What "side" are you on?

[Age]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

K: against my better judgement, I'll bite... when you say "'this, obviously, wrong
and incorrect misbehavior' can be seen, very clearly, in just about
every thread in this forum"

I don't see that at all... but of course, given your ''clearly higher moral standards'',
you must see more than I do, so, please explain in English, why you are right
about this? Instead of telling us we are wrong, explain exactly why we are wrong....
and why you are right..
it should be very easy with someone of your ''clear higher moral standards"
to make this argument....so why are we wrong?

Kropotkin

[Age]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

K: against my better judgement,

Could 'this' be a sign of one having a so-called 'higher moral standard'?

I'll bite... when you say "'this, obviously, wrong
and incorrect misbehavior' can be seen, very clearly, in just about
every thread in this forum"

I don't see that at all...

Okay, but do NOT FORGET there are a LOT of 'things' that WERE, ONCE, NOT PREVIOUSLY SEEN but which COME-TO-LIGHT, later on.

but of course, given your ''clearly higher moral standards'',

BUT, there are NO such 'things' as 'higher moral standards'.

Either one thinks, and does 'things', IN 'morally Right', OR, 'morally Wrong' WAYS.

And, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY WHEN one KNOWS, FOR CERTAINLY, what IS 'morally Right', AND, morally Wrong', IN Life, THEN, and ONLY THEN, can that one BEHAVE, 'appropriately'.

you must see more than I do, so, please explain in English, why you are right
about this?

1. What, EXACTLY, is 'this', which 'you' CLAIM 'I' am right about?

2. WHY MUST 'I' see MORE than 'you' do? Does NOT EVERY one just 'see' 'things' DIFFERENTLY, anyway?

3. 'your' USE of the 'English' word could be inferred as 'you' BELIEVE that I have NEVER spoken in 'english', previously in this forum.

Instead of telling us we are wrong,

WHEN have I EVER SAID, or even just IMPLIED, that 'you' are wrong?

For your information, and so that 'you' BECOME AWARE, I have NEVER EVER SAID that 'you' are wrong. In fact I have NEVER even IMPLIED 'that', let alone EVER even 'thinking' that 'you' are wrong.

one just HAS TO LOOK AT the ACTUAL WORDS that I HAVE USED throughout this forum to CONFIRM that I have NEVER EVER SAID, NOR IMPLIED, that 'you' are wrong.

Even the words above here, which MAYBE WHERE 'you' have MADE 'your' Wrong ASSUMPTION here, what can be CLEARLY SEEN IS that I SAID that 'you', human beings, ARE DOING IS Wrong, AND Incorrect. Which, NEVER EVER even IMPLIES that 'you' are wrong, let alone TELLS 'you' that 'you' are wrong.

'These people', back then, REALLY WOULD JUMP to some of the WEIRDEST and STRANGEST CONCLUSIONS, based sometimes SOLELY UPON their Wrong AND Incorrect MADE UP ASSUMPTIONS, WHEN they just read SOME WORDS. As CLEARLY SHOWN and PROVED True, ONCE MORE here.

explain exactly why we are wrong....

There is NO 'human being' who is wrong.

However, and OBVIOUSLY, some of the 'behavior' of what ALL of 'you', adult human beings, DO is Wrong. Or, are 'you' UNDER some SORT OF DELUSION that 'you', and/or some "others", do NOT DO Wrong?

and why you are right..

In regards to 'what', EXACTLY?

it should be very easy with someone of your ''clear higher moral standards"
to make this argument....

To make 'what' 'argument'?

And, what ARE these so-called 'higher moral standards', of 'mine', EXACTLY, which 'you' REPORTEDLY are ABLE TO CLEARLY SEE?

so why are we wrong?

Kropotkin

BUT 'you', human beings, have NEVER EVER been 'wrong', and could NOT and WILL NOT EVER be 'wrong'. Well NOT FROM 'my perspective' anyway.

'you', however, may DISAGREE.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

K: against my better judgement,

Could 'this' be a sign of one having a so-called 'higher moral standard'?

I'll bite... when you say "'this, obviously, wrong
and incorrect misbehavior' can be seen, very clearly, in just about
every thread in this forum"

I don't see that at all...

Okay, but do NOT FORGET there are a LOT of 'things' that WERE, ONCE, NOT PREVIOUSLY SEEN but which COME-TO-LIGHT, later on.

but of course, given your ''clearly higher moral standards'',

BUT, there are NO such 'things' as 'higher moral standards'.

Either one thinks, and does 'things', IN 'morally Right', OR, 'morally Wrong' WAYS.

And, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY WHEN one KNOWS, FOR CERTAINLY, what IS 'morally Right', AND, morally Wrong', IN Life, THEN, and ONLY THEN, can that one BEHAVE, 'appropriately'.

you must see more than I do, so, please explain in English, why you are right
about this?

1. What, EXACTLY, is 'this', which 'you' CLAIM 'I' am right about?

2. WHY MUST 'I' see MORE than 'you' do? Does NOT EVERY one just 'see' 'things' DIFFERENTLY, anyway?

3. 'your' USE of the 'English' word could be inferred as 'you' BELIEVE that I have NEVER spoken in 'english', previously in this forum.

Instead of telling us we are wrong,

WHEN have I EVER SAID, or even just IMPLIED, that 'you' are wrong?

For your information, and so that 'you' BECOME AWARE, I have NEVER EVER SAID that 'you' are wrong. In fact I have NEVER even IMPLIED 'that', let alone EVER even 'thinking' that 'you' are wrong.

one just HAS TO LOOK AT the ACTUAL WORDS that I HAVE USED throughout this forum to CONFIRM that I have NEVER EVER SAID, NOR IMPLIED, that 'you' are wrong.

Even the words above here, which MAYBE WHERE 'you' have MADE 'your' Wrong ASSUMPTION here, what can be CLEARLY SEEN IS that I SAID that 'you', human beings, ARE DOING IS Wrong, AND Incorrect. Which, NEVER EVER even IMPLIES that 'you' are wrong, let alone TELLS 'you' that 'you' are wrong.

'These people', back then, REALLY WOULD JUMP to some of the WEIRDEST and STRANGEST CONCLUSIONS, based sometimes SOLELY UPON their Wrong AND Incorrect MADE UP ASSUMPTIONS, WHEN they just read SOME WORDS. As CLEARLY SHOWN and PROVED True, ONCE MORE here.

explain exactly why we are wrong....

There is NO 'human being' who is wrong.

However, and OBVIOUSLY, some of the 'behavior' of what ALL of 'you', adult human beings, DO is Wrong. Or, are 'you' UNDER some SORT OF DELUSION that 'you', and/or some "others", do NOT DO Wrong?

and why you are right..

In regards to 'what', EXACTLY?

it should be very easy with someone of your ''clear higher moral standards"
to make this argument....

To make 'what' 'argument'?

And, what ARE these so-called 'higher moral standards', of 'mine', EXACTLY, which 'you' REPORTEDLY are ABLE TO CLEARLY SEE?

so why are we wrong?

Kropotkin

BUT 'you', human beings, have NEVER EVER been 'wrong', and could NOT and WILL NOT EVER be 'wrong'. Well NOT FROM 'my perspective' anyway.

'you', however, may DISAGREE.

K: why am I not surprised... you made a very, very long post and said nothing,
nothing at all... I wonder why I even bothered? a glutton for punishment, maybe?
and I got that for sure....reading your post/threads isn't that different than
being tortured... I should have known better...

