Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

[FlashDangerpants]

Yes. It isn't necessary, although it is perhaps sufficient. For that second thing to be the case we have to overlook howlers suchas the second paragraph where the guy for no apparent reason pre-supposes that science is how we determine social roles of gender and appropriate behaviour in such circumstances. I think it's quite bad tbh and the author is out of his depth.

[Gary Childress]

I would suggest that we start by wondering not whether it makes us feel all weird, but whether we can actually accomodate this person's request. Medical ethics would say no with reference to a patient experiencing a severe breakdown who wants to go unmedicated. But there's just a lot of other ways for people to live their lives than the boring normal way that most of us go about it.

Well, I don't know if the normal way of living life is "boring". It sometimes seems to me that deviation can come at a biological price. Some people who go against the grain have done great things in this world but some others have ended up just having a lot of psychological trouble. I don't know if the mantra of being "unique" and "different" than everyone else is always a good one. Sometimes conformity makes sense I think. Otherwise, people tend to get alienated from each other because it just ends up offending sensibilities for no good reason. But I suppose someone experiencing gender dysphoria probably doesn't do it just for the purpose of being "different" and setting themselves apart from the rest. I assume they genuinely have issues that cause them to behave that way.

[henry quirk]

Yes. It isn't necessary, although it is perhaps sufficient. For that second thing to be the case we have to overlook howlers suchas the second paragraph where the guy for no apparent reason pre-supposes that science is how we determine social roles of gender and appropriate behaviour in such circumstances. I think it's quite bad tbh and the author is out of his depth.

It's biology.

But, as I say, we're not movin' here, flash, and I despise merry go rounds

[Gary Childress]

I guess I was thinking that someone who goes through gender dysphoria is more like a person in a wheelchair who overcomes his or her disability than a girl who arrogantly or foolishly puts "fuck you" on her forehead. I would hire the former but not the latter.

Interesting to me how gender dysphoria is bein' viewed as sumthin' other than an illness. Flash alludes to minorities, you sympathize with the disability.

What defines "Illness" and "health" in a species is a tricky thing sometimes, I think. Some deviation could be healthy or necessary for a species and some may not. I mean, maybe we are a species which has developed the trait of having diverse feelings about gender. Many other species that engage in sexual reproduction seem to just cut it right down the middle, sperm on one side and egg on the other. I don't know.

[henry quirk]

"What defines "Illness" and "health" in a species is a tricky thing sometimes, I think. Some deviation could be healthy or necessary for a species and some may not. I mean, maybe we are a species which has developed the trait of having diverse feelings about gender. Many other species that engage in sexual reproduction seem to just cut it right down the middle, sperm on one side and egg on the other. I don't know."

I hear ya, wish I could sympathize.

[FlashDangerpants]

But, as I say, we're not movin' here, flash, and I despise merry go rounds

Thing is Henry, I've been giving you new material. But through the last three pointless threads on this stuff, all you've really had is trivial variations on "it's obvious that men ain't women and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong."

So the merry go round here, that's down to you really. Perhaps it's time to stop boarding these tranny bashing threads.

[Gary Childress]

"What defines "Illness" and "health" in a species is a tricky thing sometimes, I think. Some deviation could be healthy or necessary for a species and some may not. I mean, maybe we are a species which has developed the trait of having diverse feelings about gender. Many other species that engage in sexual reproduction seem to just cut it right down the middle, sperm on one side and egg on the other. I don't know."

I hear ya, wish I could sympathize.

Meh. I guess we all do our best with how we understand the world. You're OK in my book, Henry.

[henry quirk]

But, as I say, we're not movin' here, flash, and I despise merry go rounds

Thing is Henry, I've been giving you new material. But through the last three pointless threads on this stuff, all you've really had is trivial variations on "it's obvious that men ain't women and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong."

So the merry go round here, that's down to you really. Perhaps it's time to stop boarding these tranny bashing threads.

No, you've offered up the same drivel as always, there's so many ways to look a gender.

Me: i point to biology, not personal preference.

Finally: I don't bash. I state what is obvious in blunt terms.

As i say, we -- you and me -- are goin' 'round & 'round.

So you go and bed a guy who sez he's a girl (cuz, heaven forbid you should contradict his own self-assessment) and me, I won't.

[Gary Childress]

But, as I say, we're not movin' here, flash, and I despise merry go rounds

Thing is Henry, I've been giving you new material. But through the last three pointless threads on this stuff, all you've really had is trivial variations on "it's obvious that men ain't women and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong."

So the merry go round here, that's down to you really. Perhaps it's time to stop boarding these tranny bashing threads.

It's not a "tranny bashing thead". It's people trying to come to terms with change and differences.

[FlashDangerpants]

But, as I say, we're not movin' here, flash, and I despise merry go rounds

Thing is Henry, I've been giving you new material. But through the last three pointless threads on this stuff, all you've really had is trivial variations on "it's obvious that men ain't women and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong."

So the merry go round here, that's down to you really. Perhaps it's time to stop boarding these tranny bashing threads.

No, you've offered up the same drivel as always, there's so many ways to look a gender.

Me: i point to biology, not personal preference.

