Philosophy of Mind

[Belinda]

B,

You want rule by consensus of whatever number of persons can personally get together and discuss what's to be done.

No.

I presume you also want a great many local networks instead of a central state.

Yes.

Many (or most) would agree that it's best whenever possible to do without a central authority making laws.

There's a helluva lot of domesticated folks millin' about. I'm not sure right now where the wind blows.

You are far too optimistic about human nature if you believe thieves, colonisers, and murderers can be controlled by networks of friendly neighbours.

I never anything along those lines.

Some bad man will come along and threaten to poison that well unless the farmers pay him safety money.

So: shoot him and be done with it.

Eventually they have to elect and pay a full time sheriff with a gun.

No. Each and every one needs to grow a pair. When the wolf is at your door: shoot it.

This is expensive so they have to amalgamate with other farmers to pay the sheriff's wages and build a jail.And so forth.

No. Grow a pair, arm yourself, deal with it in the moment.

How can you both stay home to protect your property and also go outside the home to work? You need to hire a wolf killer. There has to be division of labour and also specialist skills and professions.

Not everyone can grow a pair as some are women, some are old, some are children, some are exhausted after their hard work There have to be special men who are brave enough and muscular enough to keep order. In the olden days such men were the high status people who guarded the whole community and rose to be the commanders, chieftains, and eventually the kings.

[henry quirk]

How can you both stay home to protect your property and also go outside the home to work? You need to hire a wolf killer. There has to be division of labour and also specialist skills and professions.

Okay, when I mentioned the wolf at the door I was bein' figurative, but let's take it literally. Now, today, with some of the most comprehensive policin' the US has ever seen, homes are still robbed when no one's there. Folks are still murdered, raped, abused, and robbed. How can this be? Simply becuz cops don't sit on anyone's doorstep guardin' hearth & home and they don't, bodyguard-like, follow folks around. So: if the cop can't actually stop the robbery, the rape, the murder -- if the wolf killer can't kill the wolf -- what good is he?

Not everyone can grow a pair as some are women, some are old, some are children, some are exhausted after their hard work. There have to be special men who are brave enough and muscular enough to keep order. In the olden days such men were the high status people who guarded the whole community and rose to be the commanders, chieftains, and eventually the kings.

Hey, I got no problem at all with the weak, incapable, or cowardly doin' whatever it is, with their resources, they feel they need to do to feel safe. I have a rather large problem, though, with the weak, incapable, and cowardly tellin' me, becuz they can't or won't self-defend, I'm not supposed to or am not allowed to.

Which, of course, brings us right around to GUNS.

Wanna have some back & forth on that, B?

[Belinda]

How can you both stay home to protect your property and also go outside the home to work? You need to hire a wolf killer. There has to be division of labour and also specialist skills and professions.

Okay, when I mentioned the wolf at the door I was bein' figurative, but let's take it literally. Now, today, with some of the most comprehensive policin' the US has ever seen, homes are still robbed when no one's there. Folks are still murdered, raped, abused, and robbed. How can this be? Simply becuz cops don't sit on anyone's doorstep guardin' hearth & home and they don't, bodyguard-like, follow folks around. So: if the cop can't actually stop the robbery, the rape, the murder -- if the wolf killer can't kill the wolf -- what good is he?

Not everyone can grow a pair as some are women, some are old, some are children, some are exhausted after their hard work. There have to be special men who are brave enough and muscular enough to keep order. In the olden days such men were the high status people who guarded the whole community and rose to be the commanders, chieftains, and eventually the kings.

Hey, I got no problem at all with the weak, incapable, or cowardly doin' whatever it is, with their resources, they feel they need to do to feel safe. I have a rather large problem, though, with the weak, incapable, and cowardly tellin' me, becuz they can't or won't self-defend, I'm not supposed to or am not allowed to.

Which, of course, brings us right around to GUNS.

Wanna have some back & forth on that, B?

Adequate policing costs money, public money as the money is not going to leap out of the bank accounts of rich individuals. True, although numbers and training of policemen matter, what also matters is that police culture is oriented towards public service and not their institution or their moneyed masters.

