thoughts on....

[Peter Kropotkin]

I leave the title rather vague as I don't actually know what I
am going to write about... anyway, today is about education...

I have referred to education as being one of the most important
needs of human beings...along with food and water and shelter.....
for we cannot answer the proverbial questions of existence without some
education... the Kantian questions, '''What am I to do?" ''What can I know?"
''What should I believe in?"

as a dad, I can tell you that education begins at a child's birth....
and what is educated into the mind and heart of a child is the
assumptions of a state/society... we, in our daily talks and discussions
with others, we detail what is important to us...our assumptions
become, in a very real sense, the very air in which a newborn lives in...
and children, from day one, are sponges... and that ever single action
done to a child is recalled, remembered by both the mind and the body...
to be punched in the arm, is to leave a mark, a recollection of that punch
to the body... and the body remembers...till its dying day....
I recall that when I was a boy, I was completely and totally without fear...
until I was 6, and I jumped off a high diving board... I was trying to do a
back flip...and I missed and landed right on my back... I can recall that
pain of 60 years ago...and that recollection of the pain, later lead me
to having a fear of heights...did I overcome my fear of heights? to a certain
extent.. but never totally... it is something that my mind and body still
recalls... the events of our lives, no matter how old we get, still
linger on in our minds, in our hearts and in our bodies...

and the education we are filled with, good and bad, lingers on in our
minds and heart...and for most of us, our education is really just
indoctrinations into the values and beliefs of our world, state and society.....
there is a god, that America is the greatest nation on Earth, that the
poor are to looked down at.... all our bigotries and prejudice and hatred
are to be found in the indoctrinations of our youth.. in the education
we receive at the hands of our family... my own education/indoctrinations,
were of the moderate kind... of an upper class, Midwestern family,
with its question of duty, where does our duty lie to? god and America
although not necessarily in that order.... and in my teens and twenties,
I engaged with what is referred to as, overcoming... where I examined my
values and beliefs, and decided, as best I could, which values and beliefs
are actually my beliefs and values, and which values/beliefs were actually
the indoctrinations of the state, society and yes, the family....
as much as possible, I tried to decipher my own values, my own
beliefs, and not the indoctrinations of my childhood... the indoctrinations
that still leave a mark on my soul, even today, after 60 plus years...

and those indoctrinations of our childhood still leave a mark on our soul,
our bodies, our minds, unless we take the time to overcome them by
examining our every values, to every principle we hold to be true....

we are, as children educated/indoctrinated, and then we need to spend years
overcoming those indoctrinations... to overcome what those social and political
values that were indoctrinated into us....for as I mentioned, even indoctrinations
implanted into us as children, are still within our soul, the brain and the body.....
and the question becomes, which values and beliefs do we think about
when dealing with the questions of existence... do we think about our
childhood indoctrinations in dealing with adult questions or are we
thinking about those questions based on our own reevaluations of values
that is so much a part of being a teenager and a young adult.......

one of the problems of our modern day is in thinking about education in
terms of our going to school and getting a diploma and getting our job
training to get a job... for that is essentially the point of schooling
and education these days, as job training to become a ''productive member
of society'' I hold that education is not about job training, but about something
far more valuable... the point of education is to reevaluated our
childhood indoctrinations and ''become who you are'' by us
becoming into our real values, our real beliefs... If I hold there is a god, it is not
because of my childhood education/indoctrinations, but by an honest
evaluation of the value and beliefs I hold.. that is the point of education...

to work out what we really believe in and value, not what the state wants
us to value or believe in, but in what we actually do hold to be true....
that is the real value of our education.. and if education is done to
reinforce our indoctrinations, as the right wing aspires to, than
education has no value in America today....

the point of education is not to train us to become workers, producers
and consumers, but to help us understand what we actually value
and believe in.....to become who we are, really are....

Kropotkin

[Harbal]

I leave the title rather vague as I don't actually know what I
am going to write about... anyway, today is about education...

So you managed to find out what it's about in the nick of time, just before you started writing. That was a close call, Kropotkin; you sure like to sail close to the wind.