Yes, you've been entirely clear that you aren't interested in there being any other aspects to gender. And you ahve stated as bluntly as possible that this seems obvious to you. Let me know when you have a reason why it is true though, other than it being obvious to you and therefore true.

So you go and bed a guy who sez he's a girl (cuz, heaven forbid you should contradict his own self-assessment) and me, I won't.

That's an appeal to prejudice so not a useful argument I'm afraid. You can perhaps show that I'm a hypocrite who says one thing and does another, but the thing about hypocrites is that they usually say the good thing and do the bad thing. So you kinda need that to go the other way round. Here's an example...

Suppose you got a blowie off of some guy in a wig and lipstick pretending to be a girl, but it was the greatest blowie ever, real sloppy but with a tiny bit of teeth. How do you know you wouldn't go back for more the next time you were drunk and just call her Jospehine while she stuck a finger up your butt hole?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Thing is Henry, I've been giving you new material. But through the last three pointless threads on this stuff, all you've really had is trivial variations on "it's obvious that men ain't women and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong."

So the merry go round here, that's down to you really. Perhaps it's time to stop boarding these tranny bashing threads.

No, you've offered up the same drivel as always, there's so many ways to look a gender.

Me: i point to biology, not personal preference.

Yes, you've been entirely clear that you aren't interested in there being any other aspects to gender. And you ahve stated as bluntly as possible that this seems obvious to you. Let me know when you have a reason why it is true though, other than it being obvious to you and therefore true.

So you go and bed a guy who sez he's a girl (cuz, heaven forbid you should contradict his own self-assessment) and me, I won't.

That's an appeal to prejudice so not a useful argument I'm afraid. You can perhaps show that I'm a hypocrite who says one thing and does another, but the thing about hypocrites is that they usually say the good thing and do the bad thing. So you kinda need that to go the other way round. Here's an example...

Suppose you got a blowie off of some guy in a wig and lipstick pretending to be a girl, but it was the greatest blowie ever, real sloppy but with a tiny bit of teeth. How do you know you wouldn't go back for more the next time you were drunk and just call her Jospehine while she stuck a finger up your butt hole?

He's said over and over that they can do, dress as they please. He's just saying that they aren't women, which is true.

[Gary Childress]

So you go and bed a guy who sez he's a girl (cuz, heaven forbid you should contradict his own self-assessment) and me, I won't.

... You can perhaps show that I'm a hypocrite who says one thing and does another, but the thing about hypocrites is that they usually say the good thing and do the bad thing. So you kinda need that to go the other way round. Here's an example...

I don't think it's hypocritical for you to be relatively tolerant of transsexuals but not want to have sex with them, if that's what you mean by your statement above.

[FlashDangerpants]

So you go and bed a guy who sez he's a girl (cuz, heaven forbid you should contradict his own self-assessment) and me, I won't.

... You can perhaps show that I'm a hypocrite who says one thing and does another, but the thing about hypocrites is that they usually say the good thing and do the bad thing. So you kinda need that to go the other way round. Here's an example...

I don't think it's hypocritical for you to be relatively tolerant of transsexuals but not want to have sex with them, if that's what you mean by your statement above.

Maybe, but that doesn't really matter to me. My point was that the argument cannot support the wanted conclusion, so whether I answer in the way I am being led, or just go the other way, it's moot.

If I say the right thing, but do the wrong thing, that makes me a bad man, but it doesn't stop the thing I said being right, it just robs me of personal moral authority.

[Gary Childress]

... You can perhaps show that I'm a hypocrite who says one thing and does another, but the thing about hypocrites is that they usually say the good thing and do the bad thing. So you kinda need that to go the other way round. Here's an example...

I don't think it's hypocritical for you to be relatively tolerant of transsexuals but not want to have sex with them, if that's what you mean by your statement above.

Maybe, but that doesn't really matter to me. My point was that the argument cannot support the wanted conclusion, so whether I answer in the way I am being led, or just go the other way, it's moot.

If I say the right thing, but do the wrong thing, that makes me a bad man, but it doesn't stop the thing I said being right, it just robs me of personal moral authority.

I agree with the logical aspect. But is it "wrong" to not want to have sex with a transsexual? It seems to me that there is no moral obligation to have sex with someone. You can still be relatively tolerant toward someone but not entertain all their desires. Therefore why even say, "you can perhaps show that I"m a hypocrite", if you're not being hypocritical?

[henry quirk]

Yes, you've been entirely clear that you aren't interested in there being any other aspects to gender. And you ahve stated as bluntly as possible that this seems obvious to you. Let me know when you have a reason why it is true though, other than it being obvious to you and therefore true.

It simply follows that a genetic male is male.

#

That's an appeal to prejudice so not a useful argument I'm afraid. You can perhaps show that I'm a hypocrite who says one thing and does another, but the thing about hypocrites is that they usually say the good thing and do the bad thing. So you kinda need that to go the other way round.

If a man can be a woman through self-declaration only (and that's your claim) then why wouldn't you a nice hetero (I presume you are hetro) bed him, I mean, her?

That she has a penis shouldn't matter, yeah? And if it does matter to you, why does it matter?

She's a girl, yeah?