Excel to Analyze Q Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:44 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:18 am There are pros and cons on whether rules related to human behaviors are related to principles or stipulated precisely for every possible human behavior.
On a first take, it is very irrational, not pragmatics [and idiotic = having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.] to cater for every possible human behavior.
Jurisprudential questions are cases brought forward by the general public, leading up to jurisprudential rulings. Example:
Ruling on Appetite Suppressant Patches While Fasting. If the imaginable behavior is relevant, then someone will ask about it, and then there will be rulings. This results in a large database of rulings. If you never explore or search such databases, you will obviously have no clue about what they contain. It is irrational to have an opinion without doing any research whatsoever. What do you base your opinion on iin that case? Mere fantasy?
The question is, what is God's judgment on the above?
There are verses in the holy book related to fasting.
It one study the holy texts and if indicated Appetite Suppressant Patches are not appropriate in accordance to the verses, then one should avoid Appetite Suppressant Patches.
If believers want to follow the figh that is their discretion BUT the point is there is no compulsory dictate from God that a believer must follow the figh that is man-made.

An average person can read God's word by himself and made his own judgment whether Appetite Suppressant Patches are acceptable or not; then take personal responsible for his own interpretations on judgment day.

The point is there is no guarantee figh [fallible] is exactly or even reflect accurately what is God intention. As such a believer could be misled to behave wrongly and no one will help him on judgment day in being sent to hell.

My point is figh which is man-made is fallible and not idiot proof.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:18 am As I understand, in politics, laws are based on general principles and not every possible acts, and it is left to the judge or jury to decide.
Even within corporations, they have Standard Operating Procedures [SOP] which are authoritative and details in manuals with are only guides. It is then up to the management of the company to decide what is compliance and non-compliance.
It is the same with religions and other groups with their main constitution.
Well, we have a database with practical cases to consult for that. They may not have a database but we certainly do. That is the difference.
My point is you may have a large database of man-made figh but being fallible, they cannot be guaranteed to align with God's intention. Some may end up being evil laden.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:18 am As I had explained, morality-proper is about personal development of one's inherent moral function which is independent from laws, customs, religions, politics and group ideologies.
That is how it works for you. In my case, I use a distributed online database with jurisprudential rulings.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:18 am But as it is, we need transitional ladders [UN, politics, religions, customs] to facilitate that personal development.
We reject the UN and politics. They are not a legitimate source for morality. Instead, we use a distributed online database with jurisprudential rulings.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:18 am You can spit on politicians and UN personnel, committees [the worst are those with Islamists in them] but not on the generic human principles the UN was founded upon.
I believe that the so-called "generic human principles the UN was founded upon" is a pile of deceptive and manipulative lies that I reject, repudiate, reprobate, and utterly condemn. The proof is even in the pudding. One of the first decisions made by the UN was to give away half of the land of the Palestinians, leading them to be expelled and ethnically cleansed out of their native lands. The UN is simply despicable; has always been and will always be.
Again you are ignorant of the facts:
AI wrote:The United Nations is founded upon several core human principles, outlined in its founding document, the Charter of the United Nations https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter. Here are some of the key principles:

Equal rights and self-determination of peoples: All nations, regardless of size or power, are seen as equal members.

Human rights and fundamental freedoms: The UN promotes respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without discrimination.

Peace and security: The UN aims to maintain international peace and security and to settle international disputes peacefully.

Friendly relations among states: The UN encourages cooperation between nations to solve global problems.

Social progress and better standards of living: The UN promotes social progress and economic development for all.
How can you condemn the above generic human principles?

The decision re Palestinians and Israel was a complex one and I believe that was the optimal decision based on condition during that time. This was also given, the Jews occupied those lands thousands years ago and were driven out.
I wish that division had not happened and the Jews were given land somewhere in US, Canada or some remote regions.

One point to note is, the Israelites did not not have that much more land than the Palestinians, how come the Israel progressed so well but not the Palestinians?
I read somewhere, when the IDF withdrew from the Gaze Strip, there was high hopes the Gazan could developed into something like a "highly developed nation" with the help of Israel.

What basically held them back was the doctrine of the religion [fasadin, occupation of land];
as we can see the amount of funds which could potential drove developments in Gaza were misdirected to build 300-500 km of tunnels which possible cost billions $$; this intent is supported by their figh and tafsir; all because of religious doctrines.