Kropotkin

[Age]

K: against my better judgement,

Could 'this' be a sign of one having a so-called 'higher moral standard'?

I'll bite... when you say "'this, obviously, wrong
and incorrect misbehavior' can be seen, very clearly, in just about
every thread in this forum"

I don't see that at all...

Okay, but do NOT FORGET there are a LOT of 'things' that WERE, ONCE, NOT PREVIOUSLY SEEN but which COME-TO-LIGHT, later on.

but of course, given your ''clearly higher moral standards'',

BUT, there are NO such 'things' as 'higher moral standards'.

Either one thinks, and does 'things', IN 'morally Right', OR, 'morally Wrong' WAYS.

And, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY WHEN one KNOWS, FOR CERTAINLY, what IS 'morally Right', AND, morally Wrong', IN Life, THEN, and ONLY THEN, can that one BEHAVE, 'appropriately'.

you must see more than I do, so, please explain in English, why you are right
about this?

1. What, EXACTLY, is 'this', which 'you' CLAIM 'I' am right about?

2. WHY MUST 'I' see MORE than 'you' do? Does NOT EVERY one just 'see' 'things' DIFFERENTLY, anyway?

3. 'your' USE of the 'English' word could be inferred as 'you' BELIEVE that I have NEVER spoken in 'english', previously in this forum.

Instead of telling us we are wrong,

WHEN have I EVER SAID, or even just IMPLIED, that 'you' are wrong?

For your information, and so that 'you' BECOME AWARE, I have NEVER EVER SAID that 'you' are wrong. In fact I have NEVER even IMPLIED 'that', let alone EVER even 'thinking' that 'you' are wrong.

one just HAS TO LOOK AT the ACTUAL WORDS that I HAVE USED throughout this forum to CONFIRM that I have NEVER EVER SAID, NOR IMPLIED, that 'you' are wrong.

Even the words above here, which MAYBE WHERE 'you' have MADE 'your' Wrong ASSUMPTION here, what can be CLEARLY SEEN IS that I SAID that 'you', human beings, ARE DOING IS Wrong, AND Incorrect. Which, NEVER EVER even IMPLIES that 'you' are wrong, let alone TELLS 'you' that 'you' are wrong.

'These people', back then, REALLY WOULD JUMP to some of the WEIRDEST and STRANGEST CONCLUSIONS, based sometimes SOLELY UPON their Wrong AND Incorrect MADE UP ASSUMPTIONS, WHEN they just read SOME WORDS. As CLEARLY SHOWN and PROVED True, ONCE MORE here.

explain exactly why we are wrong....

There is NO 'human being' who is wrong.

However, and OBVIOUSLY, some of the 'behavior' of what ALL of 'you', adult human beings, DO is Wrong. Or, are 'you' UNDER some SORT OF DELUSION that 'you', and/or some "others", do NOT DO Wrong?

and why you are right..

In regards to 'what', EXACTLY?

it should be very easy with someone of your ''clear higher moral standards"
to make this argument....

To make 'what' 'argument'?

And, what ARE these so-called 'higher moral standards', of 'mine', EXACTLY, which 'you' REPORTEDLY are ABLE TO CLEARLY SEE?

so why are we wrong?

Kropotkin

BUT 'you', human beings, have NEVER EVER been 'wrong', and could NOT and WILL NOT EVER be 'wrong'. Well NOT FROM 'my perspective' anyway.

'you', however, may DISAGREE.

K: why am I not surprised... you made a very, very long post and said nothing,
nothing at all... I wonder why I even bothered? a glutton for punishment, maybe?
and I got that for sure....reading your post/threads isn't that different than
being tortured... I should have known better...

Kropotkin

ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER example of how ATTEMPTS AT DEFLECTION ARE 'TRIED', WHEN one's views/beliefs have been SHOWN to BE False, Wrong, Inaccurate, or Incorrect, ONCE MORE.

Out of ALL I SAID and WROTE here NOT even just ONE 'rebut' was even 'TRIED' and 'ATTEMPTED', OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I SAID and WROTE here COULD BE 'rebutted'. Just ONLY DEFLECTION and DECEPTION WAS ATTEMPTED, and TRIED, INSTEAD.

[LuckyR]

K: why am I not surprised... you made a very, very long post and said nothing,
nothing at all... I wonder why I even bothered? a glutton for punishment, maybe?
and I got that for sure....reading your post/threads isn't that different than
being tortured... I should have known better...

Kropotkin

Yeah, one keeps hoping against hope that there will be some “there” there. But so far there isn’t. Don’t beat yourself up for being an optimist. It’s in your nature.

[Iwannaplato]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct. Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

We accept for the moment this is the case and look at this post/thread of yours in that context.

What is this thread doing?

First, it is judging everyone here negatively.
Second, it implies that the author does not do this.
So, we have a I/Them split present.
Then this is connect to conflicts and wars.

It is presented at a general level. A general negative assessment of everyone here, who are judged to only take one perspective and one side.

So, now we have another conflict started. One person Age implies that everyone here shares certain characteristics which Age does not have.

And so into the mix of conflicts and perspectives, held by people here who are judged to only take one perspective on each issue, a new us/them with heavy judgments at a very abstract level is tossed.

I do recognize that you have gone into specific issues, often asking a lot of questions, at the specific issue level.

If someone is supposed to be saavy about human psychology and the root of problems and conflict, how could they at the same time think that a general abstract blaming judgment of everyone here is going to help matters?

It seems like that is Age's goal: to help matters. To help people notice that they assume many things and don't actually try to find out what is going on. That they take sides and come at discussions with a lot of assumptions. Age would like that to be less the case.

That seems like a good goal to me.

But can this thread, given Age's own assessment of the situation, really improv the situation, given that it aims a general, negative assessment at everyone here?

And then a more general question....

Any approach to making things better or helping people includes implicit assumptions about what process will do this. One chooses this approach and not others. One presumably chooses an approach that one thinks will be effective and perhaps most moral or kindest. Whatever the criteria one has ideas about what will work and these ideas are based on knowledge or at least ideas about the people addressed. Given that they are like X, I choose to approach them like this.....

Now the general question: How is it going with your approach, Age? Does it seem like it is helping? Is it possible that your approach in general, here, and the assumptions it is grounded on, is not the best approach? How might your approach be improved? What are the assumptions you have or beliefs or guidelines or ideas that have led you to post here in the way you do and ask the questions you ask and communicate in the ways you do? Do you do assessments of this, from time to time? What have you learned about yourself, not us, during these assessments?

Could there be any merit in the reactions people tend to have in relation to your approach here?

And given that it seems like, in any case, you want to communicate with us, how could you possibly adjust your approach, if it doesn't seem to be having the effects you might want or think would be good?

I ask because after all this time, it seems you have a negative judgment here of everyone....everyone. So, perhaps your approach hasn't worked so well. Of course, you are not responsible for how people respond. On the other hand it seems implicit that you have or think you have a great deal of knowledge about things you consider very important. And yet, it seems to me, you are not communicating in ways that are making the changes you hope to make.

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

[Age]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct.

Are you referring to ANY one of my assessments here in particular?

Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

Are you here 'trying to' suggest that there are SOME 'things' that ALL of 'you', posters, here do NOT LOOK AT from "one-side" or the "other-side"?

If yes, then 'what', EXACTLY is 'that thing', or 'things'?

