Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Dubious wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 6:06 pm I wonder how many believe that when your trust account on the site seems so exceptionally low!
Cada uno tiene el derecho a su opinion.
I also wonder how many actually give a damn about what you say...or for that matter what I or anyone says! I realize you don't like to acknowledge it, but let's face it; it's all null and void in the end, not unlike all the metaphysical garbage you keep reading believing thereby the world can be reformed. You're the stand-up definition of puerile.
In my view, though I accept and understand your opposition to the core of my ideas and in what they reside, I think you could do better than merely spouting negatives -- bickering I call it. But as they say "You do you".

Whether one person, a hundred or a million give a damn (about what I say) is of little, but not no, importance to me.

What I do pay attention to is a movement among people with concerns like mine who, whether it will achieve anything or not, feel the need to live through their values.

You have a nihilistic attitude which, I submit, is the outcome and consequence of your cherished ideological tenets. Your ideological tenets will determine that futility. But in no sense do I see what I am doing, or what I conceive as being relevant and important to do, as futile. That there is evidence of the difference in our perspectives.
it's all null and void in the end
An extremely mistaken statement.
Dubious
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

Post by Dubious »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 7:02 pmI think you could do better than merely spouting negatives -- bickering I call it. But as they say "You do you".
What you call bickering, I call negating stupid ideas. Here's one: you claim you would vote for Trump as a chaos agent; isn't there enough of it in the world already that you would add to it without the least idea of what those ramifications would be...that being just one misfit item in your value diary.

Not least, you consistently proclaim the values and meaning of Western Civilization and yet intend to vote for a half literate jerk who has no idea what this concept even implies! As a true disclosure of contradiction, among other things, it proves you have a head casket missing and that your value agenda is more akin to distortion than revelation. In that regard, the definition of nihilism suits you better than me.
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 7:02 pmWhat I do pay attention to is a movement among people with concerns like mine who, whether it will achieve anything or not, feel the need to live through their values.
Let them, with the acknowledgement that it's their values which are meaningful only to them. Why do those who always so vehemently attest to some value always believe it's appropriate for everyone and consequently should not really be disputed, even less negated lest one gets labelled as nihilistic?
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 7:02 pmYou have a nihilistic attitude which, I submit, is the outcome and consequence of your cherished ideological tenets.
...only as far as your values are concerned, which I find near to purposeless in having no merit, not by any single anomaly but a host of them. Another brain fart of yours: if I have cherished tenets of whatever ilk, how can I be nihilistic, since cherished beliefs require values of some kind for better or worse to infringe the vacuum of nihilism. To highlight your inability to properly think or analyze, nihilism incorporates a number of meanings, not only the kind you label me with. There's at least one definitely applicable to you in which your vaunted profundity defaults to absurdity.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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if I have cherished tenets of whatever ilk, how can I be nihilistic, since cherished beliefs require values of some kind for better or worse to infringe the vacuum of nihilism.
You’re acting dense.

I don’t have an answer nor do I intend to research it. Yet nihilistic by definition you seem to be. Certainly you are not absolutely nihilistic and, obviously, you appear in a gradient. But you’re right: sheer nihilism would result in a total vacuum.

A chaos agent, in America, could very well be a needed, and ultimately positive thing. But this thread, and its content, is not about the American presidential election.
Why do those who always so vehemently attest to some value always believe it's appropriate for everyone and consequently should not really be disputed, even less negated lest one gets labelled as nihilistic?
That is a two-part question. People assert their values when they educate their children. It is there that •the game• of life becomes serious. That is where value-questions are settled. So the values that I work to define are those that I think through deeply.

Once the values are defined, one is then duty-bound to live by them and defend them. Toleration of others is certainly to be practiced. We live in Liberalism. And yet there is a point where one (so to speak) must put his foot down. It’s just the way things are m’boy.

In our culture today these sorts of struggles are playing out before our eyes.

I would say your nihilistic tendencies seem more a •mood• than anything of real substance. But I wouldn’t negate the power of substanceless negation — if that makes sense. Switch out •nihilism• for •negation•.

To me, I interpret you as a sort of psychological complex. A knot that winds tighter. You do not really have any positive ideas, but tons of negative ones.

Again: You do you.
Dubious
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

Post by Dubious »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 12:56 am
Again: You do you.
...a really stupid expression which means nothing, showing that you don't know what to say except know-it-all distortions by which you have always presumed to know me and others, and the cloned views you get from reading without thinking. That much is obvious.
Age
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

Post by Age »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 1:10 pm
AJ wrote: All you do though is to mimic popular tropes. Nothing more. What does “word of God” mean? It really means metaphysical order.
Age wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 1:46 amWhat do you mean by, 'really means'?

And, what do you mean by, 'metaphysical order'?

If you do not explain these, then do you, really, understand them?
Yes, Age, I believe that I understand what I am talking about within certainly, the parameters of any personal limitations. Simultaneously I perceive that many that I interchange with here on this forum seem to me to lack an understanding of what *metaphysical* refers to -- in the sense of its realness but its absolute non-tangibility.