[Peter Kropotkin]

now we move on...but only marginally.....

the next topic is commitment..... we hold to a commitment to
to ideas and value and beliefs... we see existence through our values
and beliefs... as some around here hold to their values and commitment
in regard to whatever topic is being discussed.... for example, when
asked, what is a human being? they will speak of god or of ''one mind''
or of some here who see existence through the lens of conservativism
or who see existence through the lens of liberalism...

but the real questions comes down to our values and beliefs...
as noted above, how are we to understand our values and beliefs....
are they really our values and beliefs or, or are they the values
and beliefs indoctrinated into us? and this question drives the
the question of commitment.... what exactly are we committing to?
with the values and beliefs that were indoctrinated into us, or
the values and beliefs that we actually hold, as we have discovered
by our overcoming?

having the courage of our values is to be applauded... but let us
make sure they are our values, not the indoctrination values of childhood....

if we, as we should, engage in ''our values as a way of life'' as the
Christian should engage in Christian values as a ''way of life",
to make that commitment to living with, by and of Christian values....
and the pacifist engages in their commitment to non-violence,
and engages in peace.. as a lifelong commitment... as a ''way of life''

and if one decides to engage in one ism or another, as a 'way of life'',
in making a commitment, as a ''way of life"" we should be clear, very
clear that the values and beliefs we engage with, commit to,
are our values, our beliefs, our faith... not with the values of our
childhood indoctrinations....

what I would like to see, is people making a commitment to the values
and beliefs that they hold to be true.. to make those values, values
worth living in, as a '''way of life''....
that is the true way to make a commitment to a ''way of life'',
to honoring values and beliefs that we hold dear and true, as
we have turned into "'becoming who we are''...which is the values
and beliefs that we really hold and honor... not the indoctrination values
and beliefs but in the hard-won values of overcoming....

make a commitment.. honor it and live by it... but come to
it honestly... by engaging in a reevaluation of values...
to see what values/beliefs are actually your values/beliefs...
and then commit to those values, as a ''way of life'"

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

I leave the title rather vague as I don't actually know what I
am going to write about... anyway, today is about education...

So you managed to find out what it's about in the nick of time, just before you started writing. That was a close call, Kropotkin; you sure like to sail close to the wind.

K: I quite often only have a thought or a random line in my head before I
start writing... and as I write, things come to mind and I write some more...
quite often, I wind up in a completely different place then where I started...
I know that.... but, I think, no one might not think so, but I think
I work better this way... my thoughts clarify themselves as I write...
and I am led to a truth that was not so apparent when I started to write.....
but that also leads me to avoid any ideology writing... I don't write
with a specific place I am going to.. my endings are as much a surprise
to me, as they are to you... but I avoid my isms and values in doing so...
I don't take my liberalism as my alpha or omega... and that all my writings must
engage in liberalism...they don't... but that also leads other to accuse me
of not being consistent... that I often contradict myself.. and so what?
what do I care if I contradict myself? I am not engage in finding answers,
I am engaged with finding questions and in seeking out questions, who cares
if one is inconsistent.. I don't...

or another way of saying that, I am engaged in problem solving..
seeking out what are the modern day problems and offering up
possible solutions... but possible solutions are not set answers, just
possible answers....take it, don't take.. doesn't matter to me....
as Rod Sterling used to say, ''for your consideration''
nothing more....

Kropotkin

[Harbal]

and as I write, things come to mind and I write some more...

Actually, I know what you mean.

[Peter Kropotkin]

I oppose in no uncertain terms the ideals of the ''American way''
to work hard, to become someone, to make as our final objective
values like money, fame, titles, material possessions and power....
these trinkets offer us nothing... to pursue, as we are supposed
to pursue as ''good Americans'' those values is why, in part, we
are lost as a nation.... for in pursuing money, the only thing
we get from pursuing money, is money... and from pursuing fame,
all we get is fame and in pursuing material possessions we get nothing else...
and in pursuing power and titles gets us nothing more than power and titles...
we get nothing out of pursuing those trinkets outside of the trinket itself....

and wind up empty and disillusion.......for money has nothing to offer
to us outside of money... we can't still the broken heart with money
and we can't find peace and happiness or contentment or even thoughts
that bring us joy in our heart..... for money brings us nothing that
sooths the soul... we are agitated and unhappy for the pursuit of money
doesn't sooth the soul.. it doesn't feed the soul and leaves us hungry
for more.... as does the search for fame, or titles or power or material
possessions... and as long we seek these failed trinkets of existence,
we shall continue to be unhappy, miserable, troubled, and discouraged...

we are miserable because we are pursuing the wrong values, the wrong
''way of life''.. and until we begin the examination of what values we should
be engaged with, pursuing, we shall continue to be unhappy and miserable....
as a people, as a country, as a civilization........

many people blame liberals for the continued unrest in this country,
but I hold it to be the values we have as a ''way of life''
and we cannot move forward until we get to the values that allow
us to move forward.....

if one says, but Kropotkin you are wrong... and stuck you shall remain in
the morass we currently exist in right now....
it is only by exploring the values of existence can we begin to overcome
our current state of stagnation and despair...