Also, I NEVER said that EVERY one only looks at one side of things. I also NEVER said that EVERY one does NOT look at things through other perspectives.

'you', posters, here REALLY DO NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE 'you' WITHOUT MAKING ANY ASSUMPTIONS AT ALL. As DOING SO can all too EASILY and all too SIMPLY lead 'you' COMPLETELY ASTRAY. As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED True here, ONCE MORE.

We accept for the moment this is the case and look at this post/thread of yours in that context.

What is this thread doing?

The thread, itself, does NOTHING. However, what 'you', human beings, DO, individually, with ANY 'thing', is SOLELY up to 'your' CHOICE, ALONE.

First, it is judging everyone here negatively.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Here we have ANOTHER COMPLETE and UTTER Wrong ASSUMPTION made, ONCE AGAIN.

Which is just FURTHER PROOF of WHY PRESUMING 'things', BEFORE OBTAIN ACTUAL and FULL CLARIFICATION IS just ANOTHER Wrong 'misbehavior' made by 'you', adult human beings.

By the way, NO 'judgment' WAS MADE, let alone ANY so-called 'negative judgment'.

For example, if I was to SAY, BACK in the days, (when ONLY one human being was SAYING and CLAIMING that 'the earth revolves around the sun), TO 'the people' who SAW or BELIEVED otherwise, 'Can 'you', people, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?' THEN, there would be, ONCE AGAIN, NO 'judgment' being made, and CERTAINLY NO so-called 'negative judgment' AT ALL.

I am just ASKING a CLARIFYING QUESTION, to OBTAIN and GAIN ACTUAL FULL CLARITY.

Also, if absolutely ANY one thinks or BELIEVES that 'that QUESTION' in those two situations somehow IMPLIES a 'negative behavior', on the part of some here, then WHY does 'that one' SEE 'that misbehavior' as being 'negative'?

Second, it implies that the author does not do this.

BUT, what I SAID, and WROTE, here did NOT 'imply' ANY such 'thing' AT ALL. If, however, 'you' 'inferred' 'that', then 'that' is a completely separate 'thing'.

So, we have a I/Them split present.

Is 'this' a REAL ISSUE here. Or, do 'you' think or BELIEVE that 'children' are somehow the CAUSE of 'human warring'. If 'I' SEPARATE, or SPLIT, 'those' who CAUSE 'wars' FROM 'those' who DO NOT and CAN NOT, then is 'this' REALLY AN ISSUE, FOR 'you'?

Then this is connect to conflicts and wars.

I do NOT KNOW what this sentence MEANS nor IS REFERRING TO, EXACTLY.

It is presented at a general level.

What is, supposedly, presented at a, so-called, 'general level'?

A general negative assessment of everyone here, who are judged to only take one perspective and one side.

WHY do 'you' USE the 'everyone' word, especially considering the ACTUAL WORD that I had CHOSEN, and USED?

And, WHY do 'you' PRESUME that I have made A 'general negative assessment' here?

If I do POINT OUT and SHOW what a 'group of people' ACTUALLY DO, then HOW and WHY does some PRESUMPTION get MADE that there is some sort of 'negativity' being IMPLIED?

So, now we have another conflict started. One person Age implies that everyone here shares certain characteristics which Age does not have.

'This PRESUMPTION of 'yours' here "iwannaplato" is Wrong, ONCE AGAIN.

It IS this CONTINUAL PRESUMING and ASSUMING which is WHY it TOOK 'these human beings', BACK in 'those days', SO LONG to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD TOWARDS WHERE 'human beings', eventually, DO 'END UP'.

And so into the mix of conflicts and perspectives, held by people here who are judged to only take one perspective on each issue, a new us/them with heavy judgments at a very abstract level is tossed.

Here we can CLEARLY SEEN HOW FROM one FIRST PRESUMPTION being Wrong LEADS to FURTHER and FURTHER Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Which HAS COMPLETELY and UTTERLY DETRACTED FROM what WAS being POINTED OUT and SHOWN, in the beginning. Which WAS, LOOKING AT and SEEING 'things' FROM "one-side" ONLY IS A Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior'. Just like ASSUMING 'things' BEFORE ACTUAL and FULLY CLARITY IS OBTAINED FIRST IS ANOTHER Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior' of the 'adult human being'.

I do recognize that you have gone into specific issues, often asking a lot of questions, at the specific issue level.

If someone is supposed to be saavy about human psychology and the root of problems and conflict, how could they at the same time think that a general abstract blaming judgment of everyone here is going to help matters?

BUT, absolutely NO 'general abstract blaming judgment of EVERY one here' has EVER been made. Well NOT by 'me' anyway.

But, PLEASE REMEMBER that 'you' are ABSOLUTELY FREE to ASSUME and BELIEVE absolutely ANY 'thing' you like and/or want to.

It seems like that is Age's goal: to help matters. To help people notice that they assume many things and don't actually try to find out what is going on. That they take sides and come at discussions with a lot of assumptions. Age would like that to be less the case.

Now WHY would 'you' ASSUME that 'i' would like 'that' to be less the case?

The Fact IS the MORE 'you' do 'that', then MORE EXAMPLES, and PROOF, of WHY doing 'that' IS A Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior'.

That seems like a good goal to me.

Okay.

But can this thread, given Age's own assessment of the situation, really improv the situation, given that it aims a general, negative assessment at everyone here?

1. But it has NEVER been 'I' who USED the 'everyone' word here. ONLY 'you', "iwannaplato", introduced 'that word', here.

2. 'Trying to' RALLY 'a group' of "others" to BANDY WITH 'you', AGAINST "another" is REALLY NOT the BEST WAY to PRODUCE a CONDUCIVE WAY of living in Peace AND Harmony WITH and FOR "others". BUT, if 'you' NEED people ON "your-side" here "iwannaplato", then 'I', for One, will NEVER STOP NOR PREVENT 'you' from GARNISHING SUPPORT here. But, if 'you' would like to 'now' SAY that 'this' is NOT what 'you' are 'trying to' DO here, then are 'you' ABSOLUTELY SURE?

3. Also, 'this thread' is NOT 'aiming' to give a 'general, negative assessment at ANY one here, let alone EVERY one'. So, 'your' ASSUMPTION, and/or BELIEF, here is False, Wrong, AND Incorrect ONCE AGAIN. I WAS and AM just PRESENTING 'assessment/s' FROM 'my perspective'.

4. ONLY through SEEKING OUT and GAINING CLARIFICATION could ANY one of 'you' WORK OUT and FIND OUT, EXACTLY, 'the aim' of 'this thread'.

And then a more general question....

Any approach to making things better or helping people includes implicit assumptions about what process will do this. One chooses this approach and not others. One presumably chooses an approach that one thinks will be effective and perhaps most moral or kindest. Whatever the criteria one has ideas about what will work and these ideas are based on knowledge or at least ideas about the people addressed. Given that they are like X, I choose to approach them like this.....

AGAIN, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is just HOW LOOKING AT 'things' FROM PREEXISTING ASSUMPTIONS or PRESUMPTIONS can CLOUD or FOG what can BE FURTHER LEARNED and/or SEEN AHEAD.

Now the general question: How is it going with your approach, Age?

DIFFERENT, and BETTER, than 'i' FIRST 'thought'.

Does it seem like it is helping?

VERY MUCH SO.

Is it possible that your approach in general, here, and the assumptions it is grounded on, is not the best approach?