The term Word of God is a trope in its most important and relevant sense:
trope (trōp)
n.
1. A figure of speech using words in nonliteral ways, such as a metaphor.
2. A word or phrase interpolated as an embellishment in the sung parts of certain medieval liturgies.
In theological conceptualization -- and I definitely subscribe to the realness, validity, existence and power of defined theological concepts -- the notion of Word of God really means, that is ultimately refers to, a metaphysical idea, or notion, or if you wish command, that enters our world exclusively through man. That is, only man being himself a *metaphysical creature* has the capability of receiving the types of ideas I am referring to. But to say *idea* is not enough though it will have to do for the present.

The idea of Word of God, then, has to do with a perceived and realized sense about *order* (in Sanskrit there is a similar concept Ṛta (/ɹ̩t̪ɐ/; Sanskrit ऋत ṛta "order, rule; truth; logos") which, coming to man from unseen reality, is then received by man and imposed, projected, installed, used as a design, for works in our concrete, tangible world.
So, I ask two questions only, but, once again, the actual questions I asked are completely and utterly ignored.

This one here has gone on to talk about something that I never asked about.
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 1:10 pm The entire concept of a divinity, and a divine order, and the imposition of that order, and the end and purpose of such order ("order, rule; truth; logos") is what the Church attempts to build with, or in relation to, in this our world. One can speak of this in two distinct ways: 1) In the language of the faithful referring to a God who makes commands and oversees the created world, and 2) in a stricter philosophical sense as Logos: an order of ideas that arose simultaneously with the creation. So just as there are atoms and energies and all that is physical that we can sense and measure with our own senses and with sense-extensions (machines) so too everything that we refer to as *idea*, and certainly the higher realms of ideas containing far broader imperatives (design, plan, undertaking, mission) -- all of this, through non-tangible and non-locatable -- all of this is part-and-parcel of our *world*. That is, the manifest reality where we live and operate.

My interest, my focus, is in understanding the innermost dimensions of what we call The Christian Revelation. And my interest is in reading and understanding the meaning encapsulated within these theological definitions. Meaning is also extremely metaphysical. When we think about how something, anything, has a *meaning* that shows itself or reveals itself to an *intuitive awareness*. This is the sense of the (rather loaded and complex) word intellectus.

My present view goes like this: Most who write on this forum, and most of us as extrusions onto the plains of Modernity, have substantially lost the capacity to grasp ideas -- impetus, inspiration, meaning -- at the metaphysical level. The conceptual pathway to this understanding has been blocked, or sometimes severed, but in any case there is enormous static and interference which makes conception next to impossible.

So all that I am writing about here is REJECTED with no further sense of need to understand. This is, if I may be so bold, a modern problem. It is a *problem* that has deeply infected and affected a) our own selves, b) our cultural world, c) our intellectual world.

I define myself as 1) a student of this problem of severing away and turning away, and 2) as a student of the processes by which one returns to the respect, recognition, valuation, elevation and protection of a) the conceptual pathway through philosophical means (to order, rule; truth; logos"0 , and b) of those entities and institutions existing in our world that are the repositories of that responsibility.

Do you suppose that I imagine I am making headway here? That is, creating arguments or presentations that convince? In fact this is not my object! I have noticed that *really hard-headed people* and those committed to a range of modern conceptual and ideological positions cannot *hear* what I am writing about. Because of the fact that the essences of all that matter for us is, when you think it through, comes to us through invisibilities. All that is non-tangible. All that is metaphysical. And what is therefore supernatural in the theological sense.

You could -- one could -- for example despise Christianity and Catholicism with true virulence if one were inclined to that. There are many who exist within that mood. I do not recommend it. I recommend the complete opposite approach. A reevaluation, a reencounter. Even to suggest such a thing (here) will draw a rather violent species of ire from many. The idea is simply inconceivable (in a literal sense).

Since I am aware that nothing I can say convinces or moves anyone (by and large I mean) the reason I bother with my descriptions is to present the case to myself. Or as I say *for my own benefit*. That is all I can do: write what I think and strictly for my own purposes. It is a question of solidifying and concretizing what I believe are the most important things about life and being alive (having existence here in a human frame).
Well this explains why you will not just stay focused on the actual questions I posed, and ask you.

you are more concerned about presenting a case to you, only.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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Age wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 1:39 amyou are more concerned about presenting a case to you, only.
If you can’t handle the •Bonus Package• DM me and let me know which depth and length option you prefer.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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Dubious wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 1:19 am ...a really stupid expression which means nothing
That’s not quite so. Popular phrases like that, though asinine, actually say more than you’d think. It implies grasping that we “do” ourselves like a performance 🎭 or like a •rehearsal• [“a detailed enumeration or repetition”]

Could you — as an exercise I mean — deliberately not-do you? Think about it! You’d be you technically but offering an interesting performance with surprising and lively twists. Or perhaps bust out into song. Can you hold a tune?!

