Is it possible to convince anyone with the right words?

[surreptitious57]

Unfortunately however most people are just like you in that they already have strongly held positions and views and instead of learning and
gaining more and /or new knowledge they have a bias confirmation outlook which makes them prefer to just look for and find ways to express
what they already think or assume and /or believe is right as being absolutely true

I am actually letting go of bias the older I get and as a consequence am more free than ever but there is still much to do
It is for me is a work in progress so I dont ever expect to be entirely bias free but can still work to reduce it significantly

[surreptitious57]

I am used to not finding people interested. I do not feel disappointed in regard to this. I totally understand this. I do not expect anything of people nor do I force any issue. If however I am coming across as feeling disappointed well that is because of how you can completely misunderstand
and misconstrue and / or misinterpret what I say and write especially in how you take it to such an extent sometimes that you actually say the
exact opposite of what I just said. I feel disappointed in the lack of ability I have in being understood

You cannot control how others interpret your words as I have already said. You are therefore being disappointed by something that is not of your choosing. Engaging with me does not help you either because I know nothing. Maybe if you looked around you might find a better quality of open ended discussion because I unfortunately cannot provide it for you I am a total beginner here. You need someone much more knowledgeable than me if you want productive discourse. And I think that I will leave it there because once again we appear to be the only ones actually posting here

[ken]

The questioning and /or challenging is not limited by the amount of people

Not absolutely so but the larger a forum is the greater the chance of you being questioned or challenged is going to be

Also not absolutely so.

Whether you stay here or go else where is ultimately up to you as I cannot make that decision for you for only you can

Obviously. Just like whether you stay here or go else where is ultimately up to you.

[ken]

Unfortunately however most people are just like you in that they already have strongly held positions and views and instead of learning and
gaining more and /or new knowledge they have a bias confirmation outlook which makes them prefer to just look for and find ways to express
what they already think or assume and /or believe is right as being absolutely true

I am actually letting go of bias the older I get and as a consequence am more free than ever but there is still much to do

Yes that there is still much more for you to do is obvious and very true.

It is for me is a work in progress so I dont ever expect to be entirely bias free but can still work to reduce it significantly

Yes you can do reduce it very slowly or you can reduce it very quickly. Ultimately the choice is yours. I can only show you the choices. I can not choose them for you.

[ken]

I am used to not finding people interested. I do not feel disappointed in regard to this. I totally understand this. I do not expect anything of people nor do I force any issue. If however I am coming across as feeling disappointed well that is because of how you can completely misunderstand
and misconstrue and / or misinterpret what I say and write especially in how you take it to such an extent sometimes that you actually say the
exact opposite of what I just said. I feel disappointed in the lack of ability I have in being understood

You cannot control how others interpret your words as I have already said.

Yes, you have insisted on this point, on a few occasions already. And, I have already explained to you what I can do, and what I have control over. That is I CAN control how others interpret My words, by changing the way I write and expressing My words. The more I learn about how to better express more concisely and succinctly, then the more control I have over how others interpret My words.

Some times you say you do not know any thing, but other times, like now, you insist that you do know what is true and correct.

You are therefore being disappointed by something that is not of your choosing.

If I choose to feel disappointed or not IS actually My choosing.

In fact EVERY thing I do I choose to do, and is therefore actually of My choosing.

Engaging with me does not help you either because I know nothing.

Ah, there it is again, you know nothing, when it suits you. But also when it suits you, you do know some things. If you know nothing, then how do you know that you can NOT control how others interpret your words?

Do you write in a way so that others can interpret your words? Or, do you just mix any letter with any other letter, and thus truly do NOT have control over how others interpret your words?

Maybe if you looked around you might find a better quality of open ended discussion because I unfortunately cannot provide it for you I am a total beginner here.

Do you think that you are the one that I am looking for?

But it is the 'total beginners', that is very young children, who do provide truly open ended discussions. They are the ones who are far more open then the 'elders' are, who apparently are truly unable to discuss without letting their preconceptions and beliefs interfere with a truly open ended discussion. Young children are very inquisitive and will ask clarifying questions, like, "What do you mean?" "How is that so?" et cetera. And they are far better at challenging, for example, "If God created everything, then what created God?" et cetera. Adults will generally not even ask clarifying questions, they appear to generally think that they know it all already and that there is nothing new to learn. They also appear to be to lazy to challenge things and/or they either just accept what is being said, because they believe it to be true or right previously anyway, or they will just disregard and/or just reject what is being said, if it is contrary to their already held beliefs.

If you are unable to ask questions to Me and/or you are unable to challenge Me, then that is fair enough. I totally understand WHY.

You need someone much more knowledgeable than me if you want productive discourse.

