Who are the real wild animals?

[Arising_uk]

.You must be hurt deeply.

I must have somehow hurt you deeply.

If that is the reaction you have to the image and question I submitted I feel sorry for you...

Words fail me..

Save your psychobabble for yourself as you clearly need it.

If its anything its fatigue at those who post emotive images, with no solutions, in the impression that they are doing anything else than salving their own hypocritical western conscience.

So I assume you own leather items, I assume you use medicine, I assume you drink alcoholic drinks, I assume you eat meat, etc, etc. All involve or have involved the suffering of animals. As such I find you up your arse criticizing the African poacher who probably is trying to feed his family in very difficult circumstances, not least because he can get shot getting the rhino horn.

[Arising_uk]

I can't believe that you said all that and still said nothing. Or I should say you missed the actual culprit, while you stated the actual culprit.

Then I didn't miss them did I!?

Selfish Humans! that are so blinded by immediate self satisfaction that they can't see that the end game of it all, shall be because of it all, thus ultimately unselfishly negating their immediate selfishness. The Human animal is a fool and is not the master of his/her domain. Their psychological pathology is, and it shall be their undoing! Unless of course they get a clue.

Psychological twaddle! You want to stop such actions? Try behaving well towards ones fellows such that they don't need to do such wasteful actions. Worry less about the other species who if they were self-conscious would be treating us much the same. Dolphins rape, chimps murder, cats play with their prey.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Wait a minute...you are kind-of blowing my mind.


You look at this picture and THAT is your thought process?







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I accept that but words fail me.





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[Bill Wiltrack]

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This article is from the AFP blog featured on the Yahoo home page of Nov. 9, 2011:




Two rhino species bite the dust: Red List


Several species of rhino have been poached into extinction or to the point of no return, according to an update of the Red List of Threatened Species, the gold standard for animal and plant conservation.

All told, a quarter of all mammal species assessed are at risk of extinction, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN), which compiles the list, said on Thursday.

About a third of the 61,900 species now catalogued by the IUCN are classified as "vulnerable," "endangered," "critically endangered," or extinct, with some groups, such as amphibians and reptiles, in particularly rapid decline.

Rhinoceros have been hit especially hard in recent years. Their fearsome horns -- prized for dagger handles in the Middle East and traditional medicine in east Asia -- can fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars on the black market.

The new assessment shows that a subspecies of the western black rhino (Diceros bicornis longipes) native to western Africa is now extinct, joining a long list of creatures -- from the Tasmanian tiger to the Arabian gazelle -- that no longer stride the planet.

Central Africa's northern white rhino (Ceratotherium simum cottoni) is listed as "possibly extinct in the wild", while the Javan rhino (Rhinoceros sondaicus) is making a last stand after the remaining specimen of its Vietnamese counterpart was killed by poachers last year.

"Human beings are stewards of the earth and we are responsible for protecting the species that share our environment," Simon Stuart, head of the IUCN Species Survival Commission, said in a statement.

"In the case of both the western black and the northern white rhinos the situation could have had very different results if suggested conservation measures had been implemented."

There were a few slivers of good news showing that species can be prevented from slipping into oblivion.

The southern white rhino subspecies (Ceratotherium simum simum) is back from the brink, its numbers up from 100 at the end of the 19th century to some 20,000 today.

Central Asia's Przewalski's horse (Equus ferus), meanwhile, has moved from a status of critically endangered to endangered.

"We have the knowledge that conservation works if executed in a timely manner," said Jane Smart, the Global Species Programme director.

The general trend, however, is an acceleration in extinction across a wide spectrum of fauna and flora. Indeed, many scientists say Earth is on the edge of a so-called great extinction event, only the sixth in half-a-billion years.

Some groups are especially vulnerable. In Madagascar, home to a dazzlingly rich diversity of life, an alarming 40 percent of reptiles are threatened.

Plant species are disappearing too. Such was the fate of the Chinese water fir (Glyptostrobus pensilis), once common in China but now apparently extinct in the wild due to habitat loss.

The new classification also recognises new species, including 26 recently discovered amphibians such as the blessed poison frog (Ranitomeya benedicta) and the summers' poison frog (Ranitomeya summersi).

Both are threatened by habitat loss and harvesting for the international pet trade.

"The world is full of marvelous species that are rapidly moving towards becoming things of myth and legend," said the IUCN's Jean-Christophe Vie.





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[Bill Wiltrack]

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I think the long and short of it all is that, Whenever ANY animal is unlucky enough to cross the path of a human, it's fucked!







