What is tolerance?

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Walker
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:03 pm
That’s quite tolerant of you to take on the karma of anothers’, any anothers’, laziness, lack of caring, and the ignorance that makes such attitudes possible, by doing and sharing research that gathers facts and providing rational explanations and correlations for those facts, which leads to another's understanding, which increases the possibility of compassion and caring awakening in others, according to their own rather unpredictable reasons likely based on personal experiences rather than sound reasoning.

Seen through the lens of politics, the issue of what books should be in government-school libraries is the matter of Federalism vs. Centralized Power.

The argument supporting Big Government was the sending of the National Guard into Arkansas back in the early days of public school racial integration, which are not quite as distant in the past as The Boston Tea Party.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see today’s current Leftist Biden Administration send The National Guard into Florida schools carrying bags of the books that parents in Florida don’t want on the government-school bookshelves, and then guarding these books against removal. Hyperbole? No. Hyperbole is obsolete.
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Harbal
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Harbal »

Walker wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:56 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:44 pm Why are you telling me this, what's it got to do with me? :?
It's a aid for your understanding, because you often express incomprehension, and you apparently have not grasped the gist of IC's patient explanations.

Once you understand, you may begin to care. See it as an exciting change in your attitude, full of future unknown possiblities brought about by understanding, and caring.
I have no idea why you are putting all this to me. IC made an allegation, and I asked him for details so that I could check the truth of it for myself. What, exactly, is your issue with that?
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Harbal
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:31 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:26 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:46 pm
And I'm uninterested in whether your opinion is identical to mine.
You publicly made an allegation,...
I've "alleged" nothing about you, and owe you no more. Sorry.
No, you don't actually owe me anything. It's just that I suspected you weren't being honest, and your response to my enquiries very much suggests that I was right to suspect it. I'm quite satisfied with the outcome, and so have no complaints.
Oh? So you believe in censorship of anything "false" or "misleading"? So you believe in information control.
When we come across what we suspect might be false or misleading information, we should challenge it. That is what I believe in.
It's probably good you're not in charge, then. :wink:
As far as you are concerned, it probably is. :wink:
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:34 pm Seen through the lens of politics, the issue of what books should be in government-school libraries is the matter of Federalism vs. Centralized Power.
It doesn't have to be. It can be seen as a simple matter of parental responsibility, or of community standards expressed as the willingness of parents to approve or sanction particular materials.

Here's where we depart from the Socialists. The Socialists have a slogan: "The personal is the political." It's complete nonsense, at total attempt at a power-grab, where people's personal business is linguistically reconstrued as somebody else's business. It's an absurd slogan that should never be accepted without challenge. It's always quoted manipulatively, handed out as if it were some kind of unquestionable truism. It's not.

Parents are the ones who create the child: it's their union that makes the very existence of that child possible. Immediately, nobody -- not even the father -- is as rightly-positioned to care for the child as the mother is. The father's important too, but in other ways and often somewhat later than the mother is. But the mother is highly dependent on her husband, because in the wake of birth she's physically depleted and totally rightly preoccupied with keeping a young human being alive. Likewise, the raising of the child is on them both: the burden of work, finances, discipline, instruction, safety, feeding, and so on are totally theirs.

When does the State become important at all? When does the political matter? Only when the child is of an age to become a political entity, which in a democracy, is when he/she can vote. Until then, the State's role is restricted to not interfering with whatever the parents need to do their job of raising the children they created. And a public schooling system is entirely optional, and at the choice of the parents. Teachers have absolutely no legitimate right to usurp the authority of parents in raising their children. Law inforcement might intervene in explicitly abusive or neglectful situations, of course; but teachers are no more than paid child-caretakers, whose only authority is derived from the agreement of the parents -- not the authority of the State.

