Peter Holmes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:31 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:23 am
Peter Holmes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:05 pm
Well, stone me.
So, the thing we call reality would exist if there were no humans. It would have 'emerged' and 'realised'
since the universe began.
If there were no humans, there would be no emerged & realized reality that exist.
Reality emerged and is realized upon a
human-based FSR and is perceived, known, believed and described via FSK.
This is complete nonsense.
It's mistaking what we believe, know and say about reality for reality itself.
And you agree that 'there are things out there (a)waiting to be seen by humans'. So you're asserting two utterly contradictory claims.
It is complete nonsense to you because you are ignorant, philosophically immature and incompetent.
PH:
It's mistaking what we believe, know and say about reality for reality itself.
Your 'reality itself' which is independent of the human condition is illusory.
I have challenged you to prove 'reality itself' [that which we {you} believe, know and say about] is absolutely independent of the human conditions.
You have not been able to do so, and most likely you don't have the philosophical competent even to understand [not agree with] this very contentious issue.
If you are philosophically mature, you would not have waved the issue above as complete nonsense but rather the contention between what you believe as a realist is totally in opposite to that of the anti-realists [many types].
If you are philosophically mature, you would have justified why your belief [p-realist] is true and those of the anti-realists are false.
And you agree that 'there are things out there (a)waiting to be seen by humans'. So you're asserting two utterly contradictory claims.
Strawman again. I did not write nor imply the above statement.
I wrote above;
"Reality emerged and is realized upon a
human-based FSR and is {subsequently} perceived, known, believed and described via FSK."
How is this contradictory?
I have explained in numerous threads on how Reality emerged and is realized prior to Perceiving, Knowing & Describing it.
Reality: Emergence & Realization Prior to Perceiving, Knowing & Describing
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40145
What is Emergence & Realization
viewtopic.php?t=40721
VA: Knowledge & Descriptions CANNOT Produce Facts
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39925 Apr 10, 2023
Perceiving, Knowing & Describing a Thing Not Related to Existence of the Thing
viewtopic.php?t=40715
The "since the universe began" itself is an emergent and realization as conditioned a
human-based FSR and is perceived, known, believed and described via FSK.
Without humans the "since the universe began' is a non-starter.
There is very compulsive a natural instinct [force] an evolutionary default to ascertain "since the universe began" as an
ideological certainty of a mind-independent reality which is illusory;
whenever this impulse is triggered [naturally] the philosophical-rational approach is to resort to
Pyrrhonian Skepticism as a therapeutic diversion to avoid being
delusional.
Here are some questions to chew on.
1 From what perspective can scientific paradigm shifts be described?
From the philosophical FSK, sociology FSK and linguistic FSK.
Missing the point. If a paradigm
'creates' reality, and there's no perspective outside a paradigm, then there's no way to describe paradigm-shifts. There's no perspective 'above the fray'. The very idea of paradigm-shifts assumes the existence of a reality which can be described differently.
Strawman again, I did not use the term "
creates".
I stated 'reality-as-it-is emerged and is realized within a paradigm".
The is no pre-existing paradigm nor reality, rather "within a paradigm" is a hindsight and emerged and is realized within a linguistic FSK.
So we describe a paradigm [not paradigm-shift in this case] as conditioned upon a linguistic FSK.
You are trapped by an evolutionary default that 'nothing can come from nothing.'
This is a psychological issue that is inherent in ALL humans via evolution.
It takes philosophical maturity to overcome the cold turkey to understand the reality behind it.
2 What is the truth-value of the claim that there's no such thing as classical truth-value?
From the philosophy-FSK and Analytical-critical-thinking FSK.
Missing the point. If the claim 'there's no such thing as classical truth-value' is true, then it demolishes itself.
There is only a truth-value [PH's] when one believe there is an absolutely mind independent reality out there to be mirrored, corresponded or obtained.
If the claim is not mirrored, corresponded or obtained with anything out there, then it is false, else it is true.
The above is grounded on philosophical realism.
(How many times?) The correspondence-theory-of-truth charge against realism is a straw man - one which antirealists need in order to justify their position. Correspondence theories are obviously incorrect - as Wittgenstein's 'meaning is use' insight demonstrates.
Strawman again, I did not mention the classic, "correspondence-theory-of-truth."
I am aware of the repetition and I think it is necessary because you are ignorant you are still entrapped by "correspondence" and mirroring of the subtle kind.
If something is true or false, then it has to be corresponded, mirrored and justified against something that is supposedly real.
But as I had argued from the anti-realist position, there is nothing pre-existing out there to be corresponded, mirrored and justified against.
Get the point?
Based on analytical-critical thinking, philosophical realism is not tenable.
3 How can a non-classical logic be described? Non-classically?
In any description we rely upon the human-based linguistic FSK.
In this case, we rely on 'meaning is use' i.e. how "non-classical logic" is used then defined by members who agree with it within a
human-based linguistic FSK.
PH, I am researching in depth into "Semantic Realism" [a subset of philosophical-realism] which I believe most of your philosophical views are grounded upon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_realism
Suggest you look into it and more deeper besides the above.
I suggest you stop and think very deeply about the fundamental mistake you're making. You muddle up three separate and different things:
what there is;
what we believe and
[what we] know about
what there is;
and what we say about what there is.
Actually, you are the one who is ignorant, philosophically immature and incompetent.
The fact is what you are proposing is an evolutionary default that is inherent in ALL humans, they are all kindergarten stuffs.
It is still inherent in me, so, I don't have to stop and think very deeply about any fundamental mistake I could be making with this evolutionary default.
Rather I have already used reflective and critical thinking to understand what is really real beyond that evolutionary default that entrapped one to be dogmatic with a reality that is absolutely independent of the human conditions.
Relatively, on this issue, you are still stuck in kindergarten, while I am doing my PhD thesis.
In any case, you are not likely to understand the above difference.