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[SpheresOfBalance]

I can't believe that you said all that and still said nothing. Or I should say you missed the actual culprit, while you stated the actual culprit.

Then I didn't miss them did I!?
Your point seemed to indicate as much, now your attitude verifies as much.

Selfish Humans! that are so blinded by immediate self satisfaction that they can't see that the end game of it all, shall be because of it all, thus ultimately unselfishly negating their immediate selfishness. The Human animal is a fool and is not the master of his/her domain. Their psychological pathology is, and it shall be their undoing! Unless of course they get a clue.

Psychological twaddle! You want to stop such actions? Try behaving well towards ones fellows such that they don't need to do such wasteful actions. Worry less about the other species who if they were self-conscious would be treating us much the same. Dolphins rape, chimps murder, cats play with their prey.
You assume you know me, and I assure you we've never met. I assert that you've made my point, as your allusion is an illusion and that as such is merely self projection. It would seem that you're incapable of understanding my point and the significance of this life. If you have a problem I can provide the answer. It's in the following riddle:

Stick a loaded 45 caliber hand gun in your mouth with the safety off and pull the trigger. Life is cheap when it's that of another; the epitome of cowardice. Keep in mind that to another, you are another.

Also, I'm a bit confused, are you trying to elevate non-human animals to that of humans, or trying to reduce humans to that of non-human animals?

Disclaimer: I do not advocate suicide, the above is only for dramatic effect so as to prove a point.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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9 November 2011 Last updated at 21:17 ET


Western black rhino declared extinct
By Daniel Boettcher Environment Correspondent



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Black rhino: For some species on the edge, captivity is the only hope



No wild black rhinos remain in West Africa, according to the latest global assessment of threatened species.

The Red List, drawn up by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), has declared the subspecies extinct.

A subspecies of white rhino in central Africa is also listed as possibly extinct, the organisation says.

The annual update of the Red List now records more threatened species than ever before.

The IUCN reports that despite conservation efforts, 25% of the world's mammals are at risk of extinction. As part of its latest work it has reassessed several rhinoceros groups.



Poaching vulnerability

As well as declaring the western black rhino (Diceros bicornis longipes) extinct, it records the northern white rhino (Ceratotherium simum cottoni), a subspecies in central Africa, as being on the brink of extinction.

The last Javan rhino (Rhinoceros sondaicus) outside Java is also believed to have disappeared.

Overall numbers of black and white rhinos have been rising, but some subspecies have been particularly vulnerable to poaching by criminal gangs who want to trade the animals' valuable horns.

Simon Stuart, chair of the IUCN Species Survival Commission, told BBC News: "They had the misfortune of occurring in places where we simply weren't able to get the necessary security in place.

"You've got to imagine an animal walking around with a gold horn; that's what you're looking at, that's the value and that's why you need incredibly high security."

Another focus for this year's list is Madagascar and its reptiles. The report found that 40% of terrestrial reptiles are threatened. But it also says that new areas have been designated for conservation.
przewalski's horse Przewalski's horse has benefited from a breeding programme

That will help protect endangered species including Tarzan's chameleon (Calumma tarzan) and the limbless skink (Paracontias fasika).

Among the success stories identified in the latest annual update is the reintroduction of the Przewalski's horse (Equus ferus). Listed extinct in the wild in 1996, it was brought back after a captive breeding programme and the wild population is now thought to exceed 300.

Among the partner organisations involved in compiling the research for the list is the Zoological Society of London (ZSL).

ZSL's Dr Monika Boehm said: "This Red List update very much shows us a mixed picture of what's happening to the world's species. There's some good news and some bad news.

"Unfortunately, the overall trend is still a decline in biodiversity. We still haven't achieved our conservation potential."





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[SpheresOfBalance]

You know it's funny bill, some people just don't understand the implications of my analogy of the zen story, I'll call it 'cup of knowledge,' (On the net I've seen it referenced as "A cup of tea"), as I've applied it to our planet. It was kind of funny hearing (actually seeing; subtitles) it in the movie 2112. In case you've seen it, it's the scene when the old Buddhist monk is talking to his young apprentice. I actually heard it back in the 60's from my Chito Ryu Karate sensei which used to hold zen 'services,' if you will, on Sundays.

The iteration below is not how my sensei told it, he was more dramatic, but is the version I found on the net.
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Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
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Anyway, I always liked that story and one day it came to me that in our current state of affairs it applies in both it's original meaning and at the same time it applies to my new analogy.