You also need to understand you are exercising very strong irrational bias due to the primal us vs. them inherent in you.
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am An average person can read God's word by himself and made his own judgment whether Appetite Suppressant Patches are acceptable or not; then take personal responsible for his own interpretations on judgment day.
That is not how it works. This gigantic database creates a massive counterweight against the corrupt mainstream narrative. The stream of rulings is its own narrative which shows up on the users home page. Instead of getting inundated with deceptive mainstream tripe, the user's home feed shows edifying information.

Because of personalization, we all get different home feeds on social media, i.e. YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, and so on. This type of news items reminds us that mainstream news is just trash.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am The point is there is no guarantee figh [fallible] is exactly or even reflect accurately what is God intention.
Except for the most difficult cases, It is trivially correct. For difficult cases, it is a question of letting the dust settle until consensus has finally materialized.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am How can you condemn the above generic human principles?
Centralized authority is corrupt. The UN is just a feeble attempt at reinstating something similar to the Catholic church. History is merely repeating itself. This time, they are trying that based on atheist declarations promising all kinds of so-called "human rights", which are in fact just a deceptive misnomer for LGBTQ propaganda.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am I wish that division had not happened and the Jews were given land somewhere in US, Canada or some remote regions.
The wars will continue until the problem created by the UN has been solved. Ultimately, the occupation of Palestine is an exercise in Gambler's Ruin. It will work until it doesn't anymore. They can fend off the inevitable even a hundred times, but that will be to no avail, because if they fail, the outcome will be final.

Their only hope is that we would believe their lies and deceptive narratives. We won't. Seriously, it does not matter how long it takes or how many generations.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am One point to note is, the Israelites did not not have that much more land than the Palestinians, how come the Israel progressed so well but not the Palestinians?
On the short run, economics, technology, and military force matter. On the long run, the only thing that matters, is demographics.

That is their Achilles heel, because of one word:

hoeflation.

That is what will increasingly defeat the occupation from within. It will also increasingly defeat the West from within.

In fact, if you read the Old Testament, you will understand that Israel always collapsed again and again because of a new wave of growing hoeflation.

In the presence of hoeflation, it becomes increasingly difficult to supply recruits to the army. The decreasing marriage rate and the collapsing birth rate do not allow for that. Promiscuity destroys entire nations. Recruiting foreigners, like the Romans eventually had to do, is not a long-term option either.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am You also need to understand you are exercising very strong irrational bias due to the primal us vs. them inherent in you.
The fastest growing demographic in Israel, are the Haredim. They don't do military service. They also believe that the occupation should stop and that the land should be returned to the Palestinians. The Haredim are effectively allies of the Palestinians.

Moreover, the Zionist occupation government currently has to contend with mass protests. A large part of their IDF conscripts do not want to fight either. Therefore, your "us versus them" hypothesis is very, very simplistic.

Furthermore, you are quick to call other people irrational, while it is you who keeps repeating deceptive propaganda. Not believing your propaganda, is not irrational at all. You sound too much like a mouthpiece of the erstwhile Soviet "ministry of truth".
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am An average person can read God's word by himself and made his own judgment whether Appetite Suppressant Patches are acceptable or not; then take personal responsible for his own interpretations on judgment day.
That is not how it works. This gigantic database creates a massive counterweight against the corrupt mainstream narrative. The stream of rulings is its own narrative which shows up on the users home page. Instead of getting inundated with deceptive mainstream tripe, the user's home feed shows edifying information.

Because of personalization, we all get different home feeds on social media, i.e. YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, and so on. This type of news items reminds us that mainstream news is just trash.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am The point is there is no guarantee figh [fallible] is exactly or even reflect accurately what is God intention.
Except for the most difficult cases, It is trivially correct. For difficult cases, it is a question of letting the dust settle until consensus has finally materialized.
I don't deny the sort of guideline you are promoting has its use for the majority at the present due to their psychological state.
Since figh is fallible, there is a great chance the critical elements may not align with what God intended.
In addition it is too cumbersome and not efficient in the long run since every believer will have to remember all the dictates or refer to it at all times to check whether they are behaving right.
In a way the believers' life is straight-jacketed by all those massive piles of rules to follow.