The weak, incapable, or cowardly are bad for us all whatever our political persuasion.Unfortunately like the poor they are always with us. It is up to us voters to try to make sure the strong, the able, and the brave are the law makers and enforcers.

[henry quirk]

B,

Okay, since we're not gonna talk about GUNS or the fundamental ineffectiveness of police as protectors & servers, let's, instead, talk about...

Adequate policing

...what constitutes it?

It is up to us voters to try to make sure the strong, the able, and the brave are the law makers and enforcers.

And how do we do that? And, as you explain that, also explain the moral/ethical workaround that justifies the majority doin' to the minority what we say is unacceptable for one to do to another (theft, slavery, etc.).

In the American system, once all the jargon is stripped away, you find a simple principle: my life, liberty, and property is mine, your life, liberty, and property is yours. American governance (includin' policing) is supposed to be about the preservation of this simple notion. Democracy is supposed to be limited by, bounded by, this recognition of *natural rights. But democracy isn't bound: it's rampant, and this rampancy, among the electorate and the elected, has everything on the table for votin' on, includin' natural rights to life, liberty, and property.

We say it's wrong for Joe to take Stan's life, liberty, and property, but perfectly acceptable for the majority to take the minority's lives, liberties, and properties.


*and it matters not one whit if you, or anyone, believes in natural rights, or even if natural rights are real: the American system is founded on individual, inalienable natural rights...everything from the presumption of innocence to the freedom of association to the bill of rights and on and on is undergirded by a belief natural rights are real and paramount.

[popeye1945]

What the topic should be about is the mentality of much of the population, how the fuck does such a wretched condition affect something like half the population dragging the country into continued murderous chaos?

[Belinda]

B,

Okay, since we're not gonna talk about GUNS or the fundamental ineffectiveness of police as protectors & servers, let's, instead, talk about...

Adequate policing

...what constitutes it?

It is up to us voters to try to make sure the strong, the able, and the brave are the law makers and enforcers.

And how do we do that? And, as you explain that, also explain the moral/ethical workaround that justifies the majority doin' to the minority what we say is unacceptable for one to do to another (theft, slavery, etc.).

In the American system, once all the jargon is stripped away, you find a simple principle: my life, liberty, and property is mine, your life, liberty, and property is yours. American governance (includin' policing) is supposed to be about the preservation of this simple notion. Democracy is supposed to be limited by, bounded by, this recognition of *natural rights. But democracy isn't bound: it's rampant, and this rampancy, among the electorate and the elected, has everything on the table for votin' on, includin' natural rights to life, liberty, and property.

We say it's wrong for Joe to take Stan's life, liberty, and property, but perfectly acceptable for the majority to take the minority's lives, liberties, and properties.


*and it matters not one whit if you, or anyone, believes in natural rights, or even if natural rights are real: the American system is founded on individual, inalienable natural rights...everything from the presumption of innocence to the freedom of association to the bill of rights and on and on is undergirded by a belief natural rights are real and paramount.

Democracy is imperfect for the reasons you say. It's better than totalitarianism, theocracy, oligarchy, and communism.

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/com ... itarianism

[popeye1945]

Democracy is great except when linked to something like modern American imperialist capitalism and the obscene one percent of the wealthy elite. It may not be that we can change that but, the global environment is the price we'll all pay for not doing so. Capitalism at least in its present form has no moral ground. Appealing to our lowest human qualities greed, violence, and self-congratulations leading to fascist exceptionalism. Empires have never been known to be beneficient and a corporate empire has no soul. Democracy for and by the people is still a high ideal but it is not something the empire believes in.

[Belinda]

Democracy is great except when linked to something like modern American imperialist capitalism and the obscene one percent of the wealthy elite. It may not be that we can change that but, the global environment is the price we'll all pay for not doing so. Capitalism at least in its present form has no moral ground. Appealing to our lowest human qualities greed, violence, and self-congratulations leading to fascist exceptionalism. Empires have never been known to be beneficient and a corporate empire has no soul. Democracy for and by the people is still a high ideal but it is not something the empire believes in.

