Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:05 am
It's academic masturbation, and a desperate attempt to squeeze stuff we cannot understand into a theory that cannot be verified.
In this sense it is religious.
Nonstandard models of arithmetic are provable. They are as provable as 1+1=2, and from exactly the same theoretical context:
If there is enough support in the theory's language to prove that 1+1=2, then the theory is also able to prove the existence of nonstandard numbers. There is absolutely no mathematician who questions this.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:05 am
It's academic masturbation, and a desperate attempt to squeeze stuff we cannot understand into a theory that cannot be verified.
In this sense it is religious.
Nonstandard models of arithmetic are provable. They are as provable as 1+1=2, and from exactly the same theoretical context:
So much ignorance : so little time.
All "arithmetical" arguments are circular. Maths says nothing about the world, it is just a means by which we describe it.
This lack of basic philosophical understanding is at the heart of so many of these delusions.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:46 pm
Maths says nothing about the world, it is just a means by which we describe it.
Mathematics investigates abstract, Platonic worlds. The fact that you are not aware of that, simply shows that you are ignorant of what mathematics is.
The fact there exist downstream uses for its results, does not mean that these downstream uses are its purpose. You think that you know what mathematics is, but you obviously don't.
In mathematical logic, model theory is the study of the relationship between formal theories (a collection of sentences in a formal language expressing statements about a mathematical structure), and their models (those structures in which the statements of the theory hold).
Mathematical Platonism is the form of realism that suggests that mathematical entities are abstract, have no spatiotemporal or causal properties, and are eternal and unchanging. This is often claimed to be the view most people have of numbers.
Kurt Gödel's Platonism[9] postulates a special kind of mathematical intuition that lets us perceive mathematical objects directly.
There is probably no subdomain in mathematics more Platonic than model theory.
It is quite funny that you call mathematical Platonism "nonsense".
What do people conclude about you, if you do that?
They just think that you are not good at mathematics, and that you lack the intelligence to understand it. You probably do not have the special kind of mathematical intuition. Regardless, your remark will always be interpreted as a you-problem. People do not really choose to do liberal arts. It is not that they actually want to waste their time studying word salads. When they cannot do mathematics, they simply have to.
In mathematical logic, model theory is the study of the relationship between formal theories (a collection of sentences in a formal language expressing statements about a mathematical structure), and their models (those structures in which the statements of the theory hold).
Mathematical Platonism is the form of realism that suggests that mathematical entities are abstract, have no spatiotemporal or causal properties, and are eternal and unchanging. This is often claimed to be the view most people have of numbers.
Kurt Gödel's Platonism[9] postulates a special kind of mathematical intuition that lets us perceive mathematical objects directly.
There is probably no subdomain in mathematics more Platonic than model theory.
It is quite funny that you call mathematical Platonism "nonsense".
What do people conclude about you, if you do that?
They just think that you are not good at mathematics, and that you lack the intelligence to understand it. You probably do not have the special kind of mathematical intuition. Regardless, your remark will always be interpreted as a you-problem. People do not really choose to do liberal arts. It is not that they actually want to waste their time studying word salads. When they cannot do mathematics, they simply have to.
Mathemathical Platonists are psychologically weak and delusional, obviously. They so desperately want the abstract objects to have a "real" existence, even though it's so obvious that human abstract thinking is merely a form of thinking, not connected to any kind of abstract realm, as there is no such thing. (Though not as weak as people who run to Islam after not getting laid.)
Davis and Hersh have suggested in their 1999 book The Mathematical Experience that most mathematicians act as though they are Platonists, even though, if pressed to defend the position carefully, they may retreat to formalism.
You confuse what Gödel calls a special kind of mathematical intuition with delusion, simply because you do not have that ability. Some people happen to be talented while you are not. Instead of attacking other people for the fact that they are more gifted than you, why don't you try to find another way to be useful?
Davis and Hersh have suggested in their 1999 book The Mathematical Experience that most mathematicians act as though they are Platonists, even though, if pressed to defend the position carefully, they may retreat to formalism.
You confuse what Gödel calls a special kind of mathematical intuition with delusion, simply because you do not have that ability. Some people happen to be talented while you are not. Instead of attacking other people for the fact that they are more gifted than you, why don't you try to find another way to be useful?