I am not saying that one must explore certain, set values, I am saying that
we must explore all the values that we hold, regardless of being right or left..
moral or immoral....and if that value/belief isn't a value you actually hold to,
then it must be consigned to the fires...as Hume himself suggested....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

another thought... on identity....

how do we/I identify myself is a question that we, each of us,
have to answer ourselves....do I identify in collective terms,
as an American, or as White, or third generation Irish, or as a male?

or do I self-identify singular as heterosexual, or perhaps as an atheist.....
for most people, most people, when we are ask to self identify, we
usually give out our job title, what work we do....or perhaps I could
identify as a writer... I do have a book that was published.. well, self-published
on the internet...in which 13 people bought a copy, of which 11 were family
members... it helps to have a large family sometimes...

so, on what grounds, do decide to self-identify? on our sexual identities,
our religion, our politics, our race, our color, on the amount of hair we have?
I am a sports fanatic.. I will watch almost all sports, well, not race cars,
that is as boring as sin... should I self-identify as a sports fanatic?
and why that identity and not another?

this question leads us to our own thoughts as to who we are...
not ''what am I to do?" but ''Who am I?" it is becoming clearer as
I have grown older, that I am an intellectual... one who deals with
ideas and the impact of those idea on who we are... I have spoken
time and time again, how the right/conservatives have self identify as
conservatives and what that means... and how we, I self-identify
as a liberal... and what that says about who I am....it is said tha,
liberals tend to deal with people as a group.. that we see people
as part of a group, not as individuals... not individuals who are occasionally,
stupid or smell bad or smoke cigarettes... that we don't see individuals
as they are, we see them as we hope them to be... as I am quite
aware of my own failings, I see quite clearly who I am given my own
flaws... but do I see other people with an equally clear eye or with some sort
of vision as to who they really are? I like to think so.....

I have worked retail for over 20 years and one can pick up who people
are, quite quickly... it becomes a question of survival to be able to
see who you are dealing with... and at times, I can, as an outside,
see people for who they are, not as who they think they are...
we humans often have a flawed conception of who we are,
and we think we are smarter or braver or kinder or more loving
then we actually are.... and this self-identity we have and the
quite different reality we have of ourselves, is a problem we have...
in that our words and our reality/actions, they are two distinct and separate things...
and we need to work out connecting our words, with who we really are....
matching our words with the actions.... so to speak one, is to act the
same way.... there is no difference in how we think about ourselves
and how we act.. the two match each other... and that is one of my goals...
to match my words with my ''true self''' that my words match my actions...
and the only way that is possible is for us to have a clear understanding
of who we are, who we really are... warts and all.... but who is brave enough
to make that engagement?

One of my ongoing battles as a human beings came when I realized
that I have a mean streak within me... I have noticed I can be
really, really mean... a mean steak a mile long.. and that means I
must be aware of that all the time...it is a constant battle with me
not to allow or let my mean streak dictate the situation... and I am
ever aware of this... this is a battle sometimes I win and sometimes I
lose.... but I never stop with this ongoing struggle to become a better
human being....and what is your struggle? how do you become better?
or said differently, how do you match your words with your actions?

Kropotkin

[Age]

I leave the title rather vague as I don't actually know what I
am going to write about... anyway, today is about education...

Are you going to talk and write about what the word 'education', which once meant, and was intended to mean, refer to, and be used as, or are you going to talk and write about the Truly foolish and deceptive way 'education' is used, in the days when this is being written?

I have referred to education as being one of the most important
needs of human beings...along with food and water and shelter.....
for we cannot answer the proverbial questions of existence without some
education... the Kantian questions, '''What am I to do?" ''What can I know?"
''What should I believe in?"

And, even after all of the so-called 'education' you human beings have been 'taught' and 'learned' you, still, cannot even get close to finding out and uncovering the actual answers to these type of questions.

you adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, after all still do not yet even know and still cannot get even close to answering what the actual proper and Correct answer to the question, 'Who am 'I'?'.

as a dad, I can tell you that education begins at a child's birth....

As human beings you all knew this anyway.