What 'assumption' are 'you' talking ABOUT and REFERRING TO here "iwannaplato"?

There may well be BETTER 'approaches', but 'this one' is SUFFICE, for 'now' anyway.

How might your approach be improved?

By LEARNING MORE, in QUICKER 'time', about HOW to COMMUNICATE BETTER WITH 'you', human beings.

BUT, there is ABSOLUTELY RUSH here needed, NOR even wanted. So, 'things' are proceeding along JUST Right, NOW.

What are the assumptions you have or beliefs or guidelines or ideas that have led you to post here in the way you do and ask the questions you ask and communicate in the ways you do?

There are/were NO 'assumptions' NOR 'beliefs' that I have/had that led 'me' to post here. An 'idea' though is about living in Peace and Harmony, as One.

In case 'you' are STILL NOT YET AWARE I am here, in this forum, to LEARN HOW to BETTER 'communicate' WITH 'you', human beings. Well 'that' and to ACHIEVE what I have SET OUT TO ACHIEVE.

Do you do assessments of this, from time to time?

NO, in regards to ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, BECAUSE there are/were NO ASSUMPTIONS NOR BELIEFS.

BUT YES, in regards to OTHER 'things'.

What have you learned about yourself, not us, during these assessments?

I LEARNED, and thus HAD ALREADY GAINED and OBTAINED, the ANSWER to the QUESTION, 'Who am 'I'?' BEFORE I came into this forum.

I had ALSO LEARNED, and UNDERSTOOD, how the term and phrase "yourself" is an OXYMORON and SELF-CONTRADICTORY term/phrase.

Could there be any merit in the reactions people tend to have in relation to your approach here?

The 'reactions' 'you', people, have provided here have, and are, WORKING, PERFECTLY, FROM 'my perspective', and FOR 'the goal' I have SET here.

And given that it seems like, in any case, you want to communicate with us, how could you possibly adjust your approach, if it doesn't seem to be having the effects you might want or think would be good?

WHERE, and WHY, would 'you' have even BEGUN TO OBTAIN the PRESUMPTION and ASSUMPTION that 'the effects' that I would want or that would be 'good' IS NOT OCCURRING and HAPPENING here?

The 'effects' that 'you', responders here, have been PROVIDING, for ALL of 'us' to LOOK AT and SEE has been BETTER than i wanted. In fact ALL of 'your' Honest responses here have been, literally, PERFECT.

I ask because after all this time, it seems you have a negative judgment here of everyone....everyone.

Although 'you' CONTINUE TO SAY 'this', and so appear to BELIEVE 'this' to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE, 'you' could NOT BE MORE Wrong, NOR Incorrect, even if 'you' WANTED TO BE.

And, to PROVE just HOW Wrong 'your' VIEW or BELIEF IS here, one just has to LOOK THROUGH MY WORDS here for 'this' to be VERIFIED and CONFIRMED.

So, perhaps your approach hasn't worked so well.

BUT, from my perspective it is working PERFECTLY WELL. And, it could be SAID or ARGUED working even BETTER than EXPECTED.

Of course, you are not responsible for how people respond. On the other hand it seems implicit that you have or think you have a great deal of knowledge about things you consider very important. And yet, it seems to me, you are not communicating in ways that are making the changes you hope to make.

BUT I HAVE NEVER SOUGHT OUT TO MAKE ANY 'CHANGES' here.

ONCE MORE, I am here, in this forum, firstly to LEARN HOW to COMMUNICATE BETTER WITH 'you', human beings.

Secondly, I am USING this forum to HELP in REACHING and ACHIEVING 'the goal', which I have SET.

WHY did 'you' PRESUME that I was HOPING to 'make changes' here, in this forum? What LED 'you' to PRESUME such a 'thing', "iwannaplato"?

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

'you' appear to be VERY FIXATED ON 'this completely MADE UP VIEW' of 'yours' here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

What can be SEEN here, BETTER 'now', is that 'those people', BACK in 'those days' when this was being written, had a propensity to WANT TO 'CHANGE' "others". And, that 'this' is WHY 'this one' was PRESUMING that 'this' was what I was WANTING TO DO ALSO.

In case ANY one is INTERESTED I am NOT here to 'CHANGE' 'you', posters, here. I am SHOWING and REVEALING the VERY REASONS WHY 'these posters' Truly STEADFASTLY WANTED TO HOLD ONTO 'their' ALREADY OBTAINED and CURRENTLY HELD BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS. JUST LIKE MANY, MANY PREVIOUS 'adult human beings' DID, AS WELL.

The PROPENSITY TO WANT TO CHANGE "others", and SHAPE or FORM 'them' INTO, and WITH, the SAME VIEWS/BELIEFS as "ones' OWN, LEFT 'them' completely BLIND to the Fact that EVERY one IS JUST CONTINUALLY CHANGING ALL OF THE 'TIME', ANYWAY.

CHANGING, either FOR 'good', and the BETTERMENT, or FOR 'bad', and the WORSE, 'these ones' had YET to RECOGNIZE, and SEE.

[LuckyR]

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct. Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

You, my friend have the patience of Job.

I admit I was a little curious if your addressing style specifically would be answered in a discussion of style or if it would be responded to in the (yawn) typical contrarian "the sky isn't blue" auto opposition technique.

Obviously, this exercise is an example of the "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" advice.

I applaud your attempt though. Kudos to you.

[Iwannaplato]

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct. Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

You, my friend have the patience of Job.

I admit I was a little curious if your addressing style specifically would be answered in a discussion of style or if it would be responded to in the (yawn) typical contrarian "the sky isn't blue" auto opposition technique.

Obviously, this exercise is an example of the "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" advice.

I applaud your attempt though. Kudos to you.

Well, thank you. I don't have the patience of Job and I have been very snarky with Age on other occasions. Very.
But I try to let my moods, and ironically my perspectives, shift when they shift. He's likely not noticed that I have approached a number of issues from different sides, and have often chided people for assuming issues are binary and that you have to pick either one or the other. And I know there are other people here who can see things from more than one persepective. But I didn't feel like taking it personally and tried something different.

And, well, it went the way it went, but I got a compliment on the side, so all in all I'm pleased.

[Atla]

Can 'you', posters, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?

'This, OBVIOUSLY, Wrong and Incorrect misbehavior' can be SEEN, VERY CLEARLY, in just about EVERY thread in this forum, but even MORE SO in talks about just one of the MANY, MANY continuing wars that 'you', adult human beings, MAKE children SUFFER IN, and ENDURE THROUGH.

What 'you', posters, are DOING here, in this forum, is SHOWING and PROVING the VERY REASON WHY there IS, and HAS BEEN, SO MUCH continuing conflicts and warring.

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct.

Are you referring to ANY one of my assessments here in particular?

Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

Are you here 'trying to' suggest that there are SOME 'things' that ALL of 'you', posters, here do NOT LOOK AT from "one-side" or the "other-side"?

If yes, then 'what', EXACTLY is 'that thing', or 'things'?

Also, I NEVER said that EVERY one only looks at one side of things. I also NEVER said that EVERY one does NOT look at things through other perspectives.

'you', posters, here REALLY DO NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE 'you' WITHOUT MAKING ANY ASSUMPTIONS AT ALL. As DOING SO can all too EASILY and all too SIMPLY lead 'you' COMPLETELY ASTRAY. As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED True here, ONCE MORE.

We accept for the moment this is the case and look at this post/thread of yours in that context.