There are > 1.5 billion, it is difficult for all believers to practice the above. Some % of believers may not be bothered about it.
It is possible that some figh [since fallible] may be evil laden and the % of evil prone will commit those evil acts literally as evident by the terrible violence they committed as influenced by their religion and religious leaders.

The concern is not with the majority of believers.
But if only 10% that is a whopping 150 million who could turn certain figh into evil acts.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am How can you condemn the above generic human principles?
Centralized authority is corrupt. The UN is just a feeble attempt at reinstating something similar to the Catholic church. History is merely repeating itself. This time, they are trying that based on atheist declarations promising all kinds of so-called "human rights", which are in fact just a deceptive misnomer for LGBTQ propaganda.
You are wrong.
The UN do not act as some sort of authority.
The UN merely provide guidelines and influence its members to adopt those guidelines with their respective constitution.

Unfortunately the UN are operated by humans where some are evil and some are good.
In general and in nature, the fact is the 'good' will always prevails over 'evil' in time.
This is evident via the success with reference to slavery, racism and certain others, indicating the UN mission is working progressively.

Eventually as humans evolved further in time, the above generic human principles will slowly prevail as demonstrated below;
The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined is a 2011 book by Steven Pinker, in which the author argues that violence in the world has declined both in the long run and in the short run and suggests explanations as to why this has occurred.[1] The book uses data simply documenting declining violence across time and geography. This paints a picture of massive declines in the violence of all forms, from war, to improved treatment of children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bette ... Our_Nature
The only hindrance to the above are the immutable verses which are evil laden from a religion.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am I wish that division had not happened and the Jews were given land somewhere in US, Canada or some remote regions.
The wars will continue until the problem created by the UN has been solved. Ultimately, the occupation of Palestine is an exercise in Gambler's Ruin. It will work until it doesn't anymore. They can fend off the inevitable even a hundred times, but that will be to no avail, because if they fail, the outcome will be final.

Their only hope is that we would believe their lies and deceptive narratives. We won't. Seriously, it does not matter how long it takes or how many generations.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am One point to note is, the Israelites did not not have that much more land than the Palestinians, how come the Israel progressed so well but not the Palestinians?
On the short run, economics, technology, and military force matter. On the long run, the only thing that matters, is demographics.

That is their Achilles heel, because of one word:

hoeflation.

That is what will increasingly defeat the occupation from within. It will also increasingly defeat the West from within.

In fact, if you read the Old Testament, you will understand that Israel always collapsed again and again because of a new wave of growing hoeflation.

In the presence of hoeflation, it becomes increasingly difficult to supply recruits to the army. The decreasing marriage rate and the collapsing birth rate do not allow for that. Promiscuity destroys entire nations. Recruiting foreigners, like the Romans eventually had to do, is not a long-term option either.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:50 am You also need to understand you are exercising very strong irrational bias due to the primal us vs. them inherent in you.
The fastest growing demographic in Israel, are the Haredim. They don't do military service. They also believe that the occupation should stop and that the land should be returned to the Palestinians. The Haredim are effectively allies of the Palestinians.

Moreover, the Zionist occupation government currently has to contend with mass protests. A large part of their IDF conscripts do not want to fight either. Therefore, your "us versus them" hypothesis is very, very simplistic.

Furthermore, you are quick to call other people irrational, while it is you who keeps repeating deceptive propaganda. Not believing your propaganda, is not irrational at all. You sound too much like a mouthpiece of the erstwhile Soviet "ministry of truth".
The above is not likely to be resolved as long the immutable evil laden verses of the religion driving it exists.
Note the Tibetans' lands were occupied by China, why there is no such terrible violence going on as with the Palestinians.
The difference is in the religion that is driving the believers therein and other believers who support the cause based on their religious belief.
There are protests and violence all over the world by believers [thousands of miles away] who are not even residing in Palestine. Why??
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:20 am Since figh is fallible, there is a great chance the critical elements may not align with what God intended.
So, are you arguing that we should not use a particular tool because the tool is not perfect? I guess that we should not use screwdrivers either?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:20 am In addition it is too cumbersome and not efficient in the long run since every believer will have to remember all the dictates or refer to it at all times to check whether they are behaving right.
In a way the believers' life is straight-jacketed by all those massive piles of rules to follow.
These concerns only exists in your fantasy.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:20 am The concern is not with the majority of believers.
But if only 10% that is a whopping 150 million who could turn certain figh into evil acts.
These people are not evil. They are merely impatient. As I argued previously, the problem is largely busy solving itself.

