it is to you. And I am surprised that this relates to what happened to jews in Nazi germany and that you cannot seem to actually write as an individual. Further, I cannot see what difference your lack of objectivism does. IOW you often seem to blame objectivists for their certainty and attitudes. Perhaps you are uncertain about your values, but in any debate I doubt this subtlety will make any different. You'll be on one team occasionally saying that you aren't sure, but all they and your team will notice is that you are on Team X and disparage team Y just like everyone else.
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:22 pmBut YOU did it. You were talking to me. I don't think the relevant reactions of mine were political. YOu seem to think they are fanatical. But for some reason their fanaticism means you will carry their message to me. So, you are either going along with fanatics. Or you are fanatical.
Note where I convinced you I thought your own views on the queen were fanatical. Note the "ridiculous claims". We just construe "personal opinions" differently here.
The 'they' in the sentence 'You seem to the they are fanatical' refers to other people who will see my post as political. You see them as fanatical. They will see my post as political. They will see....they will see....they will see. But YOU labelled my post as poltical. You didn't need to do that, unless that is what YOU think. They dont' have to control your mind and judgment. Or do they?
I give up. I have tried a few times to clarify. It seems to me you are passing your value judgment on to others. You batched all of our responses as political. When I said I did not consider mine that way, you said others would. I pointed out that you did this yourself. Yes, some likely will. But you labelled it that way. To justify this you point at them. In fact none of them reacted to my first post as political. Only you labelled it that way - as part of labelling all previous posts as that. You didn't have to label it that way. When I point this out, you point at the fanatics. I am not sure why you have to label things like people who you consider fanatics. When I point this out again, you point to the fanatics. Fanatics is a pejorative term. I am not sure why you think you have to label things like people you label pejoratively do. I point this out and get the same response. Like, for example, I thought perhaps you could say, yeah, for me, the fact that you didn't grieve her death isn't political, but others may well think so. But no, it is just what others think that matters. Perhaps if you'd actually worked with my analogy with the Catholic church and masturbation you could have taken a stand there. Yeah, if I masturbate or were to, I wouldn't see this as taking a stand on religion, but others may. But no such concession seemed possible for you AND at no time do you explain why you can't weigh in as an individual. You clearly manage when it has to do with other political issues. You come off as clearly lefty (and yes, I know you don't think you can convince everyone this is the rational view to have, etc. HOWEVER, you manage to make it clear what your values are and what you believe on what nearly everyone would call political issues. But on my post, no, it's what the fanatics would think of it. Oh, well)
So, I think it's best I give up. Not sure what is going on, an experience I often have with you, but that's life.