What is this thread doing?

The thread, itself, does NOTHING. However, what 'you', human beings, DO, individually, with ANY 'thing', is SOLELY up to 'your' CHOICE, ALONE.

First, it is judging everyone here negatively.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Here we have ANOTHER COMPLETE and UTTER Wrong ASSUMPTION made, ONCE AGAIN.

Which is just FURTHER PROOF of WHY PRESUMING 'things', BEFORE OBTAIN ACTUAL and FULL CLARIFICATION IS just ANOTHER Wrong 'misbehavior' made by 'you', adult human beings.

By the way, NO 'judgment' WAS MADE, let alone ANY so-called 'negative judgment'.

For example, if I was to SAY, BACK in the days, (when ONLY one human being was SAYING and CLAIMING that 'the earth revolves around the sun), TO 'the people' who SAW or BELIEVED otherwise, 'Can 'you', people, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?' THEN, there would be, ONCE AGAIN, NO 'judgment' being made, and CERTAINLY NO so-called 'negative judgment' AT ALL.

I am just ASKING a CLARIFYING QUESTION, to OBTAIN and GAIN ACTUAL FULL CLARITY.

Also, if absolutely ANY one thinks or BELIEVES that 'that QUESTION' in those two situations somehow IMPLIES a 'negative behavior', on the part of some here, then WHY does 'that one' SEE 'that misbehavior' as being 'negative'?

Second, it implies that the author does not do this.

BUT, what I SAID, and WROTE, here did NOT 'imply' ANY such 'thing' AT ALL. If, however, 'you' 'inferred' 'that', then 'that' is a completely separate 'thing'.

So, we have a I/Them split present.

Is 'this' a REAL ISSUE here. Or, do 'you' think or BELIEVE that 'children' are somehow the CAUSE of 'human warring'. If 'I' SEPARATE, or SPLIT, 'those' who CAUSE 'wars' FROM 'those' who DO NOT and CAN NOT, then is 'this' REALLY AN ISSUE, FOR 'you'?

Then this is connect to conflicts and wars.

I do NOT KNOW what this sentence MEANS nor IS REFERRING TO, EXACTLY.

It is presented at a general level.

What is, supposedly, presented at a, so-called, 'general level'?

A general negative assessment of everyone here, who are judged to only take one perspective and one side.

WHY do 'you' USE the 'everyone' word, especially considering the ACTUAL WORD that I had CHOSEN, and USED?

And, WHY do 'you' PRESUME that I have made A 'general negative assessment' here?

If I do POINT OUT and SHOW what a 'group of people' ACTUALLY DO, then HOW and WHY does some PRESUMPTION get MADE that there is some sort of 'negativity' being IMPLIED?

So, now we have another conflict started. One person Age implies that everyone here shares certain characteristics which Age does not have.

'This PRESUMPTION of 'yours' here "iwannaplato" is Wrong, ONCE AGAIN.

It IS this CONTINUAL PRESUMING and ASSUMING which is WHY it TOOK 'these human beings', BACK in 'those days', SO LONG to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD TOWARDS WHERE 'human beings', eventually, DO 'END UP'.

And so into the mix of conflicts and perspectives, held by people here who are judged to only take one perspective on each issue, a new us/them with heavy judgments at a very abstract level is tossed.

Here we can CLEARLY SEEN HOW FROM one FIRST PRESUMPTION being Wrong LEADS to FURTHER and FURTHER Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Which HAS COMPLETELY and UTTERLY DETRACTED FROM what WAS being POINTED OUT and SHOWN, in the beginning. Which WAS, LOOKING AT and SEEING 'things' FROM "one-side" ONLY IS A Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior'. Just like ASSUMING 'things' BEFORE ACTUAL and FULLY CLARITY IS OBTAINED FIRST IS ANOTHER Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior' of the 'adult human being'.

I do recognize that you have gone into specific issues, often asking a lot of questions, at the specific issue level.

If someone is supposed to be saavy about human psychology and the root of problems and conflict, how could they at the same time think that a general abstract blaming judgment of everyone here is going to help matters?

BUT, absolutely NO 'general abstract blaming judgment of EVERY one here' has EVER been made. Well NOT by 'me' anyway.

But, PLEASE REMEMBER that 'you' are ABSOLUTELY FREE to ASSUME and BELIEVE absolutely ANY 'thing' you like and/or want to.

It seems like that is Age's goal: to help matters. To help people notice that they assume many things and don't actually try to find out what is going on. That they take sides and come at discussions with a lot of assumptions. Age would like that to be less the case.

Now WHY would 'you' ASSUME that 'i' would like 'that' to be less the case?

The Fact IS the MORE 'you' do 'that', then MORE EXAMPLES, and PROOF, of WHY doing 'that' IS A Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior'.

That seems like a good goal to me.

Okay.

But can this thread, given Age's own assessment of the situation, really improv the situation, given that it aims a general, negative assessment at everyone here?

1. But it has NEVER been 'I' who USED the 'everyone' word here. ONLY 'you', "iwannaplato", introduced 'that word', here.

2. 'Trying to' RALLY 'a group' of "others" to BANDY WITH 'you', AGAINST "another" is REALLY NOT the BEST WAY to PRODUCE a CONDUCIVE WAY of living in Peace AND Harmony WITH and FOR "others". BUT, if 'you' NEED people ON "your-side" here "iwannaplato", then 'I', for One, will NEVER STOP NOR PREVENT 'you' from GARNISHING SUPPORT here. But, if 'you' would like to 'now' SAY that 'this' is NOT what 'you' are 'trying to' DO here, then are 'you' ABSOLUTELY SURE?

3. Also, 'this thread' is NOT 'aiming' to give a 'general, negative assessment at ANY one here, let alone EVERY one'. So, 'your' ASSUMPTION, and/or BELIEF, here is False, Wrong, AND Incorrect ONCE AGAIN. I WAS and AM just PRESENTING 'assessment/s' FROM 'my perspective'.

4. ONLY through SEEKING OUT and GAINING CLARIFICATION could ANY one of 'you' WORK OUT and FIND OUT, EXACTLY, 'the aim' of 'this thread'.

And then a more general question....

Any approach to making things better or helping people includes implicit assumptions about what process will do this. One chooses this approach and not others. One presumably chooses an approach that one thinks will be effective and perhaps most moral or kindest. Whatever the criteria one has ideas about what will work and these ideas are based on knowledge or at least ideas about the people addressed. Given that they are like X, I choose to approach them like this.....

AGAIN, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is just HOW LOOKING AT 'things' FROM PREEXISTING ASSUMPTIONS or PRESUMPTIONS can CLOUD or FOG what can BE FURTHER LEARNED and/or SEEN AHEAD.

Now the general question: How is it going with your approach, Age?

DIFFERENT, and BETTER, than 'i' FIRST 'thought'.

Does it seem like it is helping?

VERY MUCH SO.

Is it possible that your approach in general, here, and the assumptions it is grounded on, is not the best approach?

What 'assumption' are 'you' talking ABOUT and REFERRING TO here "iwannaplato"?

There may well be BETTER 'approaches', but 'this one' is SUFFICE, for 'now' anyway.

How might your approach be improved?

By LEARNING MORE, in QUICKER 'time', about HOW to COMMUNICATE BETTER WITH 'you', human beings.

BUT, there is ABSOLUTELY RUSH here needed, NOR even wanted. So, 'things' are proceeding along JUST Right, NOW.