What is also obvious is that a lot of what you adult human beings, in the days when was being written, were 'teaching' your children, from birth, what is Wrong, in Life. But, you are not yet aware of this.

and what is educated into the mind and heart of a child

But, the heart beats to pump blood. The heart does not 'learn' any thing.

There is also no 'mind' of a child, nor you adult human beings.

is the
assumptions of a state/society...

But, not only the assumptions are 'taught', but also the beliefs, views, thoughts, and knowing, as well.

we, in our daily talks and discussions
with others, we detail what is important to us...our assumptions
become, in a very real sense, the very air in which a newborn lives in...
and children, from day one, are sponges... and that ever single action
done to a child is recalled, remembered by both the mind and the body...
to be punched in the arm, is to leave a mark, a recollection of that punch
to the body... and the body remembers...till its dying day....
I recall that when I was a boy, I was completely and totally without fear...
until I was 6, and I jumped off a high diving board... I was trying to do a
back flip...and I missed and landed right on my back... I can recall that
pain of 60 years ago...and that recollection of the pain, later lead me
to having a fear of heights...did I overcome my fear of heights? to a certain
extent.. but never totally... it is something that my mind and body still
recalls... the events of our lives, no matter how old we get, still
linger on in our minds, in our hearts and in our bodies...

and the education we are filled with, good and bad, lingers on in our
minds and heart...and for most of us, our education is really just
indoctrinations into the values and beliefs of our world, state and society.....
there is a god, that America is the greatest nation on Earth, that the
poor are to looked down at.... all our bigotries and prejudice and hatred
are to be found in the indoctrinations of our youth.. in the education
we receive at the hands of our family... my own education/indoctrinations,
were of the moderate kind... of an upper class, Midwestern family,
with its question of duty, where does our duty lie to? god and America
although not necessarily in that order.... and in my teens and twenties,
I engaged with what is referred to as, overcoming... where I examined my
values and beliefs, and decided, as best I could, which values and beliefs
are actually my beliefs and values, and which values/beliefs were actually
the indoctrinations of the state, society and yes, the family....
as much as possible, I tried to decipher my own values, my own
beliefs, and not the indoctrinations of my childhood... the indoctrinations
that still leave a mark on my soul, even today, after 60 plus years...

and those indoctrinations of our childhood still leave a mark on our soul,
our bodies, our minds, unless we take the time to overcome them by
examining our every values, to every principle we hold to be true....

we are, as children educated/indoctrinated, and then we need to spend years
overcoming those indoctrinations... to overcome what those social and political
values that were indoctrinated into us....for as I mentioned, even indoctrinations
implanted into us as children, are still within our soul, the brain and the body.....
and the question becomes, which values and beliefs do we think about
when dealing with the questions of existence... do we think about our
childhood indoctrinations in dealing with adult questions or are we
thinking about those questions based on our own reevaluations of values
that is so much a part of being a teenager and a young adult.......

one of the problems of our modern day is in thinking about education in
terms of our going to school and getting a diploma and getting our job
training to get a job... for that is essentially the point of schooling
and education these days, as job training to become a ''productive member
of society'' I hold that education is not about job training, but about something
far more valuable... the point of education is to reevaluated our
childhood indoctrinations and ''become who you are'' by us
becoming into our real values, our real beliefs... If I hold there is a god, it is not
because of my childhood education/indoctrinations, but by an honest
evaluation of the value and beliefs I hold.. that is the point of education...

to work out what we really believe in and value, not what the state wants
us to value or believe in, but in what we actually do hold to be true....
that is the real value of our education.. and if education is done to
reinforce our indoctrinations, as the right wing aspires to, than
education has no value in America today....

the point of education is not to train us to become workers, producers
and consumers, but to help us understand what we actually value
and believe in.....to become who we are, really are....

Kropotkin

How is 'training' one to understand what they were 'taught' to believe in, going to help become who you human beings, really, are?

Why not just 'teach' and 'train' them to know who and what they, really, are, exactly?

Oh, that is Right. you cannot 'train' and 'teach' what you have not already been 'trained' and 'taught' about.

[Age]

I leave the title rather vague as I don't actually know what I
am going to write about... anyway, today is about education...

So you managed to find out what it's about in the nick of time, just before you started writing. That was a close call, Kropotkin; you sure like to sail close to the wind.

K: I quite often only have a thought or a random line in my head before I
start writing... and as I write, things come to mind and I write some more...
quite often, I wind up in a completely different place then where I started...
I know that.... but, I think, no one might not think so, but I think
I work better this way... my thoughts clarify themselves as I write...

