"Atheists Killed >140 millions" is Fallacious

[Veritas Aequitas]

In point of fact, religions have had varying effects on people; but Christianity in particular, and Judaism as well, despite their imperfections, have had overwhelmingly positive effects on human history.
One religion has caused as much misery as all other religions put together: that's Islam.
But by contrast, even Islam cannot compare to the ideology that has had the most negative impact, by orders of magnitude, in all of history. And those were the Atheist regimes. None other has killed even a fraction so many people as the various such regimes, especially the Communist ones, which were the most-ardently Atheist.

How ironic! The Atheist wants to tell the world about the evils of "religion": whereas, Atheists have killed over 140 million people in the last century alone!

Those are just the facts: that so few people in the modern West are even cognizant of those facts is really a testimony to how little people actually know about it...and how absurdly effective anti-religious propaganda has proved to be in the West.

As usual you are insulting your own intelligence and committing a shit load of fallacies.
While you differentiated the religionists from Islam from other religionists, you did a blanket and broad-sweep with atheists.

Here from Bard [with reservations] on the shit load of fallacies you have committed.

..................
1. False Analogy: Attributing the actions of atheistic communist dictators to all atheists is like saying all Christians are crusaders because some historical Christian leaders engaged in crusades. It unfairly draws a sweeping generalization based on a specific historical context and ideology, not on atheism itself.

2. Guilt by Association: Even if some historical figures identified as atheist committed atrocities, that doesn't make all atheists guilty by association. Judging individuals based on a group they belong to, regardless of their personal beliefs and actions, is a clear fallacy.

3. [Hasty Generalization: Jumping to the conclusion that all atheists are violent based on a few examples is a classic case of hasty generalization. It ignores the vast diversity of beliefs and values among atheists and the complex historical and political factors that contributed to the actions of the dictators mentioned.

4. Appeal to Emotion: Linking atheism to violence without evidence can be seen as an attempt to evoke fear or prejudice against atheists. This tactic relies on manipulating emotions rather than logical reasoning.

5. False cause: Assuming that atheism directly caused the violence of these dictators, ignoring the complex historical and political factors at play.

6. Guilt by association: Assuming that any individual who shares a characteristic with another group (in this case, atheism) is also responsible for the actions of that group, regardless of their personal beliefs or actions.

7. Equivocation: Confusing different meanings of the same term. In this case, using the term "atheist" to encompass both individual beliefs and political ideologies, despite the vast diversity within both categories.

8. Causal Fallacy: The statement assumes a causal link between atheism and violence, implying that atheism inherently leads to killing. This is a false correlation, as many other factors contribute to violence and oppression, including political and economic systems.

9. Ad hominem: This fallacy attacks a person or group based on their characteristics rather than their arguments. Attributing violence to all atheists based on the actions of a few individuals is an ad hominem attack.

In addition to these specific fallacies, it's worth noting that attributing deaths solely to atheism [with a broad stroke] is overly simplistic and ignores the multitude of other factors that contribute to violence and conflict throughout history.
...............


IC had committed the above shit load of fallacies with his,
"Atheists have killed over 140 million people in the last century alone!"

[Veritas Aequitas]

In some ways, more than 200 million killings can be associated with religionists since religions emerged within humanity.
But to insist,
"religionists had killed >200 million" as above, is fallacious with the above fallacies.

Even where the crusaders had killed Muslims, it has nothing to do with Christianity nor as Christians , rather it is driven by their human sense.
The religion that has to be blamed with mass killing by religionists is where the constitution of the religion obligate believers to kill non-believers, e.g. as in Islam [no other major religion has imposed such an evil obligation]

[promethean75]

That is a shit load, IC.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Pretty well covered. Also, all that killing wasn't in the name of 'atheism'. In Stalin's case you might as well say he slaughtered people because he had a moustache. He needed to quickly turn a country of peasants into a military and industrial super power --inflicting enormous suffering among his own people while he went about it. Dictators are notorious mass murderers. They do it because they can. Stalin's own daughter had to flee the country because she was sure she was next on his hit list. It's debateable that Stalin was even an atheist. He wanted to join the priesthood at one stage. The 'atheism' thing was just a political tool to reduce the power base of the Church and take it for themselves.

[promethean75]

8azom4.jpg (23.76 KiB) Viewed 42798 times

[Immanuel Can]

Marx called the critique of religion "the first critique." Without Atheism, Marxism was an absolute no-go, and he knew it. Thus, the Reds in Russia, the Maoists, the Cubans, the Venezuelans, the Zimbabweans, the Congolese, the Khymer Rouge, the North Vietnamese and the North Koreans, the Romanians, Bulgarians, the Albanians, and all the other similar homicidal regimes throughout the last century that have been Communist were Atheistic, and could be nothing else.

140 million is thus a very charitable figure to cite. It was almost certainly more.

Sorry VA...whether you like the facts or not, that what your boys have done.

[Peter Kropotkin]

ok, I disagree with the notion that Atheists killed 140 million people,
but, let us think about this...