WHY would you even think this? Depending on what you actually mean by 'knowledgeable', of course, a person considered to have a considerable amount of knowledge already are some times the hardest people of all to have a productive discourse/discussion with. The ones who are the best to have productive and truly awe inspiring discussions with are those ones who are the truly intelligent ones. These are also, by the way, the truly knowledgeable ones, that is the ones who are truly able to obtain new and more knowledge.

And I think that I will leave it there because once again we appear to be the only ones actually posting here

Okay.

Is it just because there appears to be only us two posting here that that is the only reason you want to leave, or is there some other more reasonable reason for your decision here?

[Walker]

Milling, as in milling about. Without aim, or purpose. Doing, for the sake of doing because any movement is a doing, even milling. Without aim, everything becomes the target. The piercing arrow of intellect doesn’t travel far before getting stuck in something, some why, or who, or what. Bases loaded.

Reductionism is always shot in the direction of a unified field, or that which applies to every situation. The common denominator of the universe, if you will.

Everything that moved, had to move.
Everything that moves, has to move.

This distinguishes true from false.

If think you have to move, and you don’t move, then your thought is false. If you really had to move and weren’t just fooling yourself, then you would move.

You may have the urge to move, but other factors override the urge, compelling you to do what you must, which is not move.

Same can be said for a planet.
It only moves because it must.
Same can be said for a couch potato.
Likewise a flagellum.

Must covers all bases, even should.

[ken]

Milling, as in milling about. Without aim, or purpose. Doing, for the sake of doing because any movement is a doing, even milling. Without aim, everything becomes the target. The piercing arrow of intellect doesn’t travel far before getting stuck in something, some why, or who, or what. Bases loaded.

Reductionism is always shot in the direction of a unified field, or that which applies to every situation. The common denominator of the universe, if you will.

Everything that moved, had to move.
Everything that moves, has to move.

This distinguishes true from false.

If think you have to move, and you don’t move, then your thought is false. If you really had to move and weren’t just fooling yourself, then you would move.

You may have the urge to move, but other factors override the urge, compelling you to do what you must, which is not move.

Same can be said for a planet.
It only moves because it must.
Same can be said for a couch potato.
Likewise a flagellum.

Must covers all bases, even should.

ALL of that is so obvious, and of which I have agreed with all along. You just keep repeating what I already agree with.

I have just moved on, while you are stuck back at that point.

[Walker]

The idleness of your milling question, thus revealed.

[surreptitious57]

The more I learn about how to better express more concisely and succinctly then the more control I have over how others interpret My words

This is generally true rather than absolutely true but do you really want to control how everyone thinks whenever they interpret your words

[surreptitious57]

you know nothing when it suits you but also when it suits you you do know some things

Compared to the sum total of all human knowledge I really do know nothing even if I do know some things too
And so there is no contradiction between me saying I know nothing while actually knowing some things as well

[surreptitious57]

Do you think that you are the one that I am looking for

I have no idea so who is the one that you are looking for

[surreptitious57]

But it is the total beginners that is very young children who do provide truly open ended discussions. They are the ones who are far more
open then the elders are who apparently are truly unable to discuss without letting their preconceptions and beliefs interfere with a truly
open ended discussion. Young children are very inquisitive and will ask clarifying questions

This is very true because their minds are more open to ideas whereas adults are more closed

[surreptitious57]

If you are unable to ask questions to Me and /or you are unable to challenge Me then that is fair enough

There is absolutely no reason why I cannot ask questions as I am perfectly capable of asking them as you know
Would you like me to only ask questions from now on or would you like me to only ask them some of the time

[surreptitious57]

Is it just because there appears to be only us two posting here that that is the only reason
you want to leave or is there some other more reasonable reason for your decision here

It is just because there appears to be only two of us posting here
No one else seems to be that interested in what you have to say

[ken]

The idleness of your milling question, thus revealed.

I just asked you clarifying questions, to give you a chance to clarify and reduce further that what you state as being the absolutely truth.

If you can NOT answer My questions, then so be it.

If you can NOT reduce any further, then so be it.

I was just giving you the chance to.

Stating things as though you know what you are talking about, but you being unable to explain further what you are talking about, exposed the Truth, by itself.

According to your logic, no matter what One does, including "the idleness of a milling question", then that is what IS needed, which I totally agree with also, by the way. So, through the so called 'idleness of My milling question' and your inability to answer, I have achieved what MUST NEEDED to be done.

There is the difference between 'you' and 'I'. I can clarify, explain, and reduce what you can NOT. What you, therefore, NEED to NOT be able to do, I NEED to do.

I achieved what I aimed for, and for the purpose intended. I thus am creating what IS, needed