Capitalism and Schizophrenia

[info]

There is a school of thought that most of this post-modern stuff you can read backwards and achieve the same clarity.

Umm.. po-mo is experimental. Trying out new words, expressions, grammatical forms, etc. Reading it backward might be interesting?

"Here's to my sweet Satan.
The one who's little path would make me sad.
Who's power is Satan.
He would give to us 666.
There was a little tool shed where he made us suffer.
Sad Satan."

Once you have done the D & G, maybe you should try Adorno's Negative Dialectics?

I know this dude. At the moment I'm moving a bit away from leftist anti-exploitation philosophy and toward... "The Secret", "NVC", Krishnamurti, Thomas Merton, bell hooks (Divine Love), Alister Crawley... But I'll keep that in mind, Adorno looks cool in some lectures I watched.

[info]

I have an online issue of Plateaus, so I'm gonna print out that chapter on Becoming Intense. It looks intense. They say we can read Plateaus' chapters in any order.

Do 'they'?

Yeah, they write that in the intro. (They is D + G.)

What does an 'intense' text look like?

It's the feel, not the look... It feels like a drama.

No. But I might or I just might return to not having one, as was my usual want.

I like that rooster, I might start using it...

[chaz wyman]

There is a school of thought that most of this post-modern stuff you can read backwards and achieve the same clarity.

Umm.. po-mo is experimental. Trying out new words, expressions, grammatical forms, etc. Reading it backward might be interesting?

"Here's to my sweet Satan.
The one who's little path would make me sad.
Who's power is Satan.
He would give to us 666.
There was a little tool shed where he made us suffer.
Sad Satan."

Once you have done the D & G, maybe you should try Adorno's Negative Dialectics?

I know this dude. At the moment I'm moving a bit away from leftist anti-exploitation philosophy and toward... "The Secret", "NVC", Krishnamurti, Thomas Merton, bell hooks (Divine Love), Alister Crawley... But I'll keep that in mind, Adorno looks cool in some lectures I watched.

Did you mean A. Crowley? urghh!!

[info]

Thanks for your sympathy Grandfather. In NVC and also in C&S we don't really say like 'this is serious', 'this is grave'; because all needs are equal; there is no needs/wants distinction; just "desire".

Oh do 'we' say that - how gauche! and how ridiculously untrue.

Needs may be experienced with different intensities... "Degrees" as Satyr says. Anxiety is anxiety: emotional disphoria. C&S does not reconize objectives... it more like tossing and turning, trying to find a comfortable position. There is really only ever one "problem": anxiety. (Even pain -- it's our attitude of fear that makes pain unpleasant.)

[info]

Did you mean A. Crowley? urghh!!

Yeah. The dude who lived for times in Egypt, he wrote Thelma and Book of the Law. "Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law."

[Arising_uk]

Trinagles do not fit well into circles.

They fit perfectly well as they can be the chords of a circle.

Interesting question: Modelling was the method of learning for a very long time, and still is: at what point (sequentially or by date BC) did training and punishment begin?

The question you should ask is when did we stop hitting the students when they got it wrong?

I have a theory...

To sum it up quick, since we know that when others tringulate us it's a fear response, it's really ok if people express their jackal tics, to get them out, then we can move on without anxiety. We don't feel hurt ourselves because we understand they were motivated by esteem needs, needs for acceptance, communication, etc.

Do you understand that you are talking about yourself in the third person, "we". Its not a good sign of your mental health.

Triangulating something can be many things but in the main its to locate something. The motivation came be many things.

It's, "To quickly sum it up" or "To sum it up quickly". I think before you have a 'theory' you should return to your study of English.

That's called learning. It's required actually.

The confusion might be but contradiction shows misunderstanding.

Well obviously.

Then you need to address this.

Thanks for your sympathy Grandfather. In NVC and also in C&S we don't really say like 'this is serious', 'this is grave'; because all needs are equal; there is no needs/wants distinction; just "desire".

Then what do you 'desire'? And why should your 'desires' be met? And by whom?

[info]

Trinagles do not fit well into circles.

They fit perfectly well as they can be the chords of a circle.

Cording can never fill the area of a circle.

Interesting question: Modelling was the method of learning for a very long time, and still is: at what point (sequentially or by date BC) did training and punishment begin?

The question you should ask is when did we stop hitting the students when they got it wrong?

Once we got so good at mind games and students so passive we could manipulate them by threat alone.

Do you understand that you are talking about yourself in the third person, "we".