It's like when prince Bagration told Tsar Alexander that it was of no use to engage Napoleon's grande armee in battle because the problem was obviously solving itself.

No kidding, the weather alone would already solve it.

The court in Saint Petersburg somewhat acknowledged the prince's take on the matter, but decided that for reasons of the honor of the Russian nation, prince Bagration was to align the regiments of the Russian Empire in combat formation in Borodino, make a stand, and engage Napoleon resolutely in battle.

I would personally, cautiously but nonetheless have supported Tsar Alexander's decision at the Imperial Council in Saint Petersburg.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:01 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:20 am Since figh is fallible, there is a great chance the critical elements may not align with what God intended.
So, are you arguing that we should not use a particular tool because the tool is not perfect? I guess that we should not use screwdrivers either?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:20 am In addition it is too cumbersome and not efficient in the long run since every believer will have to remember all the dictates or refer to it at all times to check whether they are behaving right.
In a way the believers' life is straight-jacketed by all those massive piles of rules to follow.
These concerns only exists in your fantasy.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:20 am The concern is not with the majority of believers.
But if only 10% that is a whopping 150 million who could turn certain figh into evil acts.
These people are not evil. They are merely impatient. As I argued previously, the problem is largely busy solving itself.

It's like when prince Bagration told Tsar Alexander that it was of no use to engage Napoleon's grande armee in battle because the problem was obviously solving itself.

No kidding, the weather alone would already solve it.

The court in Saint Petersburg somehow acknowledged the prince's take on the matter, but decided that for reasons of the honor of the Russian nation, prince Bagration was to align the regiments of the Russian Empire in combat formation in Borodino, make a stand, and engage Napoleon resolutely in battle.

I would personally, cautiously but nonetheless have supported Tsar Alexander's decision at the Imperial Council in Saint Petersburg.
"Impatience" is not relevant to my point.

I presume you understand the Normal Distribution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

Taking a good vs evil continuum, it is likely that 10% are evil prone of varying degrees.
Psychopaths are within the 1% percentile.
Therefore it is a fact, there will be 10% of evil prone believers within the >1.5 billion, that is 150 million [crudely].
Btw, it only took around 20 to do a 911.

Since figh is fallible, it is likely there are say 5% which are potentially evil laden.

As such there is a potential for the manifestation of evil via the combination of 10% evil prone believers influenced by 5% of evil-laden figh. This is already evident.
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:11 am "Impatience" is not relevant to my point.
It is very relevant.

Millions of Muslims desire to engage the Waffe IDF in battle and insist that their own nation should join the war on the side of Hamas. Even though I somewhat share their opinion that military action against the Zionist adversary is indeed necessary, I think that Hezbollah is making the right decision by at this point limiting military action to probing and testing the defenses of the Zionist occupation.

Experience is key in this matter. You need to intimately know and experience enemy tactics. That is why patience is a virtue in this subject.

It is because of their extensive experience and intimate knowledge of the adversary that the Soviets managed to proceed so swiftly and so decisively against Heeresgruppe Mitte in the summer of 1944 during the operation codenamed 'Bagration'. That is also why the landing on Ohama Beach in Normandy during operation 'Overlord' in August 1944, in spite of the months of preparation, was so difficult for the Allies: a complete lack of hands-on experience with overcoming German defenses. Nothing can replace first-hand experience.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:53 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:11 am "Impatience" is not relevant to my point.
It is very relevant.

Millions of Muslims desire to engage the Waffe IDF in battle and insist that their own nation should join the war on the side of Hamas. Even though I somewhat share their opinion that military action against the Zionist adversary is indeed necessary, I think that Hezbollah is making the right decision by at this point limiting military action to probing and testing the defenses of the Zionist occupation.

Experience is key in this matter. You need to intimately know and experience enemy tactics. That is why patience is a virtue in this subject.

It is because of their extensive experience and intimate knowledge of the adversary that the Soviets managed to proceed so swiftly and so decisively against Heeresgruppe Mitte in the summer of 1944 during the operation codenamed 'Bagration'. That is also why the landing on Ohama Beach in Normandy during operation 'Overlord' in August 1944, in spite of the months of preparation, was so difficult for the Allies: a complete lack of hands-on experience with overcoming German defenses. Nothing can replace first-hand experience.
I was not applying "impatience" in the above sense.

