godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
All I have been more or less pointing out here is the absurd belief that what is inexplicable 'today' does not mean that it will be inexplicable 'tomorrow'.
According to the definition for "miracle", something that is considered a miracle today could be considered not one tomorrow. Fine.
Great. Finally 'we' got 'here'.
And, let 'us' not forget that that was just one, of many, definitions for the word 'miracle'. It, obviously, was not 'the' definition, as you just said and claimed here.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
I agree with that.
Great.
I was not sure that anyone could.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
However, this does not turn the inexplicable event into an explicable one today already.
That would all depend on the claimed 'inexplicable'.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
And, this has absolutely nothing at all to do with so-called 'future improvements' of natural laws, as natural laws are, obviously, the exact same for eternity.
This assumes that we would know the true natural laws.
What 'we', or at least some of 'us', do already know is that by the very 'nature' of 'natural laws', they would be the same forever.
And, even if, for example, a 'natural law' changed, then this could only happen and occur through, from, and by a 'natural law', naturally.
Again, this is the very 'nature' of 'natural laws', which 'naturally' happen and occur in 'Nature', 'naturally'.
In fact absolutely every thing that does happen and occur happens and occurs 'this way'.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
We obviously do not. We merely have a collection of stubborn, observable patterns for which no counterexamples have been found. The collection of these patterns does not constitute a mathematical theory.
Okay, if you say and believe so.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
We do not have the theory of everything ToE. It is a major unsolved problem:
For 'you' and some 'others' maybe. But, certainly not for 'us'. For 'we' already have this and thus have already re-solved this, literally.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything
A theory of everything (TOE), final theory, ultimate theory, unified field theory or master theory is a hypothetical, singular, all-encompassing, coherent theoretical framework of physics that fully explains and links together all aspects of the universe.[1]: 6 Finding a theory of everything is one of the major unsolved problems in physics.[2][3]
It has already been done. Although this is contrary to 'popular belief', in the days when this is being written.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
There is absolutely no guarantee that we will ever discover the Theory of Everything (ToE).
But it has already been done.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
Are you under some sort of illusion that an explanation for all of those, seemingly, inexplicable events can never be found in the future?
I have never claimed that "all" such explicable events will remain inexplicable.
Not in those words you have not. But, you have clearly stated that there are 'inexplicable events' here, right?
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
I have merely pointed out that there is no guarantee whatsoever that an explanation for an inexplicable event will ever be found.
But you never pointed this out, previously. Only after I pointed out that what you call an 'inexplicable event' implies a forever more.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
In that case feel free to prove or disprove by natural laws the continuum hypothesis (CH).
To me, 'theories', 'hypothesis', and similar are just guesses or assumptions about what 'could be'.
So, if the so-called 'continuum hypothesis' is just 'a hypothesis', then it is not something that actually interests me at all.
I prefer to only 'look at' what is actually True and/or Right and not what is just assumed or guessed to be true and/or right.
Also, I was talking about 'explaining' through and by natural laws. And, absolutely nothing about proving nor disproving any hypothesis nor theory.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
What does the word 'science' even mean or refer to, to you, exactly?
Science is the body of scientific theories. A scientific theory is a stubborn observable pattern which has been experimentally tested in order to find counterexamples.
Here 'we' have a prime example of why this one is not yet even close to uncovering, nor learning, and understanding the ToE.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
And, according to you this will last forever more, right?
Yes, Turing's Halting Problem will be unsolvable forever.
Okay, if you say and believe so, then it must be so.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
Also, how can you guarantee for the rest of eternity that the things in the field of mathematics that are inexplicable to you 'today' will be inexplicable forever more?
The definition of ZFC will never change. The definition of CH will never change. Therefore, the proof that neither CH nor the negation of CH could ever be proven from ZFC will remain valid forever. It is an eternal truth.
Yet 'definitions' change just about all of the time.
And, this is because of 'evolution', itself, or the 'natural law of evolution', itself.
But, "godelian" believes it knows more and better here.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Age wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:25 am
you speak as though some so-called 'theorem' here is absolute, unchangeable, and complete, 'today', forever more. Is this right and true?
Yes, Gödel's incompleteness theorem will forever remain provable from Peano Arithmetic theory. It is an eternal truth.
Again, okay.
godelian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:15 am
Another example. Pythagoras' theorem was discovered more than 2500 years ago. It is provable from Euclidean geometry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem
In mathematics, the Pythagorean theorem or Pythagoras' theorem is a fundamental relation in Euclidean geometry between the three sides of a right triangle. It states that the area of the square whose side is the hypotenuse (the side opposite the right angle) is equal to the sum of the areas of the squares on the other two sides.
The theorem is named for the Greek philosopher Pythagoras, born around 570 BC.
Pythagoras' theorem has been provable from Euclidean geometry for more than 2500 years now, and it will remain provable forever. This is again, an eternal truth.
Okay, so where is the 'miracle' here, exactly?
Where, here, is an event that is inexplicable by natural or scientific laws, exactly?