I mean those who share my view that Anglo society is taken over by neurosis in it's many forms.

Its not a good sign of your mental health.

Diagnosis.

Triangulating something can be many things but in the main its to locate something.

Ok.

The motivation came be many things.

The 1000 avatars of anxiety.

It's, "To quickly sum it up" or "To sum it up quickly". I think before you have a 'theory' you should return to your study of English.

A real short and qick introduction to these books is Foucault's Intro, inwhich he describes C&S as an introduction to the antifascist life. What does grammar nazi mean...?

That's called learning. It's required actually.

The confusion might be but contradiction shows misunderstanding.[/quote]
Everyone misunderstands. No shame in being imperfect.

Then you need to address this.

Need to?

Then what do you 'desire'? And why should your 'desires' be met? And by whom?

What? Communication, connectedness, aesthetics, excitement....
Why? Because I need them to be. And God wills it.
By whom? You, chaz, myself, R., K., J., etc...

[chaz wyman]

Trinagles do not fit well into circles.

They fit perfectly well as they can be the chords of a circle.

Cording can never fill the area of a circle.

This might not be true.
You may know that a polygon with an infinite number of sides amounts to a polygon with a single side which is a circle.
Its a sort of paradox.
We observe in CG that to draw a circle you actual do the same algorithm for a polygon but make the number of sides the same as the number of pixels +1, it takes to draw the perimeter. In a digital world a circle drawn this way is indistinguishable from a circle.

[Arising_uk]

Cording can never fill the area of a circle.

Once we got so good at mind games and students so passive we could manipulate them by threat alone.

Apparently failed in your case then. Who's this "we"? Is it the same as "they"?

I mean those who share my view that Anglo society is taken over by neurosis in it's many forms.

Then you'd have to explan why you neurotics are in a minority?

Diagnosis.

Fact.

The 1000 avatars of anxiety.

Or we just want to find something.

A real short and qick introduction to these books is Foucault's Intro, inwhich he describes C&S as an introduction to the antifascist life. What does grammar nazi mean...?

Don't like "u" either?

It means a child who abuses real sufferring and horror to cover their issues.

Everyone misunderstands. No shame in being imperfect.

None at all, but producing contradictions and defending them shows arrogance and ignorance at the same time.

Need to?

Yup!

What? Communication, connectedness, aesthetics, excitement....

Get out and meet people then.

Why? Because I need them to be. And God wills it.

I thought all needs were equal and hence don't exist?

How does 'god' communicate with you?

By whom? You, chaz, myself, R., K., J., etc...

What would this do for you?

Who are these initials?

[info]

Schizophrenia invents "a new lunar language", where it can "triangulate away" without touching the double binds that it resolves between.

Doesn't schizophrenia tend toward perfect frozen-in-anxiety catatonia? Ok, sure. Paranoids, delusionals, are still game playing non-mother fuckers.

Schizophrenia is art and creativity and spirituality living in a dead world. Van Goug born in the suburbs.

No one recognizes it and says oh you are alive, behold it is the Lord and the Lamb come, instead they move away and the poor victim blithers on in safe con-lang. This avoids scripts like punch-out, avoids NIGYSOGs, and obviously grounds caught NIGYSOBs into Rajgall-3-land. Rajgall-3 is a characature of connecting machines, reverse pantomime machines, every manner of payment machinery is in there.

How do you communicate with catatonics? How do you talk to paranoids? How do you talk to people with sever delusions of reference? How do you talk with delusionals who connect everything you say to an anxiety-reactive incomprehensible private language? By which I mean 'ordinary people'.

Shizophrenics need only one thing. Gratifying sex. Acceptance. Appreciation. (Remember, appreciation always requires an opportunity to help, someone needs to demonstrate a need, show vulnerability, and then the helper needs to perform, and then that is thanked.) Will any of these 3 things reasonably be met in a city? Nothing is impossible. However schizophrenics statistically by the law of large numbers do not get this. There is a simple reason why: in a city every value is created by it's repression. Nothing flows freely. Not sexuality, not recognition, definately not please and thank-you. No one can find happiness in a sadism based society. Schizophrenics are people unable to make clear requests due to anxiety and prohibition weighing. They least of all will be making persuasive requests!

Revolution is always the only relief from neuroticism and psychoticism. Neuroticism means rigidity and NIGYSOBing kick-back: nail biting, sarcasm, sadism, passive-aggression, rejection, narcissim, capitalism, toll roads, sexual harrassment, rape, heterosexuality, couples, households, depression, suicide, alliances, lose-lose and lose-win games, colonization, war, cigarette smoking, "How are you?", swearing, and so on: patriarchy: the FUCK-WORK-TRAIN system. Revolution means making observations and requests that undo the double bind.