So why is child care a "political" issue? Only if we've agreed to make it one, and then, only derivatively, by the consent of the parents of the child. A parent can home school a child if they are willing to do so, or form a community child-care plan; they do not owe the State the surrender of their children, and the State has no legitimate claim to taking over from the parents, unless the parental behavior in question is actually criminal -- and I don't mean by just any "criminality" definition the Left can generate: I mean things that stand to severely deprive, seriously injure or kill the child.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:31 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:26 pm
You publicly made an allegation,...
I've "alleged" nothing about you, and owe you no more. Sorry.
No, you don't actually owe me anything. It's just that I suspected you weren't being honest,..
That was your uncharitable suspicion, then. And the truth is, if you cared, you'd have found out you were wrong already. That you don't bother tells me all I need to know: you're not after the truth, you're after a frivolous fight about whether or not my standards are the same as yours.

Boring.

I'll save you the time: they're likely not. But the fact that you and I have standards, and will not "tolerate" just anything, means we're not opening the door to a brainless or immoral "omni-tolerance."
Alexiev
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Alexiev »

godelian wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:52 am
Alexiev wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:04 am I was in India and Thailand this year. But I also know some things I have not witnessed personally. Reading helps.
Child support is a western invention that does not get enforced anywhere else in the world. You won't find it in Africa, SE Asia, the Middle East. In fact, it did not exist in the West before 20th century either. Same for division of the husband's assets and alimony, i.e. division of his future income.

That is why you can trivially avoid these things by moving outside the West.

If the government incentivizes the wife to leave the marriage with cash and prizes, then this is obviously what she will sooner or later do. Anybody with even just half a brain can see that this practice will end up destroying the nuclear family and therefore society itself.

On the one hand, I am perfectly fine for the West to keep on doing that. It is obviously their problem and no longer mine. However, on the other hand, I do not want the West to export this practice to SE Asia, because now I live here. Not every society in the world needs to be destroyed!
Some Westerners think parents SHOULD support their own children. You disagree. The Westerners are right, and you are wrong.
Alexiev
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Alexiev »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:42 am
Alexiev wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:01 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:54 am
What is ironic is that Zinn book is the "opposiing view" to the bullshit the deep state are peddling.
It remains a fact that the cause of the Boston Tea Party was that the British were selling TAX FREE tea.
Yes, I know. Just like the "facts" Trump supporters accept. You believe only those "facts" which conform to your prejudices. Conspiracy theorists and Trump supporters do the same, The vast majority of historians disagree.
You have characterised the American public. From where I stand I do not give a shit about Trump/Biden, but what I see is a collection of idiots.

Americans were objecting to the British ships bringing in cheap tea, because AMericans were being undercut.
It is very funny indeed that most Americans are clueless about this simple indisputable historical fact.
You are just making a monkey out of yourself.
The Brits were bringing in cheap tea to bail out the East India Company, which was in deep financial trouble. Warehouses full of tea owned by the Colonial rulers of India (the East India Company) were rotting in England. The tax issues were complicated, but (if any lurkers are still interested, we know Sculptor doesn't care about the facts) you can read about it here:

https://www.history.com/topics/american ... -tea-party
Walker
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:52 pm
:thumbsup:

I read the Federal Government has sent a huge number of illegals into Florida, ten times the numbers sent into other states, numbers that overall are likely under represented given the open border policy of the federal government during this administration.

Florida is politically red, as political colors go. DeSantis changed the politics from deep blue to bright red in one term, and that makes him a political genius, and target. The purpose of sending so many illegals into Florida is obviously redistricting, since respresentation is assigned according to population and not number of citizens. The strategy is to turn Florida back to blue, and cry the blues.

