Nope. Not only does your logic NOT follow but you don’t prove a mind. You just assert there has to be one.
Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
No, you didn't.
You are free to let it go but you failed to show that my argument is wrong.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Already did, check back over the pages.
And again the conclusion doesn’t follow. Nothing says mind is doing all this you’re just asserting it’s mind. It’s the god of the gaps/argument from ignorance.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
It’s page three, I literally showed how all your premises aren’t true.
Furthermore your conclusion doesn’t follow. None of what you said would imply it’s mind. Not that it matters, there is no evidence for a mind.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
If X and Y occur at the same point in time then the process is simultaneous. How could there be a change in a simultaneous process?Darkneos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:56 pmA logical argument isn’t proof of anything. Logic just shows conclusions follow from premises but that doesn’t make the premises true and they’ve been wrong before.
Also you’re delusional if you think this proves a mind. Literally none of it follows. X and y can occur at the same time, the process would just be instant but still change.
It means. A gap means that there is first X then nothing then Y.
The conclusion does follow as a matter of necessity. Simply if there is a gap and there is a change then there must be something that can cause Y given X.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
The process would be instant, the change still happens. Also there is no gap. There is X and then there is Y. There is never nothing, nothing doesn’t exist.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:46 pmIf X and Y occur at the same point in time then the process is simultaneous. How could there be a change in a simultaneous process?Darkneos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:56 pmA logical argument isn’t proof of anything. Logic just shows conclusions follow from premises but that doesn’t make the premises true and they’ve been wrong before.
Also you’re delusional if you think this proves a mind. Literally none of it follows. X and y can occur at the same time, the process would just be instant but still change.
It means. A gap means that there is first X then nothing then Y.
The conclusion does follow as a matter of necessity. Simply if there is a gap and there is a change then there must be something that can cause Y given X.
Nope. There is no gap. Also there doesn’t have to be something that can cause Y given X. Again this is just reading like you want mind to be true. Cause and effect happens every day without mind being involved.The conclusion does follow as a matter of necessity. Simply if there is a gap and there is a change then there must be something that can cause Y given X.
Even if your logic was sound NOTHING about this implies it has to be mind, it could be god, or flying pixies that are invisible. Even the phrase “must be something” is begging the question.
In short it’s nothing but bad logic that, even if true, doesn’t prove mind just asserts it HAS TO BE mind despite not demonstrating the existence of such a mind.
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Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
bahman—Darkneos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:56 pm
A logical argument isn’t proof of anything. Logic just shows conclusions follow from premises but that doesn’t make the premises true and they’ve been wrong before.
Also you’re delusional if you think this proves a mind. Literally none of it follows. X and y can occur at the same time, the process would just be instant but still change.
“Should” is just explaining what you want to be true not what is and then it fails from there. A gap between things doesn’t mean X doesn’t cause Y.
Nevermind that the conclusion doesn’t even follow one bit from this. You just kinda shoehorn mind in there
Doesn’t the above post look like Darkness’ assessment of your argument? Do you need more rebuttal from him?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
If the process is simultaneous then there is no change. I think that is obvious.Darkneos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:57 pmThe process would be instant, the change still happens.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:46 pmIf X and Y occur at the same point in time then the process is simultaneous. How could there be a change in a simultaneous process?Darkneos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:56 pm
A logical argument isn’t proof of anything. Logic just shows conclusions follow from premises but that doesn’t make the premises true and they’ve been wrong before.
Also you’re delusional if you think this proves a mind. Literally none of it follows. X and y can occur at the same time, the process would just be instant but still change.
It means. A gap means that there is first X then nothing then Y.
The conclusion does follow as a matter of necessity. Simply if there is a gap and there is a change then there must be something that can cause Y given X.
What do you mean by then? Could you please clarify it? If the process is simultaneous then there is no then.
There is a gap and the mind is necessary to allow causation of Y given X.
Cause and effect cannot be simultaneous. You have cause first then effct.
I call it the mind.
No, it is not.
It has to be something unchangeable with the ability to experience and cause. I call this the mind.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
He edited that post and I missed it first. I answered that post so the discussion is not over.commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:21 pmbahman—Darkneos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:56 pm
A logical argument isn’t proof of anything. Logic just shows conclusions follow from premises but that doesn’t make the premises true and they’ve been wrong before.
Also you’re delusional if you think this proves a mind. Literally none of it follows. X and y can occur at the same time, the process would just be instant but still change.
“Should” is just explaining what you want to be true not what is and then it fails from there. A gap between things doesn’t mean X doesn’t cause Y.
Nevermind that the conclusion doesn’t even follow one bit from this. You just kinda shoehorn mind in there
Doesn’t the above post look like Darkness’ assessment of your argument? Do you need more rebuttal from him?
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Nope, the change is just instant. Stop making stuff up.If the process is simultaneous then there is no change. I think that is obvious.
There is a then, it's after the instant. The process being simultaneous doesn't mean there is no then. There is before the process and after it.What do you mean by then? Could you please clarify it? If the process is simultaneous then there is no then.
Nope, there is no gap and even if there was that doesn't mean mind. Again you're begging the question.There is a gap and the mind is necessary to allow causation of Y given X.
Cause and effect can indeed be simultaneous.Cause and effect cannot be simultaneous. You have cause first then effct.
Irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you call it that doesn't make it so or prove anything.I call it the mind.
Nope, wrong again. You're still begging the question. Your logic is just bad. You are assuming the conclusion but nothing you have said is true and even if so doesn't lead to mind.It has to be something unchangeable with the ability to experience and cause. I call this the mind.
Re: Consciousness requires something more than functionality isomorphic to Turing Machine?
Because you're just wrong.