In my usage the cup symbolizes our planet and the tea symbolizes 'us' along with all our supposed knowledge (as in the original story), technology, waste, selfishness, population, etc., (our impact in it's totality). As I see it, it's not a question of if our cup shall overflow, but when it shall overflow. Unfortunately, I believe that it has already begun. The reason it's pertinent to this topic is that our topic is part of the overflowing, as is global warming, etc., and the tea keeps coming. I believe we need to stop pouring the tea, sit back and reevaluate, allowing some of the hot tea to evaporate. Then after a while we can again pour every so slowly, just enough to maintain balance.

We need to balance our hemispheres!

[Arising_uk]

Wait a minute...you are kind-of blowing my mind.

You look at this picture and THAT is your thought process?

Where do you think you are Bill? You think those who visit philosophy forums are unaware of what Man does? What would be the effect if you imagined the horns on or skinned and boned or just a headless carcass as the old-timers used to leave, although I guess then they divvied the meat, time the modern day poacher has not. What solutions do you offer?

Go read Schopenhauer and Nietzsche then come back with a rail about Mans 'inhumanity'.

I accept that but words fail me.

Do they?

[SpheresOfBalance]

Wait a minute...you are kind-of blowing my mind.

You look at this picture and THAT is your thought process?

Where do you think you are Bill?
It doesn't matter where he is a point's a point!

You think those who visit philosophy forums are unaware of what Man does?
"Those who visit philosophy forums," are aware of some things and are unaware of somethings, but that's got nothing to do with one speaking his/her mind on a subject they care about.

What would be the effect if you imagined the horns on or skinned and boned or just a headless carcass as the old-timers used to leave, although I guess then they divvied the meat, time the modern day poacher has not.
You fail to consider time.

What solutions do you offer?
Birth Control!

Go read Schopenhauer and Nietzsche
You think those who visit philosophy forums are unaware of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche?
Nietzsche had his head where the sun doesn't shine!


then come back with a rail about Mans 'inhumanity'.
So I take it as long as someone somehow justifies your crime it's OK, huh?

I accept that but words fail me.

Do they?
What a cop out!

[Arising_uk]

It doesn't matter where he is a point's a point!

And the point is what? That Mans an animal and kills other animals, pretty much like all of nature?

"Those who visit philosophy forums," are aware of some things and are unaware of somethings, but that's got nothing to do with one speaking his/her mind on a subject they care about.

Fair enough, I take the same liberty.

You fail to consider time.

Do I? What do you mean by this? I thought I mentioned they don't have the time because they are in a game-reserve I presume.

Birth Control!

Try education for women. Without doubt the best proven birth control in history.

You think those who visit philosophy forums are unaware of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche?
Nietzsche had his head where the sun doesn't shine!

I know that Bill is as he's said as much. Nietzsche well might but he was fairly spot-on in his analysis of mans 'inhumanity' and where it would lead.

So I take it as long as someone somehow justifies your crime it's OK, huh?

No, but some analysis of the reasons may be more useful than a cassandra wail. "Oh! The inhumanity!".

What a cop out!

From what? Words fail Bill regularly.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Wait a minute...you are kind-of blowing my mind. You look at this picture and THAT is your thought process?

Where do you think you are Bill?

It doesn't matter where he is, a point's a point!

And the point is what? That Mans an animal and kills other animals, pretty much like all of nature?

The point is: Apathy you exude, only while your life’s not threatened, and as such ensures that it shall be, if not, then your progeny. Your argument, as to what men have been/are, obliterates reason as well as earths finite life. Our argument of reason insists on the growth of man and ensures finite life, and ultimately, our own best interests. Change starts with wide spread commonality in thinking.

You think those who visit philosophy forums are unaware of what Man does?

"Those who visit philosophy forums," are aware of some things and are unaware of some things, but that's got nothing to do with one speaking his/her mind on a subject they care about.

Fair enough, I take the same liberty.

And I would be the last to attempt to deny you that right, but your point seemed to indicate he was out of line for doing so, if so, make up your mind.

What would be the effect if you imagined the horns on or skinned and boned or just a headless carcass as the old-timers used to leave, although I guess then they divvied the meat, time the modern day poacher has not.

You fail to consider time.

Do I? What do you mean by this? I thought I mentioned they don't have the time because they are in a game-reserve I presume.

Time has changed the game. The old timers lived in old times, relatively, animals were plenty and humans were few. Relatively, modern day man is overwhelming and animals are few. Today demands, we finally get off our asses, the times of taking life for granted are over, or else we’re over! For your sake, I hope you’re not an obese meat eater.

