Sentimentality in art, what is it?

[Pluto]

Sentimentality in art, what it is? Why are some of Picasso's works seen as such. And which are they?

[marjoramblues]

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[duszek]

Do you mean sentimentality in a critical sense ?

Some primitive paintings are "cute".
Many people like this sort of art and put it in their bedrooms though.
Classical examples: a male deer roaring in the woods (der röhrende Hirsch, jelen na rykowisku) or a gypsy girl or some of the pictures that Franz Bubendorf saw in rooms to rent in the novel by Nabokov "King, Queen, Knave".

What´s in your bedroom Pluto ?

In my bedroom there are pictures of animals by Franz Marc, because of the colours.

And there is one picture of a young smiling boy whose face I try to remember if I want to meditate. During a meditation class we were told to imagine a face of a smiling child that´s why I looked for a nicely smiling kid in newspapers, found one and put him on the wall.

A photograph is never kitch or sentimental. It is always truthful.

[artisticsolution]

Below is a photo that is both kitsch and sentimental, I think. Is there anything wrong with that? Once long ago, I went to this lecture by this famous architect...can't remember his name...but he was talking about Las Vegas and the Neon (which I have always loved...oh and there is this really cool museum here now called the neon boneyard...http://www.neonmuseum.org/ by appointment only...but so friggin cool I can't take it...all old time casino neon that no longer exists but I remember seeing as a kid either downtown or on the strip) anyway, he was talking about how most people shun their noses at neon...considering it more kitsch than 'real art' not suited to adorn 'noble architecture' ...or something like that. I remember thinking "right on! (that's what we said back then...lol) It is about time vegans stop apologizing for our 'culture' as if it has to compete with what other cities boast as beautiful." There is already a Louvre, a Vatican, a MET....we don't all need to be the same....there is (or should be) a place for kitsch.

Even thought I couldn't stand the last mayor goodman (his wife is his successor ) I have to say he never apologized for Las Vegas. I did enjoy that about his personality...I just didn't like how he only catered to the rich...anyway...he built a mob museum here (in the old courthouse) and I must say...it is fabulous....if you ever come to Vegas you must see it...any way...he probably supplied most of the pieces...as he used to be a mouthpiece for the Mob. Grrrr...talk about your love/hate relationships. Just goes to show you how even elitist crimes-OK-for-the-rich-or-those-who-pay-me-well-blood-sucking-lawyers can have a good bone in their body and actually serve a decent purpose in life...huh go figure.

Chit...oh yeah...picasso....kitsch or what? Where were we? Sorry Pluto...

[duszek]

A photograph is always truthful so it cannot be kitch.
If a woman tries to look cute the photograph shows a woman who tries to look cute, no more and no less.
It can be tragic or funny or something else.

Kitsch is a creation by a human being and it is a lie.

Let me try a story which would probably be kitsch:

There was once upon a time a lovely sweet little princess who was so smashing that every cute and sweet prince would fall on his knees any time he saw her. So these princes started fighting for her and it was so cute and sweet to see that everyone was flabberghasted and when one prince, who was the cutest of them all, showed his courage and disarmed the terrible loathsome draggon the cute darling of a princess was so overwhelmed by this that she cried for joy and everybody was overwhelmed too and wished the happy couple a long sweet life ...

Are you still reading ?

And this is supposed to be serious, NOT a satire of any kind.
Deadly serious even, not a bit of irony, never.

A simple formula for kitsch: too much suger added in order to improve the effect, but the effect is rather spoilt because the balance is lost.

[duszek]

Suger, candy, candy, suger, lolly, suger, candy, candy, suger, suger, suger, candy, lolly, chocolate, candy, suger, ...

Any bitter lemon available ?

Pluto probably meant by art "visual art". But film is also art, and visual too.
Melodrama tends to be over-sweet and is thus unbearable to some of us.

If you are moved by feelings expressed by works of art then this art is sentimental probably.
I was moved recently by "Stabat mater" by Pergolesi.

But on the other hand, what can art express apart from feelings ? Intellectual insights ?

The criterium is: is the work of art truthful and not trying to please or is it rather expressing an over-sugered lie ?

[artisticsolution]

Hi Duszek,

D:A photograph is always truthful so it cannot be kitch.

AS: What about all those glamor mags that use photoshop to make the models look better than they do....is that 'truth'? What about digitally enhanced photos that , for example, superimpose hell fire under Heavenly gates...is that 'truth'?

D:Kitsch is a creation by a human being and it is a lie.

AS: You may be right about it being a lie, but 'non kitsch' also can be a lie.

Let me try a story which would be non kitsch:

There once was a man who walked in on a slave being raped and beaten by her master. The man rushed over to the scene, grabbed the master and beat the shit out of him...and saved the woman. The woman, ever grateful, became his lover and slave...because he was soooo kind. But their love could never be an open love because it was not proper for him to have a relationship with a 'slave'...so he kept it hidden and took a non slave to be is wife. Shit happens...and he ends up murdering his non slave wife."

What a guy...huh?

Now, I ask you...how is this story more honest than the Kitsch story? Do you think it happens more often that living 'happily ever after'? Or is it that the story is more appealing to us for whatever reason?

I wonder sometimes why we love to hate :

"Suger, candy, candy, suger, lolly, suger, candy, candy, suger, suger, suger, candy, lolly, chocolate, candy, suger,"


and love to love:


"Any bitter lemon available ?"

Here is some bitter lemon kitsch....this always made me smile...I hope you like it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy6DGZEt ... ure=fvwrel

[reasonvemotion]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... oment.html


and this is the shot that supposedly supersedes the 1945 one of "the kiss". Kitsch or sentimental?

[Bernard]

See Picasso's Blue and Rose periods for possible sentimentality. But Picasso was pretty brutal - sort of artist that takes a very large hammer to sentimentality then gently rebuilds something from the fragments: a dove, a child... something simple and not without sentiment, but quite a distance from sentimentality. The blue and rose period paintings have been used within a sentimentality framework, but they are a lot about his direct experience of poverty and that by its nature doesn't usually invite sentimentality, so it couldn't have been in his intent to make of them something sentimental.

[duszek]

I think that the story about terrible things happening is also kitch. It uses stereotypes and big contrasts, AS.

What I would call no kitch is when someone tries to communicate some honest new insight.

Are there any new insights possible at all ?
Yes, all the time. Because the world changes all the time and we change with it.

[duszek]

I couldn´t hear the sound, I only saw the pictures, AS.
Well, I am not sure about this one.

But I do enjoy American comedy sometimes.
Example: Dustin Hoffmann as "Dorothy" in the film "Tootsie".

[artisticsolution]

I couldn´t hear the sound, I only saw the pictures, AS.
Well, I am not sure about this one.

But I do enjoy American comedy sometimes.
Example: Dustin Hoffmann as "Dorothy" in the film "Tootsie".

Sorry Duszek. Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi0dUgWzeWg

'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' was a kids movie made in 1968. If you ever get a chance I recommend it highly. It's a classic.

[Pluto]

Thanks to everyone for commenting. I think in Picasso's work sentimentality, according to a general idea floating in the air, is seen as such because of its depiction of love or beauty. These two seem secondary, weaker than a harsher conception of how things are/might be. I thought it might be his Rose Period but I can't see it.

Is this not sentimental?:

dove1.jpg (24.41 KiB) Viewed 5961 times