I can't work out how you even got this number of 140 million...
we can't use WW1, because virtually every state in WW1,
was religious...From England to Germany and France, to Russia, every single
player in WW1, was either Catholic or Protestant, or in the case of Russia,
Greek Orthodox... and I am not sure how one breaks out WW2 causalities...
cause many of the players in WW2, were still religious... England and France,
Italy, for example were still religious.. and despite having a hatred for
Jews, Germany was still highly religious... the south, Bavaria for example,
has been Catholic for hundred of years...and in the north, the Protestants
still went to church.. so I am not sure how you would rank Germany
as being Atheist... (Heidegger was Catholic and would be all his life)
and so that would leave Russia, China and Japan....the Japanese
are not and never have been an Atheist country... they hold to the
Shinto religion, and other such religions.. the same goes for China,
and then we reach Mother Russia... and here we see a common
point, in which the leadership of a country is one thing and the
vast majority of the country is another thing...

the leadership of Russia may have been Atheistic but the country
itself was very religious...and when the dam broke and communism
fell, public religion returned to Russia.. the average person in Russia
I would bet is still fairly religious...

so, how would you break out the numbers of Atheists country and
their death rate? how do you get 140 million people dying from Atheism?

Kropotkin

[Immanuel Can]

ok, I disagree with the notion that Atheists killed 140 million people,
but, let us think about this...

I can't work out how you even got this number of 140 million...

Okay, Peter. Let's say you can't. I think you could, but as a Communist yourself, you're bound not to want to. In your shoes, I wouldn't want to know about what Communism has done, either. So I'd do all I can to try to make excuses for what those regimes had done, because they've turned every single place where Communism has been implemented into starving Hell-holes of human-rights abuses and economic disaster, like Venezuela, Ukraine, Cuba, Cambodia, Albania...and on, and on, and on.

But let's play along with that game. So let's ask, "What would the RIGHT number be?" You hope it's not at least 140 million. Okay, let's pretend it's not. Let's go with 100 million. That would still be vast orders of magnitude above all the "religious" disasters in history.

So let's say that's too high. Let's say we're off by half. What about only 70 million? The same remains true: still orders of magnitude worse than anything else.

How about we say even that's too high? Let's say that only Mao was a REAL Communist, and Stalin wasn't, and Pol Pot wasn't, and Castro wasn't, and Maduro wasn't, and the Kim Jongs weren't, and Mugabe wasn't, and so on. (They might protest, and they might well insist that theirs was true Communism. But let's tell them to shut up and take it: Communists always want to argue that everybody else "wasn't real Communism" anyway, so let's keep playing that game, right along with the Communist apologists.)

Then what's the case? Well, Mao alone killed over 40 million of his own people -- that we know of -- in his Cultural Revolution. So the misery and death caused by Communism is still orders of magnitude greater than that done by any religion ever, or by all put together.

There's no escaping it: Communism is simply the biggest force for evil in the history of the human race, bar none, with no rivals even close. And every Communist regime, by Marx's own account, is Atheist.

QED.

[promethean75]

Btw veggies i thought u were a rancid old foul mouthed curmudgeon who didn't care one iota about politics or history unless it involved wonkers murdering babies. What are u doin readin up on stalin and the russian pseudo-revolution? That little joint u dropped was impressive, bruh.

[Sculptor]

Not ONE person have ever been killed in the name of Atheism.

Atheists kill, but not for any belief system.
All Immmental Cant is doing is drwing attention to the fact that religion does kill in its name.

[Immanuel Can]

...the russian pseudo-revolution?

I think this is hilarious, and so, so typical of Communist apologists. Their first defense is always, "That wasn't real Communism." How surprised those millions of Bolsheviks must be to find out they got it all wrong...and the Maoists...and the Kymer Rouge...everybody had a "pseudo-revolution," not a real one...except for Prom, who knows what a real revolution would look like (unlike those stupid Russians and Chinese and so forth) and Prom would advocate only the real kind.

So hubristic! So vapid. So implausible.

[promethean75]

"All Immmental Cant is doing is drwing attention to the fact that religion does kill in its name."

Holy shit you're right. Think about it. An atheist wouldn't kill becuz there is no god, but becuz he won't burn in hell if he does.... becuz there is no god. It's not the same thing.

The religious, on the other hand, do kill becuz god exists. The muhfucka even commands them to kill in some instances.

[Skepdick]

Not ONE person have ever been killed in the name of Atheism.

Atheism was literally the official government policy in the Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E ... st_atheism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuti ... #Estimates

According to some sources, the total number of Christian victims under the Soviet regime has been estimated to range around 12 to 20 million.[139][140] At least 106,300 Russian clergymen were executed between 1937 and 1941.

[nemos]

It's quite strange to watch you arguing about which of the killers is whiter. It seems to me that a murderer remains a murderer regardless of whether he hides behind a political or religious idea. It doesn't matter that some have killed less and others more, the main thing is that they do it, and this means that with time, the number will not decrease but will grow.
No matter how good an idea you try to implement, real people will adjust it according to their needs. It is not so important which system to choose, as which people will implement it. Laws are needed to circumvent them, and the power-hungry will seek power, not the worthy.
And the Christian religion is aggressive and pushy, like anything that tries to preach the only truth, and don't try to whitewash it.

[henry quirk]

Let's talk about likelihood...

Joe thinks man, any man (including himself) is nuthin' but meat. He's certain life, the universe, and everything is an amoral, rudderless event.

Stan thinks man, every man (including himself) is sumthin' more than meat. He's certain life, the universe, and everything is meaningful, purposeful, intended.

Of the two, who's more likely to kill cuz it's convenient?