But one can NEVER Truly KNOW if 'you' exist. However, KNOWING that 'I' exist can NEVER be DOUBTED. And, 'this' IS BECAUSE of the 'thoughts' existing within the body.Darkneos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:18 pmIt’s not needing a paper so much as pointing out his arguments don’t justify knowing you exist.Constantine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:11 pm I didn't hear of the debunking. I would point out my position isn't a universal position (I don't believe in universals) and presume variations but the variations are fairly predictable. It also doesn't rest on identity (perception in the lowest levels of the visual cortex doesn't rely on a sense of self). But we hadn't progressed that far and you wanted a scientific explanation.
If you recall who tried to debunk Descartes let me know the name and paper. I don't believe Decartes limited consciousness to that axiom, just that if reduced to that alone he would be justified in knowing he existed even if all other things could be held with doubt.
WHY? BECAUSE 'you', personally, BELIEVE God does NOT exist?Darkneos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:18 pm Knowing you exist is an assumption after all not something you can demonstrate with total certainty.
Sure perception doesn’t need a sense of self but any claim to the existence of one does otherwise it’s incoherent.
And if you’ll recall Descartes needed God to bail himself out of the hole he dug himself in, so he’s not exactly the best person to cite here.
'These people', back in the days when this was being written, REALLY DID ASSUME or BELIEVE that 'they' HAD 'their OWN, personal, minds'.Darkneos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:18 pm But yes he did hinge the existence of his self on thought alone, because he couldn’t do it based on senses because that is in doubt.
Also I think you are advocating for universals if you’re just assuming I have an intuitive grasp. It’s not good to rely on what the other person knows since you don’t have direct access to their mind.
Which is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS to WATCH and OBSERVE, considering what the ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Truth IS, EXACTLY.
Do 'you', "darkneos", so-call 'really get' 'consciousness', itself?