What are the assumptions you have or beliefs or guidelines or ideas that have led you to post here in the way you do and ask the questions you ask and communicate in the ways you do?

There are/were NO 'assumptions' NOR 'beliefs' that I have/had that led 'me' to post here. An 'idea' though is about living in Peace and Harmony, as One.

In case 'you' are STILL NOT YET AWARE I am here, in this forum, to LEARN HOW to BETTER 'communicate' WITH 'you', human beings. Well 'that' and to ACHIEVE what I have SET OUT TO ACHIEVE.

Do you do assessments of this, from time to time?

NO, in regards to ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, BECAUSE there are/were NO ASSUMPTIONS NOR BELIEFS.

BUT YES, in regards to OTHER 'things'.

What have you learned about yourself, not us, during these assessments?

I LEARNED, and thus HAD ALREADY GAINED and OBTAINED, the ANSWER to the QUESTION, 'Who am 'I'?' BEFORE I came into this forum.

I had ALSO LEARNED, and UNDERSTOOD, how the term and phrase "yourself" is an OXYMORON and SELF-CONTRADICTORY term/phrase.

Could there be any merit in the reactions people tend to have in relation to your approach here?

The 'reactions' 'you', people, have provided here have, and are, WORKING, PERFECTLY, FROM 'my perspective', and FOR 'the goal' I have SET here.

And given that it seems like, in any case, you want to communicate with us, how could you possibly adjust your approach, if it doesn't seem to be having the effects you might want or think would be good?

WHERE, and WHY, would 'you' have even BEGUN TO OBTAIN the PRESUMPTION and ASSUMPTION that 'the effects' that I would want or that would be 'good' IS NOT OCCURRING and HAPPENING here?

The 'effects' that 'you', responders here, have been PROVIDING, for ALL of 'us' to LOOK AT and SEE has been BETTER than i wanted. In fact ALL of 'your' Honest responses here have been, literally, PERFECT.

I ask because after all this time, it seems you have a negative judgment here of everyone....everyone.

Although 'you' CONTINUE TO SAY 'this', and so appear to BELIEVE 'this' to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE, 'you' could NOT BE MORE Wrong, NOR Incorrect, even if 'you' WANTED TO BE.

And, to PROVE just HOW Wrong 'your' VIEW or BELIEF IS here, one just has to LOOK THROUGH MY WORDS here for 'this' to be VERIFIED and CONFIRMED.

So, perhaps your approach hasn't worked so well.

BUT, from my perspective it is working PERFECTLY WELL. And, it could be SAID or ARGUED working even BETTER than EXPECTED.

Of course, you are not responsible for how people respond. On the other hand it seems implicit that you have or think you have a great deal of knowledge about things you consider very important. And yet, it seems to me, you are not communicating in ways that are making the changes you hope to make.

BUT I HAVE NEVER SOUGHT OUT TO MAKE ANY 'CHANGES' here.

ONCE MORE, I am here, in this forum, firstly to LEARN HOW to COMMUNICATE BETTER WITH 'you', human beings.

Secondly, I am USING this forum to HELP in REACHING and ACHIEVING 'the goal', which I have SET.

WHY did 'you' PRESUME that I was HOPING to 'make changes' here, in this forum? What LED 'you' to PRESUME such a 'thing', "iwannaplato"?

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

'you' appear to be VERY FIXATED ON 'this completely MADE UP VIEW' of 'yours' here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

What can be SEEN here, BETTER 'now', is that 'those people', BACK in 'those days' when this was being written, had a propensity to WANT TO 'CHANGE' "others". And, that 'this' is WHY 'this one' was PRESUMING that 'this' was what I was WANTING TO DO ALSO.

In case ANY one is INTERESTED I am NOT here to 'CHANGE' 'you', posters, here. I am SHOWING and REVEALING the VERY REASONS WHY 'these posters' Truly STEADFASTLY WANTED TO HOLD ONTO 'their' ALREADY OBTAINED and CURRENTLY HELD BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS. JUST LIKE MANY, MANY PREVIOUS 'adult human beings' DID, AS WELL.

The PROPENSITY TO WANT TO CHANGE "others", and SHAPE or FORM 'them' INTO, and WITH, the SAME VIEWS/BELIEFS as "ones' OWN, LEFT 'them' completely BLIND to the Fact that EVERY one IS JUST CONTINUALLY CHANGING ALL OF THE 'TIME', ANYWAY.

CHANGING, either FOR 'good', and the BETTERMENT, or FOR 'bad', and the WORSE, 'these ones' had YET to RECOGNIZE, and SEE.

Or you could choose to be open and look at the "ACTUAL TRUTH": there is no big 'I', humans have their own minds, and perfect communication would only get us a little closer to living in harmony. But you are closed.

[Iwannaplato]

Or you could choose to be open and look at the "ACTUAL TRUTH": there is no big 'I', humans have their own minds, and perfect communication would only get us a little closer to living in harmony. But you are closed.

You're not suggesting that he can only see the problem from one perspective?!?!

[Atla]

Or you could choose to be open and look at the "ACTUAL TRUTH": there is no big 'I', humans have their own minds, and perfect communication would only get us a little closer to living in harmony. But you are closed.

You're not suggesting that he can only see the problem from one perspective?!?!

And that one is completely nuts. So it's more like zero perspective.

[Age]

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct.

Are you referring to ANY one of my assessments here in particular?

Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

Are you here 'trying to' suggest that there are SOME 'things' that ALL of 'you', posters, here do NOT LOOK AT from "one-side" or the "other-side"?

If yes, then 'what', EXACTLY is 'that thing', or 'things'?

Also, I NEVER said that EVERY one only looks at one side of things. I also NEVER said that EVERY one does NOT look at things through other perspectives.

'you', posters, here REALLY DO NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ ACTUAL WORDS BEFORE 'you' WITHOUT MAKING ANY ASSUMPTIONS AT ALL. As DOING SO can all too EASILY and all too SIMPLY lead 'you' COMPLETELY ASTRAY. As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED True here, ONCE MORE.

We accept for the moment this is the case and look at this post/thread of yours in that context.

What is this thread doing?

The thread, itself, does NOTHING. However, what 'you', human beings, DO, individually, with ANY 'thing', is SOLELY up to 'your' CHOICE, ALONE.

First, it is judging everyone here negatively.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Here we have ANOTHER COMPLETE and UTTER Wrong ASSUMPTION made, ONCE AGAIN.

Which is just FURTHER PROOF of WHY PRESUMING 'things', BEFORE OBTAIN ACTUAL and FULL CLARIFICATION IS just ANOTHER Wrong 'misbehavior' made by 'you', adult human beings.

By the way, NO 'judgment' WAS MADE, let alone ANY so-called 'negative judgment'.

For example, if I was to SAY, BACK in the days, (when ONLY one human being was SAYING and CLAIMING that 'the earth revolves around the sun), TO 'the people' who SAW or BELIEVED otherwise, 'Can 'you', people, here REALLY STILL NOT YET SEE that 'you' have ALL CHOSEN TO ONLY LOOK AT "one-side" of 'things' and thus are ONLY 'seeing' "one-side" or one perspective of 'things' here?' THEN, there would be, ONCE AGAIN, NO 'judgment' being made, and CERTAINLY NO so-called 'negative judgment' AT ALL.

I am just ASKING a CLARIFYING QUESTION, to OBTAIN and GAIN ACTUAL FULL CLARITY.

