bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pm
Age wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:54 am
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:51 pm
Individuals decide to sin.
Individual adults decide to do ALL they want.
Yes, and that it the problem when they decide to sin according to Cristian.
From the definition I have for the word 'sin' it is completely impossible to choose to 'sin'. It would be completely contradictory to decide to 'sin'.
But I do SEE a lot of things differently than most people do.
Also, WHY is it that when people decide to 'sin', then that is a problem according to 'christians'?
What 'problems' do 'christians' see?
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:51 pm
No sin is allowed though.
By who?
By Catholic, Muslim, ..., God.
Besides God is NOT a person. Who do these people think they are, to decide what is allowed and what is not allowed?
Where do these people think that they obtained their understanding of what is right and what is wrong from? And what makes where they got it from RIGHT?
I say this, KNOWING that they could only provide answers that would be contradicting their own selves and the very thing that they are saying is not allowed.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
What do you think and say the words 'sin' and 'hell' actually mean?
Sin is what is prohibited by God.
That is one definition, so now, what is actually prohibited by God?
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmPeople have different views on what Hell is, some say that it is a state of torturing others say that it is a state of lack of God.
And what do 'you' say it is?
Just to make it clear, if and when I ask a person directly how a word is defined, I would like to KNOW how 'they' define that word. I usually only ask a person directly to define a word that 'they' themselves are using, so that is WHY I want to KNOW 'their' definition for that word.
What 'hell' is, and WHY it is a state of torture and/or a state without God, plus a multitude of other things can ALL be explained fully, in a very simple and easy to understand logical and reasonable way, which can be tested for validity and soundness, and when doing so the Truth and Reality of things come to light to also.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
How are you defining the word 'evil' here first?
There is no definition for evil. We just categorize our actions into good and evil. An example of evil action is killing.
So, what you are really asking is; Where is the origin of 'some thing' that there is no definition for?
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
There is a fairly common story out already, which explains when this began, but I will await your definition of 'evil' first.
Okay. How did it start?
Considering you did not give a definition for the word 'evil', then it makes it somewhat harder to explain to you when 'some thing' with no definition began, HOWEVER, let me say that doing 'evil' is just doing 'what is wrong' or 'not good'.
Now, when human beings began doing 'what is wrong' or 'not good' is when they did the opposite of 'what they knew was good'. When human beings started 'doing wrong' is when 'evil' began.
There is a story about how this began. A woman KNEW that 'it was wrong' to do some thing, 'like touch and eat some thing that was KNOWN not to be touched or eaten, yet still went ahead and did it. Since then adult human beings have been continually 'doing wrong' or 'doing what they KNOW they are not meant to', or just 'doing the opposite of what they KNOW is the right thing to do'.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
The answer to this is all dependent upon your definitions for words.
I already give one example of evil.
Giving an example of 'evil' is NOT defining what the word 'evil' actually means.
Are you aware that you are KILLING every day? Or, that you are even allowing the KILLING of human beings EVERY day?
Are you an 'evil' person for doing so?
If a person has the correct and proper definitions for the words they are using, PRIOR to using those words, like they KNOW what they are talking about, then this helps them in being better understood and being fully understood.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
I will not ask you to define the word 'God', but what evidence do you have that humans have an 'evil' nature?
There are murderers. Look at history of humans to see the many cases of wars.
So, you say humans have an 'evil' nature. When you say this do you mean ALL human beings or only some?
If you say only some, then do you REALLY BELIEVE that a thing called God would only created SOME human beings with this so called 'evil' "nature"?
To me this is really a rather ridiculous thing to even suggest that the "nature" of a species is only given to SOME of that species.
You are also falling to that very common flaw of the adult human being of classing some people as some thing, like "murderers", as though this is only what they do.
Now, either ALL human beings have a 'nature', which is 'evil' or they ALL do not. Or, they ALL have a 'nature', which is good, or they ALL do not have this 'nature'. So, which is it to you?
Obviously there can NOT be a 'human nature' as it is called, but only SOME human beings get it and have it.
To me, from what I have observed is, ALL adult human beings do what is right AS WELL AS do what is wrong. To me, the nature of human beings, which separates them from ALL other animals species, is ALL human beings have
the ability to learn, understand, and reason (any and every thing). No other animal has this
ability or
nature.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
I will await your definition for the word 'evil', and see how it relates to any evidence provided.
Ok, I am waiting for you now.
Okay, just let me know if there is more that you would like from me.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
If this is what you say and believe, then that is what is must be, to you.
But, to me, God creates human beings with the absolute freedom to choose to do whatever they so choose to do, and God is responsible for this creation. But, to me, this is NOT an 'evil' act all. If adult human beings do not want to take fully responsibility for what they choose to do, then passing blame onto some thing else, like God, is NOT going to achieve any thing at all.
Yes, responsibility is what is taught with the society.
Anything can be taught through words, but children mostly follow actions.
Only WHEN adults ever start taking full responsibility, then that is only WHEN children will grow up doing the same. Hitherto, when this is written, this has NOT yet taken place.
Since the exact same time that, so called, "sinning" and/or "evil" began, 'you', adult human beings, have NOT been taking full responsibility for your wrong "actions" or behaviors. After the woman could not control her greedy ways and so touched and tasted what was KNOWN 'to be wrong', and then passed it onto the male, who also touched and tasted 'that', what was KNOWN to 'not be good', this type of greedy and passing blame behaviors have not really changed at all among 'you', adult human beings. Even when the accusation was made that he had done wrong, in the beginning, he instantly blamed some thing or some one else for what he actually chose and DID. Obviously she did NOT 'make him' 'touch and eat' or do the 'forbidden'. He obviously chose to do that himself.
bahman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:11 pmThe reality is that each person has good and evil nature. Whether we do good and evil is situational. We, of course, are free to choose too.
So, if this is the 'reality', then what exactly is this 'good and evil nature' that you now say ALL human beings have. And, WHY the 'trying to' blame some thing [a God] for this supposed 'good and evil nature'?
When a sound and valid explanation of what this 'good and evil nature' IS exactly, and HOW ALL human beings have obtained this so called "nature" (and whether any other animals have this "nature"), is also explained, then we will see just how much Truth is in what is expressed.