Obviously, the Left longs for the days of plantations, when a slave owner could count each of his slaves as a vote for Democrats ... however the three-fiths rule dampened some of that voting corruption, and thus dampened some of the Slave Owner's power, but not quite enough to prevent about three quarters of a million Americans (mostly European) to lose their lives in defeating the ancient principle and practice of slavery, a defeat that Biden and his minions are working hard to overcome ... as any Master American Historian worth his degree will attest.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Sculptor »

Walker wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:06 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:42 am Americans were objecting to the British ships bringing in cheap tea ...
Talk about living in the past ... :roll:
The truth is the truth. What is revealing is that you thought it was because the king put a tax on tea.
History does not want to tell little children like you the truth.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Sculptor »

Alexiev wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:42 am
Alexiev wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:01 am

Yes, I know. Just like the "facts" Trump supporters accept. You believe only those "facts" which conform to your prejudices. Conspiracy theorists and Trump supporters do the same, The vast majority of historians disagree.
You have characterised the American public. From where I stand I do not give a shit about Trump/Biden, but what I see is a collection of idiots.

Americans were objecting to the British ships bringing in cheap tea, because AMericans were being undercut.
It is very funny indeed that most Americans are clueless about this simple indisputable historical fact.
You are just making a monkey out of yourself.
The Brits were bringing in cheap tea to bail out the East India Company, which was in deep financial trouble. Warehouses full of tea owned by the Colonial rulers of India (the East India Company) were rotting in England. The tax issues were complicated, but (if any lurkers are still interested, we know Sculptor doesn't care about the facts) you can read about it here:

https://www.history.com/topics/american ... -tea-party
And that is the first time you know the truth

No need to thank me, You are welcome.

Now lets talk about Trumps indictments, or are you going to persist with the fiction that they are all made up nonsense???
:D :D :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictmen ... nald_Trump
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Harbal
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:55 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:31 pm
I've "alleged" nothing about you, and owe you no more. Sorry.
No, you don't actually owe me anything. It's just that I suspected you weren't being honest,..
That was your uncharitable suspicion, then. And the truth is, if you cared, you'd have found out you were wrong already.
But you blocked my attempts to find out. After you described some books as "perverted", I asked you which books you were referring to, so that I could check for myself, but you just suggested I watch some videos instead of giving me the information I asked for. You repeatedly refused to tell me the names of the books that you had found to be "perverted", thus making it impossible for me to ascertain the truth of your claim.
That you don't bother tells me all I need to know: you're not after the truth, you're after a frivolous fight about whether or not my standards are the same as yours.
But I would have bothered if you had given me the information I needed, but you repeatedly refused to give it to me, and that tells me all I need to know, along with anyone else who has been following this.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:14 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:55 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:50 pm
No, you don't actually owe me anything. It's just that I suspected you weren't being honest,..
That was your uncharitable suspicion, then. And the truth is, if you cared, you'd have found out you were wrong already.
But you blocked my attempts to find out.
I told you where to look. If you think I'm going to debate the particulars of salacious content with you, I'm guess you have no idea to whom you're speaking. You'll wait a long time for that kind of discussion.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Harbal wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 12:33 am You said: " We're talking about the "educators," particularly in Florida, who have been grooming children in public schools with perverted books", those were your words, and all I am asking is that you take responsibility for them. In order to be able to make such a claim about books, you surely know which books you are referring to, and exactly what they contain, so I don't understand why you will not name them. What's the problem?
The programs which teach sex stuff to very little children are all aimed at making sure the children know to speak up if an adult is doing something wrong with them. That's the actual stuff that they are complaining about, the literature that is there to keep priests hands out of little boys trousers.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by Immanuel Can »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:24 pm The programs which teach sex stuff to very little children are all aimed at making sure the children know to speak up if an adult is doing something wrong with them.
Better look up some of those videos. You couldn't be more wrong.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is tolerance?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

godelian wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 1:49 pm The West is tolerant only to views that align with its own, which are in turn essentially depraved. For example, if you are a gender-fluid mostly homosexual transgender drug addict who lives off prostitution by giving sloppy blowjobs in dark back alleys, your views will not just be tolerated, they will even be celebrated.
Aren't you basically just a sex tourist wandering East Asia renting temporary wives?
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