Maybe to you. But, the thoughts within that head do not clarify themselves to others.

In fact, the thoughts within that head seem to believe that the way that 'those thoughts' 'look at' and 'see' things' is how others do as well. Which is obviously very False, and Wrong, some times.

and I am led to a truth that was not so apparent when I started to write.....
but that also leads me to avoid any ideology writing... I don't write
with a specific place I am going to.. my endings are as much a surprise
to me, as they are to you... but I avoid my isms and values in doing so...

you are joking here, right?

I don't take my liberalism as my alpha or omega... and that all my writings must
engage in liberalism...they don't... but that also leads other to accuse me
of not being consistent... that I often contradict myself.. and so what?

Well, 'so what' is that if your views are not being consistent, or contradicting, then your views are not True, Right, Inaccurate, and/or Incorrect. That is 'so what'.

what do I care if I contradict myself?

Only 'you' can, really, answer this.

I am not engage in finding answers,
I am engaged with finding questions and in seeking out questions, who cares
if one is inconsistent.. I don't...

This clearly shows in what you say and write throughout this forum.

or another way of saying that, I am engaged in problem solving..

Just so you are aware, I have yet to see you solve just one problem here.

But, if you think or believe that you have, then will you list that solved problem/s here?

If no, then why not?

seeking out what are the modern day problems and offering up
possible solutions... but possible solutions are not set answers, just
possible answers....take it, don't take.. doesn't matter to me....
as Rod Sterling used to say, ''for your consideration''
nothing more....

Kropotkin

Have you even expressed a so-called 'modern day problem', let alone having solved any here?

[Age]

I oppose in no uncertain terms the ideals of the ''American way''
to work hard, to become someone, to make as our final objective
values like money, fame, titles, material possessions and power....
these trinkets offer us nothing...

But, those trinkets do offer you some things, like, for example, False ideals and/or False beliefs.

to pursue, as we are supposed
to pursue as ''good Americans'' those values is why, in part, we
are lost as a nation.... for in pursuing money, the only thing
we get from pursuing money, is money... and from pursuing fame,
all we get is fame and in pursuing material possessions we get nothing else...
and in pursuing power and titles gets us nothing more than power and titles...
we get nothing out of pursuing those trinkets outside of the trinket itself....

Well it is 'getting these things', which that whole so-called "american society" has been 'set up', or evolved to, 'teaching' children to 'seek out' and 'obtain', 'since birth', as some have already noticed and acknowledged here.

and wind up empty and disillusion.......for money has nothing to offer
to us outside of money... we can't still the broken heart with money
and we can't find peace and happiness or contentment or even thoughts
that bring us joy in our heart..... for money brings us nothing that
sooths the soul... we are agitated and unhappy for the pursuit of money
doesn't sooth the soul..

But, you so-called "adult americans" spending so much time 'seeking out' more, and more, money is not 'your fault', as you were 'taught' that 'seeking out' and 'obtaining' more, and more, money was and still is the best and right thing to do, in Life.

it doesn't feed the soul and leaves us hungry
for more.... as does the search for fame, or titles or power or material
possessions... and as long we seek these failed trinkets of existence,
we shall continue to be unhappy, miserable, troubled, and discouraged...

Being feeling 'unhappy', 'miserable', 'troubled', and/or 'discouraged' is 'your choice', alone. However, if you have been 'trained' and 'taught' the Wrong way, in Life, and especially more so from birth, then you have 'less choices', or 'more Wrong choices' only, to choose from.

we are miserable because we are pursuing the wrong values,

So then, and obviously, just change what you are pursuing. As well as 'teach' others not to 'pursue' the Wrong things, in Life.

That is, of course, if you do not want others to end up feeling 'miserable' like you are here.

the wrong
''way of life''.. and until we begin the examination of what values we should
be engaged with, pursuing, we shall continue to be unhappy and miserable....
as a people, as a country, as a civilization........

And, I have already partly explained how you can find and uncover the 'actual True and Right way', in Life.

many people blame liberals for the continued unrest in this country,
but I hold it to be the values we have as a ''way of life''
and we cannot move forward until we get to the values that allow
us to move forward.....

The 'value' that allows you to move forward, always, is OPENNESS.

And, when Truly OPEN, always, then all the problems, questions, solutions, and answers come forward, continually, always also.