Just thinking out-loud, Dubes. You do you just as you feel you must. I back you 100% …
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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General Announcement

I’d been operating at Level 5.5 for about a year. Dipping one week, rising a bit in another. But this AM I had a mystic visitation and (I am holding back tears of gratitude and joy) I’ve been raised up to Level 7.2!

Semper prorsum!
promethean75
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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Oh man level 7.2 is a bitch. I was stuck at it for like thirteen minutes.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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See, some here are simply incredibly advanced. Whereas I, hindered at every turn and suffering innumerable humiliating setbacks, have to struggle like the proverbial devil just to advance a mere percentile. Oh yes, I’ve been tempted to give up time and again ….

But you — you denizens! — inspire me to keep groping through my self-created, self-maintained obscurity so that I may simply come slightly more closer to your elevated height.
Atla
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 1:10 pm My interest, my focus, is in understanding the innermost dimensions of what we call The Christian Revelation. And my interest is in reading and understanding the meaning encapsulated within these theological definitions. Meaning is also extremely metaphysical. When we think about how something, anything, has a *meaning* that shows itself or reveals itself to an *intuitive awareness*. This is the sense of the (rather loaded and complex) word intellectus.

My present view goes like this: Most who write on this forum, and most of us as extrusions onto the plains of Modernity, have substantially lost the capacity to grasp ideas -- impetus, inspiration, meaning -- at the metaphysical level. The conceptual pathway to this understanding has been blocked, or sometimes severed, but in any case there is enormous static and interference which makes conception next to impossible.

So all that I am writing about here is REJECTED with no further sense of need to understand. This is, if I may be so bold, a modern problem. It is a *problem* that has deeply infected and affected a) our own selves, b) our cultural world, c) our intellectual world.

I define myself as 1) a student of this problem of severing away and turning away, and 2) as a student of the processes by which one returns to the respect, recognition, valuation, elevation and protection of a) the conceptual pathway through philosophical means (to order, rule; truth; logos"0 , and b) of those entities and institutions existing in our world that are the repositories of that responsibility.

Do you suppose that I imagine I am making headway here? That is, creating arguments or presentations that convince? In fact this is not my object! I have noticed that *really hard-headed people* and those committed to a range of modern conceptual and ideological positions cannot *hear* what I am writing about. Because of the fact that the essences of all that matter for us is, when you think it through, comes to us through invisibilities. All that is non-tangible. All that is metaphysical. And what is therefore supernatural in the theological sense.
Kinda pointless imo to try to make a mostly non-Christian audience unblock/unsever their connection to Christian metaphysics - a metaphysics they either never had to begin with, or rejected..
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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Atla wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 5:41 pm Kinda pointless imo to try to make a mostly non-Christian audience unblock/unsever their connection to Christian metaphysics - a metaphysics they either never had to begin with, or rejected.
What we call “the Christian metaphysics” would need to be better understood. The core idea though is universal: to discern a •will• that is supernatural to natural life and naturalism and recognize it as a totalizing authority. That understanding comes or is constructed fundamentally through a process of education.

If you define •no authority•, no obligation, of any sort nor on the specific metaphysical level, then you have transferred Liberal ideology to the absolute sphere. In truth this is what has happened.

While I agree that everything I write is utterly pointless for those (for example such as Harbal who is really the best example that could ever be offered by god or man) there is a dim possibility that some part of it could be received by some other.

But none of that matters. What I am getting from this is extraordinary.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

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[One goal I have is to master Ebonics if only to be able to exchange brilliancies more fluidly with Promethean. It’s fucking harder than you’d imagine!]
Dubious
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

Post by Dubious »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 12:10 pm
Dubious wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 1:19 am ...a really stupid expression which means nothing
Could you — as an exercise I mean — deliberately not-do you?[/b] Think about it! You’d be you technically but offering an interesting performance with surprising and lively twists. Or perhaps bust out into song. Can you hold a tune?!
Absolutely! I can un-do me each time I revise or reject something I once held dear...which has happened a few times. In effect, by undoing, I am redoing until the next revision. Of course, there are things I could never un-do nor wish for it to ever happen.

For example this song among a few others, will be with me until the day I croak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK8-Zg-8JYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwLJD18InJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gt_4Fxz-b4
Atla
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Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

Post by Atla »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 6:26 pm
Atla wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 5:41 pm Kinda pointless imo to try to make a mostly non-Christian audience unblock/unsever their connection to Christian metaphysics - a metaphysics they either never had to begin with, or rejected.
What we call “the Christian metaphysics” would need to be better understood. The core idea though is universal: to discern a •will• that is supernatural to natural life and naturalism and recognize it as a totalizing authority. That understanding comes or is constructed fundamentally through a process of education.

If you define •no authority•, no obligation, of any sort nor on the specific metaphysical level, then you have transferred Liberal ideology to the absolute sphere. In truth this is what has happened.

While I agree that everything I write is utterly pointless for those (for example such as Harbal who is really the best example that could ever be offered by god or man) there is a dim possibility that some part of it could be received by some other.

But none of that matters. What I am getting from this is extraordinary.
The West has been moving away from religion and God (this supernatural "will") for a long time, why would it just turn around now?
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