Democracy fails unless the electorate cherish it. There are always greedy people. Democracy ,with all its disadvantages, is the only safeguard within the rule of law. Democracy is failing in the US and this cradle of democracy is being ruled by its new aristocracy of the very rich.

[popeye1945]

[/quote] Democracy fails unless the electorate cherish it. There are always greedy people. Democracy ,with all its disadvantages, is the only safeguard within the rule of law. Democracy is failing in the US and this cradle of democracy is being ruled by its new aristocracy of the very rich.
[/quote]

Hi Belinda,

I am afraid that the electorate in the states is owned by the elite, it matters not to them who is president they decide what will be. Democracy is still a high ideal and much of the world aspire to it, but the American empire plows young democracies under if they wish to treat their own people better than the interest of American corporations. All over the world, America establishes these parasitic economic relationships with people to weak to withstand the outright or covert violence that will be visited upon them if they do not toe the line. America is not a kind master.

[Belinda]

Democracy fails unless the electorate cherish it. There are always greedy people. Democracy ,with all its disadvantages, is the only safeguard within the rule of law. Democracy is failing in the US and this cradle of democracy is being ruled by its new aristocracy of the very rich.
[/quote]

Hi Belinda,

I am afraid that the electorate in the states is owned by the elite, it matters not to them who is president they decide what will be. Democracy is still a high ideal and much of the world aspire to it, but the American empire plows young democracies under if they wish to treat their own people better than the interest of American corporations. All over the world, America establishes these parasitic economic relationships with people to weak to withstand the outright or covert violence that will be visited upon them if they do not toe the line. America is not a kind master.
[/quote]
Simple! These people who have hi-jacked America need to be named and shamed.

[popeye1945]

Hi Belinda,

[/quote] I am afraid that the electorate in the states is owned by the elite, it matters not to them who is president they decide what will be. Democracy is still a high ideal and much of the world aspire to it, but the American empire plows young democracies under if they wish to treat their own people better than the interest of American corporations. All over the world, America establishes these parasitic economic relationships with people to weak to withstand the outright or covert violence that will be visited upon them if they do not toe the line. America is not a kind master.
[/quote]
Simple! These people who have hi-jacked America need to be named and shamed.
[/quote]

Belinda,

Easier said than done, they cultivate the dumbing down of the population where needed. Most of the population is to busy scratching out a living to be very well informed about the activities of their own government, and perhaps a portion, does not want to know.

[Belinda]

Hi Belinda,

I am afraid that the electorate in the states is owned by the elite, it matters not to them who is president they decide what will be. Democracy is still a high ideal and much of the world aspire to it, but the American empire plows young democracies under if they wish to treat their own people better than the interest of American corporations. All over the world, America establishes these parasitic economic relationships with people to weak to withstand the outright or covert violence that will be visited upon them if they do not toe the line. America is not a kind master.
[/quote]
Simple! These people who have hi-jacked America need to be named and shamed.
[/quote]

Belinda,

Easier said than done, they cultivate the dumbing down of the population where needed. Most of the population is to busy scratching out a living to be very well informed about the activities of their own government, and perhaps a portion, does not want to know.
[/quote]

As long as people are free to speak their minds and to assemble peacefully I hope people will learn from each other, and all the more so as long as they allow artists to express truths.

[popeye1945]

Belinda.

Yes, hope springs eternal but I am afraid it won't save the American empire, all the signs of decay are there and the world will not mourn the loss.

[henry quirk]

Democracy is still a high ideal

No, it's not.

2392FCE4-1ACB-49EC-AF6F-CB043F2CDB9E.jpeg (81.59 KiB) Viewed 3043 times

[popeye1945]

The mind is the function of the brain and only half of it is encased within the cranium, the other half is the physical world, for the mind is subject and object together. Perhaps an obvious statement but I would wager that it is not obvious to all.