In fact once one asks the Right question, and problem, from a Truly OPEN perspective, and answers that question properly and Correctly, then 'the solution' to 'that question/problem' is 'the solution' to finding 'the answers' to all of the problems, and all of the Truly meaningful questions, in Life.

if one says, but Kropotkin you are wrong... and stuck you shall remain in
the morass we currently exist in right now....
it is only by exploring the values of existence can we begin to overcome
our current state of stagnation and despair...

I am not saying that one must explore certain, set values, I am saying that
we must explore all the values that we hold, regardless of being right or left..
moral or immoral....and if that value/belief isn't a value you actually hold to,
then it must be consigned to the fires...as Hume himself suggested....

Kropotkin

But, the 'values', 'morality', and/or 'beliefs, which you all have and hold onto 'individually' or 'personally' are not the values, morality, knowledge, nor belief that will guide and show you the Correct path to take, which will take you along the Right 'track', in Life.

[Peter Kropotkin]

and moving on....

we see in this world what I have called ''soul sickness''
and this observation is certainly not new... it has become
the modern condition... and how are we to solve, overcome
this sickness?

And therein lies the tale... I have advocated, many times in many different
ways, the path to overcome this soul sickness is to A. become aware of it,
and then B. work to overcome this.. by seeking out values and beliefs
that are really your own... by not holding to values and beliefs that
have been indoctrinated into you, but values you have come to
as your own... Part of being ''soul sick'' is the inability to know your own
true values.. to depend on values that you were indoctrinated with,
values that are the society/state values, not your own values...

but and we have much of the modern society response to being ''soul sick''
is to overcome it with socially/politically mandated solutions... and both
the left and right commit this crime... the ''solution'' comes from legislating
out so called ''wrong values''.. so, we are ''soul sick'' and what is the cure?
By using the state power of legislation to fix being ''soul sick''...
the right think that we can use the power of the state to return people
to being ''moral'' agents of god... thus you legislate morality in terms
of what people can do as an attempt to overcome ''soul sickness''
so, you ban abortion, as an attempt to use the power of the state
to overcome ''immorality''... you enforce rules demanding that all citizens
obey god in public places but only the Chistian god, not
the Buddhist god or the Islamic god, or Jainist god.... and that is the ''cure''
of ''soul sickness'' according to the right...

(and by obeying god in public places, means you ban homosexuality or
cross dressing, or drag shows in public, that is how one tries to obey god
publicly, by banning actions considered to be ''sins'' against god)

and the left does it by promoting PC speech.. but both instances are
against my own inclination... in which we use public policy and laws...
legislating against something because it is considered to be ''soul sick''

or said another way, to use public legislation to control people into
behaving ''correctly''.. and the right has a different understanding of
behaving correctly than the left does... different sins are ''controlled''
by the right and the left...

I hold that you cannot legislate people into ''correct'' behavior.. you
cannot use public policy to turn people into moral actors...
which is what both the left and the right do...taking public legislation
and trying to remake people into moral agents...

the act of overcoming is not a public matter, but a private matter...
morality cannot be legislated by a governing body...
but Kropotkin, we can't murder by legislation, and we can't steal
by legislation.... we are legislated by public policy into moral
actions.... but think of the difference... murder and theft,
world wide is considered to be immoral, it isn't a bible thing nor
is it a Hindu or Buddhist thing, it is world wide that murder and
theft are prohibited... it is generally understood that by allowing
murder and legalize theft, you threaten to undermine the ability of
a society/state to function... but you can allow such ''immoral'' actions
as abortion and not undermine a societies ability to function....

this question of actions being public and actions being private...
where we draw the line becomes a case study of where that society/state is...
it is my contention that abortions are not a public act requiring public
attention.. whereas murder is a public act requiring public attention...
if the argument against abortions is about the lives of the fetus, then
it is not a public act...for a public act would engage us in some
public fashion, such as murder or theft.. abortions being about
a choice a woman makes about her own body, that is a private choice..
it doesn't affect the public... if a woman has an abortion in the next town
over, how does that affect me? It doesn't... but if a murder occurs
the next town over, it does affect me because it is a public act, it
weakens the stability of the society/state... for acts of violence,
such as murder, weaken the ability of the state/society to function...
public acts vs private acts....

and thus, we can legislate public acts, such as murder and theft,
but we cannot legislate private acts, such as abortion, prayer,
putting god into schools (because a choice of god/religion is a private
matter, not a public matter) and we cannot legislate matters
such as being PC, into a public framework.... that is a bridge too far...
but being PC can be and is, a private matter between individuals...
as long as we don't legislate being PC into public policy, it is all good....