How to become schizophrenic is well known. The cure to schizophrenia is revolutionary sexual expression, revolutionary inclusiveness, and combining revolutionary observation with command tense sentences with sincere expressions of gratitude.

[Arising_uk]

Schizophrenia invents "a new lunar language", where it can "triangulate away" without touching the double binds that it resolves between. ...

If you are saying that the schizophrenic has to use their reason to create explanations to explain their situation and that this language sounds like lunacy to others, I agree.

Doesn't schizophrenia tend toward perfect frozen-in-anxiety catatonia?

Maybe but are all schizophrenics anxious?

Ok, sure. Paranoids, delusionals, are still game playing non-mother fuckers. ...

Who are you talking to? Is this an example of 'lunar language'?

Schizophrenia is art and creativity and spirituality living in a dead world. Van Goug born in the suburbs.

Its Van Gogh. Not all schizophrenics are artistic nor creative nor spiritual. Schizophrenia strikes in the palaces and the slums.

No one recognizes it and says oh you are alive, behold it is the Lord and the Lamb come, instead they move away and the poor victim blithers on in safe con-lang. ...

That'll be because many aren't god-botherers but I thought they blithered in 'lunar language'?

This avoids scripts like punch-out, avoids NIGYSOGs, and obviously grounds caught NIGYSOBs into Rajgall-3-land. Rajgall-3 is a characature of connecting machines, reverse pantomime machines, every manner of payment machinery is in there.

More 'lunar language'?

How do you communicate with catatonics? - Theres an old story about the analyst who used to start at the catatonics ankle and pull out a hair then slowly work upwards, supposedly he never got to the knee until his hand was slapped away. Although I've always been fascinated at the 'link' between the catatonic and the deep-meditator, stick a saffron robe on one and could you tell the difference?
How do you talk to paranoids? - Carefully
How do you talk to people with sever delusions of reference? - I guess it would involve trying to stand on their reference points and getting into their logic to change them by putting them in a double-bind.
How do you talk with delusionals who connect everything you say to an anxiety-reactive incomprehensible private language? By which I mean 'ordinary people'. - How do you do it? But NLP would seem a good starting place.

Shizophrenics need only one thing. Gratifying sex. Acceptance. Appreciation. (Remember, appreciation always requires an opportunity to help, someone needs to demonstrate a need, show vulnerability, and then the helper needs to perform, and then that is thanked.)

Most people need these things but you said one thing? So you are saying if we brought all the schizophrenics a hooker they'd be 'cured?'

I thought you said that needs had no import?

Will any of these 3 things reasonably be met in a city? Nothing is impossible. However schizophrenics statistically by the law of large numbers do not get this. There is a simple reason why: in a city every value is created by it's repression. Nothing flows freely. Not sexuality, not recognition, definately not please and thank-you. No one can find happiness in a sadism based society. Schizophrenics are people unable to make clear requests due to anxiety and prohibition weighing. They least of all will be making persuasive requests!

Most people don't get these things. I agree, nothing is impossible. Lucky we don't live in a sadism-based society then. Although this does seem a generalization as many schizophrenics appear very persuasive and clear in their requests, its that they are unreasonable and unsatisfiable ones.

How would you solve the issue of schizophrenics being people unable to make clear requests?

Revolution is always the only relief from neuroticism and psychoticism. Neuroticism means rigidity and NIGYSOBing kick-back: nail biting, sarcasm, sadism, passive-aggression, rejection, narcissim, capitalism, toll roads, sexual harrassment, rape, heterosexuality, couples, households, depression, suicide, alliances, lose-lose and lose-win games, colonization, war, cigarette smoking, "How are you?", swearing, and so on: patriarchy: the FUCK-WORK-TRAIN system. Revolution means making observations and requests that undo the double bind.

So what are your observations and what are your requests? Come to that, what double-bind are you in?

But I agree that in a revolution the neurotics and psychotics can come to the fore.

Whats with the "toll roads"?

How to become schizophrenic is well known. The cure to schizophrenia is revolutionary sexual expression, revolutionary inclusiveness, and combining revolutionary observation with command tense sentences with sincere expressions of gratitude.

Please could you translate this lunar language into simple con-language as it may help us assist you in curing the schizophrenic.

What do you mean by "revolutionary sexual expression"? Rape, paedophilia?

