bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:38 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:27 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:18 pm
It is meaningless to talk about before the Big Bang. The Big Bang is the starting point.
It may well be meaningless to people who believe that the Universe began at and/or with the so-called 'big bang'.
But this is just solely because of their belief/s here, which will not let see and understand beyond a very limited perspective of things here.
Prove that the universe did not have a beginning.
The Fact that it is a physical, and a logical, impossibility is enough proof for some. However, for one who believes, absolutely, that the Universe did have a beginning, then there is no proof that the Universe did not have a beginning.
But for others who are OPEN here, even if singularity, that is; an infinite compression of matter, which is just all the matter in the Universe coming together and compressed together, as One, with all space removed from within it, then means that there is just one solitary piece of matter, with space around it, obviously, and 'obviously' because the singularity had to have expanded with what is generally called and referred to as 'the big bang', or what I would call here just 'a bang'.
Now, if what is existing is an infinite compressed, singular piece of matter and space, then this is just the shape and way of the Universe, at that moment. Now, how long that moment could have existed for is anyone's guess, but obviously this was the shape and/or state of the Universe, Itself. And, no matter what other ways, shapes, or states the Universe was in there always has to be both 'matter' and 'space' co-existing.
Now, if absolutely anyone would like to question and/or challenge me on this further, then please feel absolutely free to. The more I am questioned and/or challenged here, then the quicker the actual irrefutable Truth can be and will be revealed to others as well.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:18 pm
No, I am not talking about the eternal universe. I am talking about a universe that has a beginning and that beginning was not caused.
So, how long was the Universe in the so-called and alleged 'beginning state' for, prior to when the Universe so-called 'began'?
your clarity here "bahman" will be very helpful for the readers here.
This is an incoherent question. The universe existed at the Big Bang point.
So, you keep claiming. But do not forget that, to others, the Universe did not exist at the so-called 'big bang', but only after 'that bang'.
So, how and why do you claim that the Universe was already existing at the so-called 'big bang'?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
It is wrong to ask how long the universe was in that state.
Only to one who does not fully understand what the actual Truth is here.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
The Big Bang is a point in time.
Are you sure that this is what you were meant to say and write here?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Time passes and as time passes the universe evolves.
Do you purposely try to deflect here, or do you really not know you do it?
Also, do not forget we are talking about the alleged and claimed 'beginning of the Universe'.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:18 pm
Or maybe, you are the confused one who can not understand the simple model that I am describing.
This may well be true. But our own words here are showing and revealing to the readers here what the real and actual Truth is, right?
Now, let me see if I have your own made up and so-called simple model here correct.
your model states that the Universe began, but was in a state of beginning, right?
I am not saying that the universe began to exist.
Okay.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
That is one alternative though.
That is one alternative to what, though?
How many Truths could there be here?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
I am saying that the universe simply existed at the beginning.
So, to you, the Universe, Itself, was already existing, at the beginning of 'time' and of 'itself', right?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Do you have any argument against this?
Yes. But I do not need to share it because your own words are self-refuting, or just refuting themselves anyway.
Also, all arguments are not worth repeating if they are not sound and valid arguments.
Only sound and valid arguments are suffice here, well to me anyway.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
If this is right, then will you inform the readers for how long the Universe was in this state for?
I already answered that.
Which was the simply existing Universe, at the so-called beginning, just existed, but for no duration at all right?
By the way you are looking and sounding more and more like the old "preacher/priest" here who is being questioned and challenged by the young kid, in regards to their beliefs and claims that God created the Universe/everything.
Soon you will be telling us that there are some things that we are not meant to know, that you have already answered, or that it is wrong or that is is meaningless to ask for clarity or for you to elaborate on and about things, of which you have no idea nor clue of.