thus being a social justice warrior is fine, as long as, one doesn't try to
take that into the public framework... if it stays private, then it is fine,
if it becomes public policy, then it is a danger.. private acts must
stay private, public acts can be legislated upon...being a SJW privately
is acceptable, using SJW beliefs in creating public policy is not acceptable.....

but Kropotkin, that is an awfully fine line... yep...yes, it is....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

so let us explore this a bit... how does a man who thinks he is
a woman, using the womans bathroom create a public problem?
I mean, why should I care that a man/who is transitioning using
a bathroom, become a problem? or let us try this, how does a man
who is cross dressing and being part of a drag show, a public problem?

Now one might say, that is sin that is punishable by god... great, let
god punish him... the problem becomes that if people actually trusted
god to punish sinners, they would actually let god punish him.. instead
of playing god and punishing them yourself... to say, I must punish
instead of god, is to say, I don't trust god enough to punish a sinner...
that is rather bold of a believer to think they can't trust god enough
to punish a sinner.... the second problem comes from this notion
that these acts are actually ''sins'' worth punishing...
to turn cross dressing into a ''sin'' takes some serious mental gymnastics...
for example, in the bible, Matthew 6:25

''Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what
you will eat or what you will drink, nor about body, what you will put on.
Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
The clothing we wear is not what is most important-trusting god is''

and the modern prohibition against cross dressing come from
Christian standards, not any other standard...
remove religion, and is there any reason to attack cross dressing?
the question becomes one of a private standard vs a public standard...
and there is no public standard in which to ban cross dressing or drag shows....


Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

thoughts on becoming human...

we are born into a state/society that has its set theory and isms that
it promotes.. to name a few,, that there is a god and that (in America,
anyway) America is number one and among other indoctrinations of the
state/society.....and every state/society has its own indoctrinations...

and we are then indoctrinated into that state/society isms from birth..
as I have noted before, education is just another example of indoctrinations...
education by its very definition is an indoctrination... what the
society/state values are, is what is taught in schools... thus in America,
we are educated to become workers, producers and consumers.. that is
the focus of education in America, it is basically job training from the very
first day of school, kindergarten...through college..

and then as young adults or in our twenties, we see that the
ism's we were taught, is different than the terrain on the ground...
we are taught the theory of stuff and in the real world, we see things
differently.. and this disconnect between our education/indoctrinations,
and the reality on the ground wakes us up... and we can spend years,
even the rest of our lives trying to match up the reality we see and
the indoctrinations/educations we were taught...quite often vastly
different things.... ideas like the survival of the fittest come into
question when we see that it is only by cooperation that we can
succeed... the prejudices, bigotries, hatreds that we are
indoctrinated with, we often, not always, but often see them
for what they are.... a failed path into the future...

look at children playing, there is no bigotry or prejudice in
that play....children only see other children playing, they don't see
color or race or creed in playing games.... that is educated/indoctrinated
into them as they grow up..... and then as teenagers or young adults,
they see, sometimes, the indoctrinations of their youth, for what it is,
indoctrinated into see others as bad or evil based on such criteria as
race or the color of another skin....

and here is where the Enlightenment began... by getting people to
realize, to see that their education engages with prejudice and bigotry
and hatred... which includes indoctrinations such as there is a god,
and the greatness of America.... in overcoming, we have to overcome
the childhood indoctrinations of prejudice and bigotry and also the
indoctrinations of America's greatness and god's existence...to name
a few indoctrinations that we must overcome...and the goal is to
arrive at what our values and beliefs are, not what we have been
indoctrinated with, but what we actually believe...

that is the entire point of the Enlightenment, to learn to overcome
our childhood indoctrinations... and that goal still exists today....
to become free by holding to values and beliefs that are our values
and beliefs, not the society's/state values and beliefs...
and this includes the isms and ideologies of our times...

so, we learn to overcome isms as in Christianity, Hinduism,
capitalism, communism, Buddhism to name a few ism's that
we are indoctrinated into... the act of overcoming is really just
getting to the values and beliefs that we, ourselves hold to,
and in overcoming, we become who we are, because we
hold to values and beliefs that are ours, and no one else....

and that is the final point in our path of going from animal,
to animal/human to finally becoming fully human....
where we no longer hold to the childhood indoctrinations
we are educated into...and we reach, finally, becoming human.....

