i keep wondering what else is there? i appreciate and respect all of the aesthetics of the past and present, but i keep looking and looking for something else. i often just play something just to play something, frustrated with my old cd's, but sometimes i still love listening to them too. i sometimes, but not always, get frustrated saying to myself, there is nothing else, there is nothing else.
i've wondered before, just like everyone else, or maybe not, i don't know, well what could be next?
for immense breakthroughs and aesthetic change it seems to have certain features. some of them i've thought to be are
invention, mixed with a new discovery.
such as maybe Les Paul and the electric guitar.
are we just waiting now, on the next Les Paul or is it truly over? like when 'the music's over'
Aesthetics now at a stand still?
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
From what you have said I will assume that you are refering to your appreciation of the aesthetics of music. Music takes on a new dimention when you play it yourself, so if you don't play an instrument I would recomend you do so, or take up singing. Most instruments, including singing, only involve one part, usually the melody, but the Piano, Organ, Guitar, and Harp, and possibly others, allow you to play the harmony for a more complete rendition of the work. Participation teaches a greater appreciation of the aesthetics, even if you don't play well, when you listen to a virtuoso you will have a greater appreciation of the preformance.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
hi doc, thanks for your reply, but that was not what i was referring to. i wonder if looking at this way might help you understand what i meant... architecture, shapes and forms... they seem to have reached their height. all we can do now is rearrange them around endlessly. is there anything to be found other now than the shape of the square, the circle, the rectangle... all we can do now is replay, and/or rearrange these shapes, forms, colors, etc.. unless a new geometrical shape, or color is discovered.
in terms of music, it seems that way to me now as well. everything seems to have reached it's 'peak' and all we can do now is replay and rearrange.. unless some outstanding discovery is made that takes everything else to an entirely different level that we've never experienced before.
i like alot of the new stuff posted in plutos thread and around the forum. alot of it is using the old and present and rearranging and blending and making social statements.
aside from this, what else is there, unless some astounding discovery is made? electricity changed music immensly. is there something aside from or beyond electricity that would change the entire landscape of music...
is there anything possibly beyond the tools an artist uses? paint, pencil, pen, current known shapes, forms, shades, colors....
could an architect go beyond his/her current tools, shapes, forms, shades, colors.. aside from continuously rearranging them?
it seems we are now at a stand still, aside from repetition and rearranging unless some astounding discovery, or discoveries are made.
in terms of music, it seems that way to me now as well. everything seems to have reached it's 'peak' and all we can do now is replay and rearrange.. unless some outstanding discovery is made that takes everything else to an entirely different level that we've never experienced before.
i like alot of the new stuff posted in plutos thread and around the forum. alot of it is using the old and present and rearranging and blending and making social statements.
aside from this, what else is there, unless some astounding discovery is made? electricity changed music immensly. is there something aside from or beyond electricity that would change the entire landscape of music...
is there anything possibly beyond the tools an artist uses? paint, pencil, pen, current known shapes, forms, shades, colors....
could an architect go beyond his/her current tools, shapes, forms, shades, colors.. aside from continuously rearranging them?
it seems we are now at a stand still, aside from repetition and rearranging unless some astounding discovery, or discoveries are made.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
I do see your point and I will try to explain a few ideas that come to mind, but bear with me as I may seem to rambel a bit. Materials are always being developed and improved like steel, cincrete, glass etc. and these small incrimental steps will someday allow an advance that well seem like an 'all at once' jump. The Wright Brothers brought together several technologies that had been in development for years before, but they assembled them in just the right way and were flying a 'heavier than air craft'.
In naval warships at the end of the 19th century the design of the Battleship had stabilized but there were coutinued incremental improvments to gun laying, propellants and armor till it was realized that the old methods needed to be abandon, ranges had gotten longer and there was a need for better gunnery. In 1905 the British launched the HMS Dreadnaught and Naval warfare changed dramaticly, but was an accumulation of many small changes.
I read somewhere that in theatre all the possible plots for a story had been developed by the ancient Greeks and any new story, play, movie is just a variation on those plot lines.
I had a friend that played bass in a rock band, and he commented once that the rips used on guitar were taken from classical music with just a change in tempo.
Several years ago NASCAR imposed 'restrictor plates' that were required to be used on the engines used in competition. The purpose was to reduce the Horspower and therefore the speed of the cars in an effort to improve safety, slower speed crashes were thought to be less deadly. The car builders and engine builders got the plates, worked with them and the engines produced more power and the cars went faster, the plates had forced innovations that neutralized the intended purpose.
In USAC the roadsters ruled and to win at Indy you drove a roadster with an Offenhauser engine, and then they allowed Dan Gurney to run a lotus with a ford engine and the cars changed completly.
If aesthetics seems to be at a standstill, you can be pretty sure that somewhere things are developing and at some time, new ideas will expolde onto the scene. Perhaps buildings will not get much taller, but what would the point be of that, it's just a novelty and doesnt really enhance the function. In Oct. '08 our old house burned, it was a total loss, in Dec '09 we moved into our new house built on the same site, in the same place with just about the same footprint, but our builder has described it as Unique. Indeed there are features that did not go allong with prevailing ideas of what a house this size should include. Small incrimental changes will someday make for drastic changes that will seem sudden when they appear.
