SpheresOfBalance wrote:As to this topic. I have given much of myself to this group, in that I have laid myself out on the table for all to see. Have any of you been able to live through my experiences vicariously? Or do you believe that you would have to authentically experience them? Old timers shall be more apt to make realistic comments, as I seriously doubt any newbies have used their time perusing my older posts, to see a more complete view of the exposition of my shortcomings.
Let's put aside your ego for a moment, shall we?
I think the terms are more subtle, less literal, than your post would suggest.
Taking the words absolutely literally, would mean that it is always completely impossible to life vicariously. In fact literally the whole idea is ludicrous. That would also mean that everything you or I, or anyone does, is wholly authentic.
But these words exist, and so they have some sort of meaning which you have not cottoned on to. But then I think no one on the thread has yet addressed what the question of the OP actually is.
I have asked for clarification, but none is forthcoming.
The reason I made the comment about you (above) is that you seem obsessed with your personal image, so much so that you seem to thrive on the validation of others. So far, this is the closest anyone has come to a demonstration of vicariousness.
Obviously, you don't know the ins and outs of neither my psyche, nor probably your own. Everyone cares and yet doesn't care for validation, depending upon the day. Do you live in a box with no human contact? You couldn't take it. It drives people crazy. Yet to be like a sardine in a can, just as readily can make one nuts.
As to my personal image, everyone likewise, depends upon that as well, to find their worth, for the benefit of others, and thus themselves. It would seem that you have some issues understanding the human animals needs.
As to obsession, is it degree that you sense, or rather merely the subject of the day?
Those things that you speak of, as if they only apply to me, is far from the truth, they apply to everyone. How would you 'truly' know of it, unless you exuded it?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:As to this topic. I have given much of myself to this group, in that I have laid myself out on the table for all to see. Have any of you been able to live through my experiences vicariously? Or do you believe that you would have to authentically experience them? Old timers shall be more apt to make realistic comments, as I seriously doubt any newbies have used their time perusing my older posts, to see a more complete view of the exposition of my shortcomings.
Let's put aside your ego for a moment, shall we?
I think the terms are more subtle, less literal, than your post would suggest.
Taking the words absolutely literally, would mean that it is always completely impossible to life vicariously. In fact literally the whole idea is ludicrous. That would also mean that everything you or I, or anyone does, is wholly authentic.
But these words exist, and so they have some sort of meaning which you have not cottoned on to. But then I think no one on the thread has yet addressed what the question of the OP actually is.
I have asked for clarification, but none is forthcoming.
The reason I made the comment about you (above) is that you seem obsessed with your personal image, so much so that you seem to thrive on the validation of others. So far, this is the closest anyone has come to a demonstration of vicariousness.
Obviously, you don't know the ins and outs of neither my psyche, nor probably your own. Everyone cares and yet doesn't care for validation, depending upon the day. Do you live in a box with no human contact? You couldn't take it. It drives people crazy. Yet to be like a sardine in a can, just as readily can make one nuts.
As to my personal image, everyone likewise, depends upon that as well, to find their worth, for the benefit of others, and thus themselves. It would seem that you have some issues understanding the human animals needs.
As to obsession, is it degree that you sense, or rather merely the subject of the day?
Those things that you speak of, as if they only apply to me, is far from the truth, they apply to everyone. How would you 'truly' know of it, unless you exuded it?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:As to this topic. I have given much of myself to this group, in that I have laid myself out on the table for all to see. Have any of you been able to live through my experiences vicariously? Or do you believe that you would have to authentically experience them? Old timers shall be more apt to make realistic comments, as I seriously doubt any newbies have used their time perusing my older posts, to see a more complete view of the exposition of my shortcomings.
Lev Muishkin wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
Let's put aside your ego for a moment, shall we?
I think the terms are more subtle, less literal, than your post would suggest.
Taking the words absolutely literally, would mean that it is always completely impossible to life vicariously. In fact literally the whole idea is ludicrous. That would also mean that everything you or I, or anyone does, is wholly authentic.
But these words exist, and so they have some sort of meaning which you have not cottoned on to. But then I think no one on the thread has yet addressed what the question of the OP actually is.
I have asked for clarification, but none is forthcoming.
The reason I made the comment about you (above) is that you seem obsessed with your personal image, so much so that you seem to thrive on the validation of others. So far, this is the closest anyone has come to a demonstration of vicariousness.
Obviously, you don't know the ins and outs of neither my psyche, nor probably your own. Everyone cares and yet doesn't care for validation, depending upon the day. Do you live in a box with no human contact? You couldn't take it. It drives people crazy. Yet to be like a sardine in a can, just as readily can make one nuts.
As to my personal image, everyone likewise, depends upon that as well, to find their worth, for the benefit of others, and thus themselves. It would seem that you have some issues understanding the human animals needs.
As to obsession, is it degree that you sense, or rather merely the subject of the day?
Those things that you speak of, as if they only apply to me, is far from the truth, they apply to everyone. How would you 'truly' know of it, unless you exuded it?
[quote=uwot post_id=182273 time=1415227850 user_id=7941]
[quote="thedoc"]Are vicarious experiences as valid as authentic ones that you have experienced yourself. Everyone has stories that relate to their lives, some have been lived directly, some are experiences of others and those stories are part of ones life.[/quote]
I don't know, thedoc, but I love the question. What philosophers know (the less bonkers ones, at any rate) is that all experience of 'things' is vicarious. We only experience phenomena, we have no direct perception of the thing that is responsible for phenomena (ding an sich/the thing itself). This raises the possibility that someone else's interpretation of any phenomenon is a better description of the thing itself than your own. In which case, it is possible that you could have a better understanding of reality by listening to someone else rather than experience it yourself. There are several contributors to this forum for whom this is true all of the time.
You make a very good point that a lot of our 'Truth' is what other people tell us. As a general rule, I recommend suspending judgement on anything that people say that doesn't agree with things that you have seen happen yourself, and can be accommodated in a direct cause and effect chain.
[/quote]
Bayesian reasoning manages that sort of thing rather well.