and becoming human is a two step process... one, to overcome
our childhood indoctrinations and two, the overcome our instincts...
animals are creatures of instincts... everything they know about reacting
to other beings and events, is by instincts...think of instincts as programming..
they are programmed to react to things by nature/evolution... and they
cannot escape their instincts/programming... they must follow their instincts
to the bitter end, with no other options available...

but we human beings can overcome our instincts, we can overrule them
and even dominate our instincts/programming of evolution...and thus the
path to becoming human lies in two directions, overcoming our
programming/instincts and two, in finding out what our values and beliefs are,
not what we were indoctrinated into.... but our true values and beliefs.....

these are the paths of becoming human, fully human... but Kropotkin,
are there other paths to becoming human? Yes, of course, there are,
but they are not my path to becoming human... as there doesn't seem to be
a universal/overall path into becoming human, there must be other means
to becoming human, fully human.... and I ask you, by what means can we
go from animal to animal/human to becoming fully human?
what does that road look like?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

we have a dual track in existence...

the first track is the individual track.. 
Kropotkin working out what Kropotkin believes in, in what
Kropotkin hopes the future is, in the Kantian questions..
""What am I to do?" ''What can I know?" ''What should I believe in?"
and the Kropotkin additions to the Kantian questions?
''On what should I spend my energy on?"

and the second track of existence, which is our collective, communal
existence... I am one of millions/billions... what is my own relationship
to all those other billions of people? and we, in order to secure our own rights,
we have created government....as the declaration of Independence says,

''We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are create equal,
that they are endowed, by their creator, with certain unalienable rights,
that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.. --
that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men......''

and therein lies the second track of existence... that of government
that exists to insure that we have our ''unalienable rights''...
a government that doesn't ensure our rights, is not a government
that is doing its job...when we have government taking away our rights,
such as the right to vote, or the right to free assembly or abortion rights,
if we lose these rights, we have not only the right to, but the obligation
to remake the government.... and the current climate of taking away
rights is anathema to the original founding fathers idea of government
for the perseveration of rights... the idea of the so called ''pro-life''
movement which is taking away rights from the people existing here and now,
to defend the rights of a future, not existing today group....

this notion of creating rights to the unborn over the rights of the already
living and breathing citizens can and will lead us into creating all kinds
of make-believe rights for those who don't even exists today....

and who rights ought we protect? those who exists and live today, or
the rights to some who might potentially, possible exists tomorrow?
in reading the declaration of Independence, one see that the rights we
must protect is of the here and now, not the possible rights of those
who don't even live today... why are we giving precedence to those
who aren't even alive right now, over those who are alive and breathing?

this idea set a very dangerous precedent... for if we can grant rights
to those aren't even alive right now over those who are alive right now,
then we can take away rights from anyone based on a possible future,
not a set, given future, but a potential future....for any reason....
so, we can ban blacks because they might, in the future, rise
up and cause a civil war in America's future.. that is one cost of
protecting those who are only potential as oppose to protecting
the rights of those already alive....

we can potentially grant or remove, rights based on what might be,
not on what is.....

this second track of our existence, in which we find our place in
the state/society where our rights is, the theory anyway,
protected by the government.....but to lose our current rights,
in the name of those who don't even exists right now, not only
destroys our own individual rights, but destroys our collective
rights... the more we adhere to taking away rights from the here
and now, and give them to some future generation is another step
closer to the dissolution of our government....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

ok, let us work this out.......

if one is ok with reducing or removing the rights of currently alive
people to replace those rights with rights given to the future,
to a possible, potential future.. umm, so, what does that mean?

it means that we can, under that logic, remove people's right to
gas power cars and force everyone to drive electric cars...
if we can remove current rights for a possible future, then
a possible future is where we have no gas and global warming
has possible destroyed the world, as we know.....

so, to prevent this possible, potential future, we take away current
rights, as protect the future... just as we have taken away current rights,
abortions, to protect a possible, potential future..... you have just opened
up a pandora box in which we can take away anyone rights in the name
of some possible, potential future...and give them the rights we deny
to those today....

So, to prevent a future civil war of the haves vs the haves nots,
I declare we can take away the rights of the wealthy and take their
money and spread it about to the people... that income inequality
threatens our future, we must then take away all the wealth from
wealthy people... in order to protect a possible, potential future....
take away rights from one alive group, to protect a possible future
group and given them those rights.....that is exactly what
taking away the right to abortion will lead us to, taking away
rights from a current, alive group and giving it to a possible,
potential, future group... one that isn't even alive today....

Kropotkin