What solutions do you offer?

Birth Control!

Try education for women. Without doubt the best proven birth control in history.

Agreed, you’ll never get me to argue against education.

Go read Schopenhauer and Nietzsche

You think those who visit philosophy forums are unaware of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche?
Nietzsche had his head where the sun doesn't shine!

I know that Bill is as he's said as much. Nietzsche well might but he was fairly spot-on in his analysis of mans 'inhumanity' and where it would lead.

You can read Nietzsche, sympathizing with his points or you can reel at the implications and seek change. So it’s not enough to merely say, read it. It would seem you sympathize with it, or at least show indifference.

then come back with a rail about Mans 'inhumanity'.

So I take it as long as someone somehow justifies your crime it's OK, huh?

No, but some analysis of the reasons may be more useful than a cassandra wail. "Oh! The inhumanity!".

Haven’t you noticed that Bill seems to prefer inciting the riots and rarely participates in them? He says what he says so we’ll fill in the blanks. He tends to be a topic starter, not that he fails to make his point, which can often be seen in the topics themselves. In this particular thread he’s so much as said that he believed that his reasons are self evident. Seriously, what points does the word ‘extinction’ bring to your mind anyway?

I accept that but words fail me.

Do they?

What a cop out!

From what? Words fail Bill regularly.

Your point would seem to sarcastically indicate your belief in his inability. While my seemingly defense of him does not, as it simply provides an answer to your thought, in the interim.

[Arising_uk]

The point is: Apathy you exude, only while your life’s not threatened, and as such ensures that it shall be, if not, then your progeny. Your argument, as to what men have been/are, obliterates reason as well as earths finite life. Our argument of reason insists on the growth of man and ensures finite life, and ultimately, our own best interests. Change starts with wide spread commonality in thinking.

Have I heard any proposals for action? No, just emotive moralizing from those who live in comfort. See any valuable wild animals where Bill lives?

And I would be the last to attempt to deny you that right, but your point seemed to indicate he was out of line for doing so, if so, make up your mind.

My point with Bill is he loves to emote without solution. News is not philosophy.

Time has changed the game. The old timers lived in old times, relatively, animals were plenty and humans were few. Relatively, modern day man is overwhelming and animals are few. Today demands, we finally get off our asses, the times of taking life for granted are over, or else we’re over! For your sake, I hope you’re not an obese meat eater.

I'm not but in the near future I guess the meat-eater will have the substance in abundance as we'll be growing it. So I guess you think that it was okay for us to slaughter the animals then but not now? You want a truly outrageous extinction event, look up what the Yank recently did to the passenger pigeon, they even proudly caught the last flock knowing it was such. Why do you think the extinction of many major life forms will make a major difference to our survival? I admit it'll change a lot of stuff, kill a bunch of us, but stop our growth, I doubt it.

Agreed, you’ll never get me to argue against education.

Nice to know we agree on something.

You can read Nietzsche, sympathizing with his points or you can reel at the implications and seek change. So it’s not enough to merely say, read it. It would seem you sympathize with it, or at least show indifference.

Nope, just seeking to be the passing-over one but suspect we're all blinkers.

Haven’t you noticed that Bill seems to prefer inciting the riots and rarely participates in them? He says what he says so we’ll fill in the blanks. He tends to be a topic starter, not that he fails to make his point, which can often be seen in the topics themselves. In this particular thread he’s so much as said that he believed that his reasons are self evident. Seriously, what points does the word ‘extinction’ bring to your mind anyway?

That 99% of all species that have been are.

I doubt he has any blanks there but it'd be nice, if he does, if he'd answer a question or two about his thoughts. So why do people keep saying Man is the wild animal when this implies that the wild animals behave 'badly' in some way? Do they think that Man is doing something that another self-conscious animal would not do in our place? Do they think the poacher is killing for fun?

Your point would seem to sarcastically indicate your belief in his inability. While my seemingly defense of him does not, as it simply provides an answer to your thought, in the interim.

Don't hold your breath waiting.

[duszek]

Some killing for fun may go on in Africa. Or killing as a ritual for keeping the tribe together.
In a film by Pasolini a black boy maintained: E bello uccidere un leone. = It is nice to kill a lion. And they did not eat the lion, they killed it and enjoyed the frenzy of killing.
Maybe it was even the title of the film, I do not remember, I only read a collection of film scripts.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Is this a capsulized version of the film you were thinking of?



If it is, it looks like a very good film.





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