In naval warships at the end of the 19th century the design of the Battleship had stabilized but there were coutinued incremental improvments to gun laying, propellants and armor till it was realized that the old methods needed to be abandon, ranges had gotten longer and there was a need for better gunnery. In 1905 the British launched the HMS Dreadnaught and Naval warfare changed dramaticly, but was an accumulation of many small changes.
I read somewhere that in theatre all the possible plots for a story had been developed by the ancient Greeks and any new story, play, movie is just a variation on those plot lines.
I had a friend that played bass in a rock band, and he commented once that the rips used on guitar were taken from classical music with just a change in tempo.
Several years ago NASCAR imposed 'restrictor plates' that were required to be used on the engines used in competition. The purpose was to reduce the Horspower and therefore the speed of the cars in an effort to improve safety, slower speed crashes were thought to be less deadly. The car builders and engine builders got the plates, worked with them and the engines produced more power and the cars went faster, the plates had forced innovations that neutralized the intended purpose.
In USAC the roadsters ruled and to win at Indy you drove a roadster with an Offenhauser engine, and then they allowed Dan Gurney to run a lotus with a ford engine and the cars changed completly.
If aesthetics seems to be at a standstill, you can be pretty sure that somewhere things are developing and at some time, new ideas will expolde onto the scene. Perhaps buildings will not get much taller, but what would the point be of that, it's just a novelty and doesnt really enhance the function. In Oct. '08 our old house burned, it was a total loss, in Dec '09 we moved into our new house built on the same site, in the same place with just about the same footprint, but our builder has described it as Unique. Indeed there are features that did not go allong with prevailing ideas of what a house this size should include. Small incrimental changes will someday make for drastic changes that will seem sudden when they appear.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
thanks for your reply doc, i didn't mind your rambling at all. i enjoyed your entire post and all of the examples.
i see your point about how 'several technologies [have been and can be] brought together to someday allow an advance that will seem like an 'all at once' jump.'
i read an interesting book once that provided a sort of panoramic view of various discoveries from the past slowly culminating together to eventually meet simultaneously creating a fast blaze of astounding change.
i appreciate and understand the examples you provided, but i still cannot fathom right now what could be next? there will certainly be more development in materials, efficiency, etc.. but i still cannot fathom how much farther we could go now other than eventually floating around in biometric ameobic bubbles?
i'm not against the search for progress, and i benefit from it and appreciate it every day. i just cannot see us doing too much more than where we are now. for example, again, architecture, we can perfect it and then rearrange it in any and every possible way, but after this, what is there? what will we live in? the above mentioned ameobic bubbles?
a thousand years from now, a million years from now? what will our homes be? what will our art be? our music? the only thing that i think that could change this would be discovery of new shapes, new sounds, new colors.... ? what would a never seen before color look like? what would a never heard before sound sound like?
you wrote, 'I read somewhere that in theatre all the possible plots for a story had been developed by the ancient Greeks and any new story, play, movie is just a variation on those plot lines.'
it seems that way, unless there were to be some unprecedented change in humanity in the future and it was based on that.
again, thank you for your reply, i guess we don't know, but it still appears to me that aesthetics are at a stand still aside from repetition and rearrangement. although, you never know, there may be small incremental changes going on that will end up culminating together one day (who knows.. in a thousand years, a million years, or maybe even one year) that will be amazing and truly astound us.
i see your point about how 'several technologies [have been and can be] brought together to someday allow an advance that will seem like an 'all at once' jump.'
i read an interesting book once that provided a sort of panoramic view of various discoveries from the past slowly culminating together to eventually meet simultaneously creating a fast blaze of astounding change.
i appreciate and understand the examples you provided, but i still cannot fathom right now what could be next? there will certainly be more development in materials, efficiency, etc.. but i still cannot fathom how much farther we could go now other than eventually floating around in biometric ameobic bubbles?
i'm not against the search for progress, and i benefit from it and appreciate it every day. i just cannot see us doing too much more than where we are now. for example, again, architecture, we can perfect it and then rearrange it in any and every possible way, but after this, what is there? what will we live in? the above mentioned ameobic bubbles?
a thousand years from now, a million years from now? what will our homes be? what will our art be? our music? the only thing that i think that could change this would be discovery of new shapes, new sounds, new colors.... ? what would a never seen before color look like? what would a never heard before sound sound like?
you wrote, 'I read somewhere that in theatre all the possible plots for a story had been developed by the ancient Greeks and any new story, play, movie is just a variation on those plot lines.'
it seems that way, unless there were to be some unprecedented change in humanity in the future and it was based on that.