You haven't read your quote, it says that most mathemathicians act like Platonists (which is completely understandable), but some of them retreat to formalism. But even if most mathemathicians are Platonists, then it happens to be the case that most mathemathicians are delusional. It's as simple as that.
And Platonism isn't needed for a "special kind of mathemathical intuition" heh.
Atla wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 4:12 pm
But even if most mathemathicians are Platonists, then it happens to be the case that most mathemathicians are delusional. It's as simple as that.
Look, I feel sorry for you. We all understand now that you do not have the ability to see what we can see. People's brains are different. Frankly, some brains are even outright defective. You probably already knew it in high school, when you kept racking up low grades on math, no matter how hard you tried. If you simply do not have it, then there is nothing that we can do about that.
Atla wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 4:12 pm
But even if most mathemathicians are Platonists, then it happens to be the case that most mathemathicians are delusional. It's as simple as that.
Look, I feel sorry for you. We all understand now that you do not have the ability to see what we can see. People's brains are different. Frankly, some brains are even outright defective. You probably already knew it in high school, when you kept racking up low grades on math, no matter how hard you tried. If you simply do not have it, then there is nothing that we can do about that.
Actually, hallucinating that abstract realms are "real" doesn't result in good grades, and not hallucinating doesn't result in bad grades.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:46 pm
Maths says nothing about the world, it is just a means by which we describe it.
Mathematics investigates abstract, Platonic worlds. The fact that you are not aware of that, simply shows that you are ignorant of what mathematics is.
The fact there exist downstream uses for its results, does not mean that these downstream uses are its purpose. You think that you know what mathematics is, but you obviously don't.
Atla wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 4:38 pm
Actually, hallucinating that abstract realms are "real" doesn't result in good grades, and not hallucinating doesn't result in bad grades.
Are you really trying to attack mathematics? Through the STEM fields, mathematics also controls technology and engineering.
In comparison, you control nothing of value or of importance.
You do not have the wherewithal for that kind of attack. You are up against an intellectually superior adversary with unassailable credibility. Do you really hope that you could ever win this?
You are just untalented and even mentally defective. That is why you cannot understand mathematics. Seriously, it is a you-problem.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:46 pm
Maths says nothing about the world, it is just a means by which we describe it.
Mathematics investigates abstract, Platonic worlds. The fact that you are not aware of that, simply shows that you are ignorant of what mathematics is.
The fact there exist downstream uses for its results, does not mean that these downstream uses are its purpose. You think that you know what mathematics is, but you obviously don't.
Fantasy
The ability to see the abstract Platonic worlds of mathematics requires a certain amount of talent:
Kurt Gödel's Platonism postulates a special kind of mathematical intuition that lets us perceive mathematical objects directly.
If you cannot perceive these abstract objects, it just means that you do not have that special ability. That is exactly what they test In high school.
Some people have it. Others don't.
We also don't expect everybody to become a star football player or a top musician. If you can't do it, then try something else instead.
godelian wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:18 pm
Mathematics investigates abstract, Platonic worlds. The fact that you are not aware of that, simply shows that you are ignorant of what mathematics is.
The fact there exist downstream uses for its results, does not mean that these downstream uses are its purpose. You think that you know what mathematics is, but you obviously don't.
Fantasy
The ability to see the abstract Platonic worlds of mathematics requires a certain amount of talent:
Story wrinting is talented for usre.
Thinking of JRR Tolkien
Atla wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 4:38 pm
Actually, hallucinating that abstract realms are "real" doesn't result in good grades, and not hallucinating doesn't result in bad grades.
Are you really trying to attack mathematics? Through the STEM fields, mathematics also controls technology and engineering.
In comparison, you control nothing of value or of importance.
You do not have the wherewithal for that kind of attack. You are up against an intellectually superior adversary with unassailable credibility. Do you really hope that you could ever win this?
You are just untalented and even mentally defective. That is why you cannot understand mathematics. Seriously, it is a you-problem.
I didn't attack mathemathics, just a philosophical interpretation of mathemathics. You must be mentally defective that you can't tell the difference , apparently you don't understand the first thing about maths.
Yeah we all saw the Platonist nonsense coming.