What do you mean by "revolutionary inclusiveness"? Not having aslyums?

What do you mean by "revolutionary observation"? Actually paying attention to others without the mediation of ones judgements, beliefs and values?

What do you mean by "command tense sentences with sincere expressions of gratitude."? "Do that NOW!, as I'd be very grateful, thank you."?

Also do you mean the schizophrenic should be doing the above or we should be doing it to the schizophrenic?

[chaz wyman]

Schizophrenia invents "a new lunar language", where it can "triangulate away" without touching the double binds that it resolves between.

I have a very familial knowledge of Schizophrenia, and I can tell you that it is not an entity capable of creation, not even metaphorically.

Doesn't schizophrenia tend toward perfect frozen-in-anxiety catatonia? Ok, sure. Paranoids, delusionals, are still game playing non-mother fuckers.

If only that were true then a person who is Schizophrenic might have some peace. This is not, however the case, tragically.

Schizophrenia is art and creativity and spirituality living in a dead world. Van Goug born in the suburbs.

When my brother became schizophrenic, he lost the ability to express himself artistically. If any thing his art was part of the route to his schizophrenia.

No one recognizes it and says oh you are alive, behold it is the Lord and the Lamb come, instead they move away and the poor victim blithers on in safe con-lang. This avoids scripts like punch-out, avoids NIGYSOGs, and obviously grounds caught NIGYSOBs into Rajgall-3-land. Rajgall-3 is a characature of connecting machines, reverse pantomime machines, every manner of payment machinery is in there.

Oh um.

How do you communicate with catatonics? How do you talk to paranoids? How do you talk to people with sever delusions of reference? How do you talk with delusionals who connect everything you say to an anxiety-reactive incomprehensible private language? By which I mean 'ordinary people'.


Shizophrenics need only one thing. Gratifying sex. Acceptance. Appreciation.

When 'one thing' = 3 things then you are having cognitive problems. My brother seeks no sex. Maybe a bit of acceptance.


(Remember, appreciation always requires an opportunity to help, someone needs to demonstrate a need, show vulnerability, and then the helper needs to perform, and then that is thanked.) Will any of these 3 things reasonably be met in a city? Nothing is impossible. However schizophrenics statistically by the law of large numbers do not get this. There is a simple reason why: in a city every value is created by it's repression. Nothing flows freely. Not sexuality, not recognition, definately not please and thank-you. No one can find happiness in a sadism based society. Schizophrenics are people unable to make clear requests due to anxiety and prohibition weighing. They least of all will be making persuasive requests!

Revolution is always the only relief from neuroticism and psychoticism. Neuroticism means rigidity and NIGYSOBing kick-back: nail biting, sarcasm, sadism, passive-aggression, rejection, narcissim, capitalism, toll roads, sexual harrassment, rape, heterosexuality, couples, households, depression, suicide, alliances, lose-lose and lose-win games, colonization, war, cigarette smoking, "How are you?", swearing, and so on: patriarchy: the FUCK-WORK-TRAIN system. Revolution means making observations and requests that undo the double bind.

You like to talk and talk. Words without meaning. Text without aim.


How to become schizophrenic is well known. The cure to schizophrenia is revolutionary sexual expression, revolutionary inclusiveness, and combining revolutionary observation with command tense sentences with sincere expressions of gratitude.

My bullshit detector is in overdrive.

[info]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGojJ5tKX-4

[Arising_uk]

"Leftist Rants"!? Sounded like Democrats to me. The Yank has obviously not heard a leftist rant.

As for Mr Loughner, lmao! Reminded me of when I was having a drink with my philosophy tutor after a tutorial when an American, exchange student came in;
Student: "Its about my essay!"
Tutor: "Yes?"
Student: "You gave me a B!"
Tutor: "Yes?"
Student: "I need an A"
Tutor: *puzzled look* "Well, iyou got a B"
Student: "But I need an A! I wrote everything that you said and everything that everyone else has said!!"
Tutor: *flustered* "er! mmm... thats why you got a B"
Student: "But I need an A!!*
Tutor: "Then you should have written what you thought as well. If it was any good you may have got an A but as such you've got a B"
Student: Exit stage right - "I'm going to complain!!"
Tutor: "What just happened??"
Me: *pissing myself* - Poor dear was from Cambridge, he'd never heard the like.

Love the fact that Americans have police stations on campus!?

What was Loughner babbling on about?

Thats what you get when you can buy guns like candy.

[chaz wyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGojJ5tKX-4

Would you care to explain this?