Also, if absolutely ANY one thinks or BELIEVES that 'that QUESTION' in those two situations somehow IMPLIES a 'negative behavior', on the part of some here, then WHY does 'that one' SEE 'that misbehavior' as being 'negative'?

Second, it implies that the author does not do this.

BUT, what I SAID, and WROTE, here did NOT 'imply' ANY such 'thing' AT ALL. If, however, 'you' 'inferred' 'that', then 'that' is a completely separate 'thing'.

So, we have a I/Them split present.

Is 'this' a REAL ISSUE here. Or, do 'you' think or BELIEVE that 'children' are somehow the CAUSE of 'human warring'. If 'I' SEPARATE, or SPLIT, 'those' who CAUSE 'wars' FROM 'those' who DO NOT and CAN NOT, then is 'this' REALLY AN ISSUE, FOR 'you'?

Then this is connect to conflicts and wars.

I do NOT KNOW what this sentence MEANS nor IS REFERRING TO, EXACTLY.

It is presented at a general level.

What is, supposedly, presented at a, so-called, 'general level'?

A general negative assessment of everyone here, who are judged to only take one perspective and one side.

WHY do 'you' USE the 'everyone' word, especially considering the ACTUAL WORD that I had CHOSEN, and USED?

And, WHY do 'you' PRESUME that I have made A 'general negative assessment' here?

If I do POINT OUT and SHOW what a 'group of people' ACTUALLY DO, then HOW and WHY does some PRESUMPTION get MADE that there is some sort of 'negativity' being IMPLIED?

So, now we have another conflict started. One person Age implies that everyone here shares certain characteristics which Age does not have.

'This PRESUMPTION of 'yours' here "iwannaplato" is Wrong, ONCE AGAIN.

It IS this CONTINUAL PRESUMING and ASSUMING which is WHY it TOOK 'these human beings', BACK in 'those days', SO LONG to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD TOWARDS WHERE 'human beings', eventually, DO 'END UP'.

And so into the mix of conflicts and perspectives, held by people here who are judged to only take one perspective on each issue, a new us/them with heavy judgments at a very abstract level is tossed.

Here we can CLEARLY SEEN HOW FROM one FIRST PRESUMPTION being Wrong LEADS to FURTHER and FURTHER Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Which HAS COMPLETELY and UTTERLY DETRACTED FROM what WAS being POINTED OUT and SHOWN, in the beginning. Which WAS, LOOKING AT and SEEING 'things' FROM "one-side" ONLY IS A Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior'. Just like ASSUMING 'things' BEFORE ACTUAL and FULLY CLARITY IS OBTAINED FIRST IS ANOTHER Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior' of the 'adult human being'.

I do recognize that you have gone into specific issues, often asking a lot of questions, at the specific issue level.

If someone is supposed to be saavy about human psychology and the root of problems and conflict, how could they at the same time think that a general abstract blaming judgment of everyone here is going to help matters?

BUT, absolutely NO 'general abstract blaming judgment of EVERY one here' has EVER been made. Well NOT by 'me' anyway.

But, PLEASE REMEMBER that 'you' are ABSOLUTELY FREE to ASSUME and BELIEVE absolutely ANY 'thing' you like and/or want to.

It seems like that is Age's goal: to help matters. To help people notice that they assume many things and don't actually try to find out what is going on. That they take sides and come at discussions with a lot of assumptions. Age would like that to be less the case.

Now WHY would 'you' ASSUME that 'i' would like 'that' to be less the case?

The Fact IS the MORE 'you' do 'that', then MORE EXAMPLES, and PROOF, of WHY doing 'that' IS A Wrong AND Incorrect 'misbehavior'.

That seems like a good goal to me.

Okay.

But can this thread, given Age's own assessment of the situation, really improv the situation, given that it aims a general, negative assessment at everyone here?

1. But it has NEVER been 'I' who USED the 'everyone' word here. ONLY 'you', "iwannaplato", introduced 'that word', here.

2. 'Trying to' RALLY 'a group' of "others" to BANDY WITH 'you', AGAINST "another" is REALLY NOT the BEST WAY to PRODUCE a CONDUCIVE WAY of living in Peace AND Harmony WITH and FOR "others". BUT, if 'you' NEED people ON "your-side" here "iwannaplato", then 'I', for One, will NEVER STOP NOR PREVENT 'you' from GARNISHING SUPPORT here. But, if 'you' would like to 'now' SAY that 'this' is NOT what 'you' are 'trying to' DO here, then are 'you' ABSOLUTELY SURE?

3. Also, 'this thread' is NOT 'aiming' to give a 'general, negative assessment at ANY one here, let alone EVERY one'. So, 'your' ASSUMPTION, and/or BELIEF, here is False, Wrong, AND Incorrect ONCE AGAIN. I WAS and AM just PRESENTING 'assessment/s' FROM 'my perspective'.

4. ONLY through SEEKING OUT and GAINING CLARIFICATION could ANY one of 'you' WORK OUT and FIND OUT, EXACTLY, 'the aim' of 'this thread'.

And then a more general question....

Any approach to making things better or helping people includes implicit assumptions about what process will do this. One chooses this approach and not others. One presumably chooses an approach that one thinks will be effective and perhaps most moral or kindest. Whatever the criteria one has ideas about what will work and these ideas are based on knowledge or at least ideas about the people addressed. Given that they are like X, I choose to approach them like this.....

AGAIN, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is just HOW LOOKING AT 'things' FROM PREEXISTING ASSUMPTIONS or PRESUMPTIONS can CLOUD or FOG what can BE FURTHER LEARNED and/or SEEN AHEAD.

Now the general question: How is it going with your approach, Age?

DIFFERENT, and BETTER, than 'i' FIRST 'thought'.

Does it seem like it is helping?

VERY MUCH SO.

Is it possible that your approach in general, here, and the assumptions it is grounded on, is not the best approach?

What 'assumption' are 'you' talking ABOUT and REFERRING TO here "iwannaplato"?

There may well be BETTER 'approaches', but 'this one' is SUFFICE, for 'now' anyway.

How might your approach be improved?

By LEARNING MORE, in QUICKER 'time', about HOW to COMMUNICATE BETTER WITH 'you', human beings.

BUT, there is ABSOLUTELY RUSH here needed, NOR even wanted. So, 'things' are proceeding along JUST Right, NOW.

What are the assumptions you have or beliefs or guidelines or ideas that have led you to post here in the way you do and ask the questions you ask and communicate in the ways you do?

There are/were NO 'assumptions' NOR 'beliefs' that I have/had that led 'me' to post here. An 'idea' though is about living in Peace and Harmony, as One.

In case 'you' are STILL NOT YET AWARE I am here, in this forum, to LEARN HOW to BETTER 'communicate' WITH 'you', human beings. Well 'that' and to ACHIEVE what I have SET OUT TO ACHIEVE.

Do you do assessments of this, from time to time?

NO, in regards to ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, BECAUSE there are/were NO ASSUMPTIONS NOR BELIEFS.

BUT YES, in regards to OTHER 'things'.

What have you learned about yourself, not us, during these assessments?

I LEARNED, and thus HAD ALREADY GAINED and OBTAINED, the ANSWER to the QUESTION, 'Who am 'I'?' BEFORE I came into this forum.

I had ALSO LEARNED, and UNDERSTOOD, how the term and phrase "yourself" is an OXYMORON and SELF-CONTRADICTORY term/phrase.