again, thank you for your reply, i guess we don't know, but it still appears to me that aesthetics are at a stand still aside from repetition and rearrangement. although, you never know, there may be small incremental changes going on that will end up culminating together one day (who knows.. in a thousand years, a million years, or maybe even one year) that will be amazing and truly astound us.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
I don't think art has been used up at all. Maybe we've just lost our way with aesthetics. We are look to be provided with aesthetic experiences rather than being responsible for them ourselves. Take a flute, a drum or just your own voice, find a quiet place and feel the beauty of things around you - which is surely no more difficult than it has ever been - and translate it through the means you have in whatever intuitive, logical, responsive, way you like, then practice; focus on what you like in what you did, do it again and again, refining it. I can almost guarantee that no matter how trite are disjointed a lot of it may sound, there will be something unique moving and original all of our own in what you do that will be very satisfying to you.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
Music is a good example of how inovation can happen within a particular art form. I took Piano lessons when I was in school and then got away from it. In Aug 2010 our church burned and other congregations started offering items and help to rebuild, one of those items was a Sohmer Model 57 baby grand piano, and we volunteered to store it till the new church was built. We are expecting that it will be moved out of our living room by the end of this year. In the meantime I found one that I couldn't pass up. A Baldwin model R 5'-8" baby grand, both are in our living room. I have only re-learned 2 pieces that I feel that I play well, I'm working on others, but I still do not play them exactly like you might hear on youtube, I intrepret them to suit myself. I listen how others play them and take what I like or vary it to suit myself. Likewise an artist might make a copy of a master piece but change the hue to suit a different mood, or combine elements from several paintings. Many times an artist will be praised on how a particular work was intrepreted, sometimes not. I read the play Equus and thought the staging and costumes as described would have been very impressive, then I saw the movie version and was very much dissapointed with the intrepretation.
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Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
If you like mixed genra music, this should suit you,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZcuzgJKT4&translated=1
BTW, the GrooveBarbers were at one time Rockapella,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuzc4jgw ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nI2bVtQ ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZcuzgJKT4&translated=1
BTW, the GrooveBarbers were at one time Rockapella,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuzc4jgw ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nI2bVtQ ... re=related
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
hi Bernard, thanks, i see what you mean. although the same tools, scales/modes, etc... are being used in your example but only according to our own unique needs. again, it reminds me of architecture. we can live in a house and suit it to our unique needs, and make it as efficient as it could possibly be. your neighbor may do the same in their own way. but what more is there after this?
will we do this forever? we have seemed to reach the maximum in most respects. cars could get a little bit more sleeker, faster, interpersonal, and anything beyond this i'd guess would be heading into Jetsonville. as in flying cars, roadsigns in the sky. spacesuits with flying people. Are you familiar with the cartoon 'The Jetsons'. if not, its a cartoon about a futuristic family. they fly around in little space cars, i don't know if you would even call them cars, they are little spaceships that they buzz around in instead of cars.
but, even then, in the cartoon, that seems as though it might become our future reality, still uses the same aesthetics. the same rearranged shapes, colors, etc... but only in a different way.
however, if someone in the future was singing a song, maybe the lyrics would be different than any we've ever heard before. maybe it would be something like this?:
'i'm looking for a spacefrog, but can't find a log, i went to visit my ma, i took my space kitty and my space dog, put on their electrosuits, stepped out the door to take them out for a walk in her back yard, looked down and saw no grass, rolled around laughing fell on my ass with my space dog and my space cat in the no sun on the no grass'
will we do this forever? we have seemed to reach the maximum in most respects. cars could get a little bit more sleeker, faster, interpersonal, and anything beyond this i'd guess would be heading into Jetsonville. as in flying cars, roadsigns in the sky. spacesuits with flying people. Are you familiar with the cartoon 'The Jetsons'. if not, its a cartoon about a futuristic family. they fly around in little space cars, i don't know if you would even call them cars, they are little spaceships that they buzz around in instead of cars.
but, even then, in the cartoon, that seems as though it might become our future reality, still uses the same aesthetics. the same rearranged shapes, colors, etc... but only in a different way.
however, if someone in the future was singing a song, maybe the lyrics would be different than any we've ever heard before. maybe it would be something like this?:
'i'm looking for a spacefrog, but can't find a log, i went to visit my ma, i took my space kitty and my space dog, put on their electrosuits, stepped out the door to take them out for a walk in her back yard, looked down and saw no grass, rolled around laughing fell on my ass with my space dog and my space cat in the no sun on the no grass'
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
The fact we have two legs limits us eventually I guess, and that we can only hum to ourselves in a certain range, or see light at certain wavelengths. We have to be thankful to death that it puts an end to things for us, rather than living forever with the limitations of our forms - though some apparently aspire to that horrific idea! I don't think the length of our lives is in any way long enough to exhaust the possibilities we can find within our own limits, and a significant part of our being alive has to do with being able to push our limits. In the end aesthetics is useful to each of us in a personal way only - like helping to get out of bed with a smile.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
indeed, extraordinarily facinating.
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
thank you Bernard, i'm just starting to work on some projects around the house and was looking for some music to listen to. i took out some old cd's, and for some reason aside from all the ones i've thrown away i saved TLC. i have it on right now and the song playing is a song that is japanese r&b techno fusion and more. i have more to add, but am not able to right now, but thank you for your patience and will try to add more as soon as possible. thanks
Re: Aesthetics now at a stand still?
so aesthetically, most right now is moot aside from internal output. for now anyways, it seems anyways, we've pretty much reached the max in tools, colors, sounds.. what's left? internal output.