Could there be any merit in the reactions people tend to have in relation to your approach here?

The 'reactions' 'you', people, have provided here have, and are, WORKING, PERFECTLY, FROM 'my perspective', and FOR 'the goal' I have SET here.

And given that it seems like, in any case, you want to communicate with us, how could you possibly adjust your approach, if it doesn't seem to be having the effects you might want or think would be good?

WHERE, and WHY, would 'you' have even BEGUN TO OBTAIN the PRESUMPTION and ASSUMPTION that 'the effects' that I would want or that would be 'good' IS NOT OCCURRING and HAPPENING here?

The 'effects' that 'you', responders here, have been PROVIDING, for ALL of 'us' to LOOK AT and SEE has been BETTER than i wanted. In fact ALL of 'your' Honest responses here have been, literally, PERFECT.

I ask because after all this time, it seems you have a negative judgment here of everyone....everyone.

Although 'you' CONTINUE TO SAY 'this', and so appear to BELIEVE 'this' to be ABSOLUTELY TRUE, 'you' could NOT BE MORE Wrong, NOR Incorrect, even if 'you' WANTED TO BE.

And, to PROVE just HOW Wrong 'your' VIEW or BELIEF IS here, one just has to LOOK THROUGH MY WORDS here for 'this' to be VERIFIED and CONFIRMED.

So, perhaps your approach hasn't worked so well.

BUT, from my perspective it is working PERFECTLY WELL. And, it could be SAID or ARGUED working even BETTER than EXPECTED.

Of course, you are not responsible for how people respond. On the other hand it seems implicit that you have or think you have a great deal of knowledge about things you consider very important. And yet, it seems to me, you are not communicating in ways that are making the changes you hope to make.

BUT I HAVE NEVER SOUGHT OUT TO MAKE ANY 'CHANGES' here.

ONCE MORE, I am here, in this forum, firstly to LEARN HOW to COMMUNICATE BETTER WITH 'you', human beings.

Secondly, I am USING this forum to HELP in REACHING and ACHIEVING 'the goal', which I have SET.

WHY did 'you' PRESUME that I was HOPING to 'make changes' here, in this forum? What LED 'you' to PRESUME such a 'thing', "iwannaplato"?

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

'you' appear to be VERY FIXATED ON 'this completely MADE UP VIEW' of 'yours' here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

What can be SEEN here, BETTER 'now', is that 'those people', BACK in 'those days' when this was being written, had a propensity to WANT TO 'CHANGE' "others". And, that 'this' is WHY 'this one' was PRESUMING that 'this' was what I was WANTING TO DO ALSO.

In case ANY one is INTERESTED I am NOT here to 'CHANGE' 'you', posters, here. I am SHOWING and REVEALING the VERY REASONS WHY 'these posters' Truly STEADFASTLY WANTED TO HOLD ONTO 'their' ALREADY OBTAINED and CURRENTLY HELD BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS. JUST LIKE MANY, MANY PREVIOUS 'adult human beings' DID, AS WELL.

The PROPENSITY TO WANT TO CHANGE "others", and SHAPE or FORM 'them' INTO, and WITH, the SAME VIEWS/BELIEFS as "ones' OWN, LEFT 'them' completely BLIND to the Fact that EVERY one IS JUST CONTINUALLY CHANGING ALL OF THE 'TIME', ANYWAY.

CHANGING, either FOR 'good', and the BETTERMENT, or FOR 'bad', and the WORSE, 'these ones' had YET to RECOGNIZE, and SEE.

Or you could choose to be open and look at the "ACTUAL TRUTH": there is no big 'I', humans have their own minds, and perfect communication would only get us a little closer to living in harmony. But you are closed.

BEFORE ANY Truly OPEN person would JUST ACCEPT what 'you' are SAYING and CLAIMING here "atla", I would suggest that 'they' WOULD FIRST SEEK OUT, and ASK 'you' to PROVIDE, what ACTUAL PROOF that 'you' HAVE for;

1. There being NO 'big' NOR One 'I'?

2. That humans have their OWN minds. AND,

3. That PERFECT communication would only get 'us' a LITTLE closer to living in harmony.

But, if ANY one did, then, as 'you' WILL PROVE me ABSOLUTELY True here ONCE AGAIN, 'you' WILL NOT PROVIDE ABSOLUTELY ANY even 'evidence', let alone ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE PROOF AT ALL.

Oh, and by the way, what ACTUAL PROOF have 'you' GOT that 'I' AM CLOSED?

Or, is 'this' ASSUMPTION and/or BELIEF of 'yours' here just ANOTHER ONE based on absolutely NOTHING MORE then 'your' OWN ALREADY PREEXISTING BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS?

[Age]

Let assume for a moment your assessment of everyone here is correct. Everyone here only looks at one side of things and does not look at things through other perspectives.

Yes, one reaction you could have to all this is to post a general, judgmental, negative assessment of everyone - which is what you did here.

My guess is this will not change anything and will actually just go into the mix of conflicts and add a little more irritation, defensiveness, etc.
I could be wrong about that.

You, my friend have the patience of Job.

I admit I was a little curious if your addressing style specifically would be answered in a discussion of style or if it would be responded to in the (yawn) typical contrarian "the sky isn't blue" auto opposition technique.

Obviously, this exercise is an example of the "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" advice.

I applaud your attempt though. Kudos to you.

LOL

"iwannaplato" MADE THE CLAIM that I was REFERRING TO ABSOLUTELY EVERY one, which was ONE out of MANY CLAIMS. I SAY and WRITE, while DISCUSSING, that this is OBVIOUSLY False, Wrong, AND Incorrect, and which can be PROVED ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLE True by my PAST WRITINGS/BEHAVIOR here.

YET, 'this STYLE' or responding is SEEN here by "lucky", AGAIN FROM "one-side" ONLY, as being a so-called '(yawn) typical contrarian) and 'auto opposition technique', and with the MOST ABSURD and False CLAIM that it is like 'the sky isn't blue' response.

What we HAVE here is A PERFECT EXAMPLE and the VERY 'thing' the title of this thread IS REFERRING TO, EXACTLY. This 'poster' here is SO "one-sided" 'it' has made up a Truly, and OBVIOUS, False CLAIM, and what makes 'this' WORSE is that 'it' ACTUALLY BELIEVES that 'its' CLAIM IS TRUE.

What 'this one' IS DOING, and SHOWING, here is the VERY 'thing' being "one-side" CAUSES and CREATES.

But, then again, I have TENDED to SPEAK and WRITE in A WAY to these 'posters' here, previously, so that 'they' WOULD END UP CHOOSING to LOOKING AT and SEEING MY WORDS from a Truly "one-sided" perspective ONLY. So, that 'they' WOULD END UP, eventually, PROVIDING the ACTUAL examples of what I am, and have been, talking ABOUT and REFERRING TO, EXACTLY.

What IS ALSO CLEARLY VISIBLE here is 'these posters' PREFER TO talk ABOUT 'me' INSTEAD OF having discussions WITH 'me'.

That is; 'they' like to MAKE CLAIMS ABOUT 'me' but WHEN I SHOW and PROVE the CLAIM False, Wrong, or Incorrect, then it IS 'me' who SPEAKS WRONGLY or that HAS a STYLE that is NOT good, right, NOR 'conducive' to 'productive discussions'. 'These people' are, literally, BLINDED BY "their" OWN "one-sided" views and perspectives of 'things' here.