While Israelists may have committed other evil acts, in this case of their occupation of Gaza, they are acting on self-defense to get rid of Hamas so they do not pose a future threat [like Oct 7 and others] to Israel.
This what the coalition did to get rid of ISIS.
So it is reasonable for Israel to commit to their mission of self-defense.
As reported the IDF has taken steps to minimize civilians deaths given that Hamas cowardice in using civilians as their defense.

If Israel were to attack other countries and non-Jews [like Hamas, ISIS and others Islamists did] then they should be condemned for it. But Israel is not doing that in the present case.

As for Hezbollah's and other Islamist nations unprovoked attack on Israel on the basis of defending their religion and ideology, these unilateral act need to be condemned.
Don't forget, Israel has nukes, if it come to that it is a lost-lost for humanity. But for your sort of believers, it is a lose-win situation since they believe the will be better off with eternal life in paradise, so they give a damn with what happen to humanity.

Your agreement on the above unilateral attacks is purely based on a religious bias and emotional basis [???]
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am While Israelists may have committed other evil acts
Well, yeah ...
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am in this case of their occupation of Gaza, they are acting on self-defense to get rid of Hamas so they do not pose a future threat [like Oct 7 and others] to Israel.
As I have argued previously, witness depositions and other evidence in hand, it is the Waffe IDF that seeks to indiscriminately kill Jewish residents in occupied Palestine, in line with their Hannibal directive. Hamas merely knocks out military personnel. Hamas does not seek to kill Jewish residents. Hamas seeks to capture them alive with a view on exchanging them for their own captives.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am This what the coalition did to get rid of ISIS.
Which apparently failed.

ISIS-K seems to have carried out some unfathomable deeds in Moscow recently. But then again, the investigation is still in progress. According to Russian investigations, Ukraine would have commissioned these things in exchange for a hefty payment. Donald Trump has always been of the opinion that Obama is the founder of ISIS and Hillary the co-founder. They just keep doing hit jobs on behalf of the CIA.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am As reported the IDF has taken steps to minimize civilians deaths given that Hamas cowardice in using civilians as their defense.
Most Hamas officials are civilian. They are the government in Gaza.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am If Israel were to attack other countries and non-Jews [like Hamas, ISIS and others Islamists did] then they should be condemned for it. But Israel is not doing that in the present case.
We are currently still at the bottom of the escalation ladder.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am As for Hezbollah's and other Islamist nations unprovoked attack on Israel on the basis of defending their religion and ideology, these unilateral act need to be condemned.
Why would anybody believe your Soviet-style propaganda?

It is the occupation itself that provokes the attacks. Palestinians have every right to resist the occupation.

Hezbollah is now carefully probing and testing Zionist defenses with a view on engaging the Waffe IDF in combat. I also think that Hezbollah should make headway with installing Russian air defense systems and start targeting the Zionist occupation's airstrips. It seems to take an inordinate amount of time for Hezbollah to finally absorb Russian air defense technology into their weapon arsenal. Of course, they have had much more time already to absorb Iranian equipment.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am Don't forget, Israel has nukes, if it come to that it is a lost-lost for humanity.
Russia, Pakistan -- and almost surely Iran as well -- also have nukes. So what?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am Your agreement on the above unilateral attacks is purely based on a religious bias and emotional basis [???]
It is not due to "bias". I am simply not susceptible to woke, western propaganda. I do not want to hear about feminism or LGBTQ ideology. I am simply not interested.

Furthermore, I am not interested in so-called "unilateral attacks". As far as I am concerned, Carl Herbert von Clausewitz' publication "Vom Kriege" ("About war") is still very relevant today: War is the continuation of the political negotiations but then by other means. If the ZIonist occupation regime agrees to finally stop the occupation of Palestine, then everybody involved would be more than happy to cease military action. Until then, military operations against the Zionist adversary will be continued as needed.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:55 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am While Israelists may have committed other evil acts
Well, yeah ...
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am in this case of their occupation of Gaza, they are acting on self-defense to get rid of Hamas so they do not pose a future threat [like Oct 7 and others] to Israel.
As I have argued previously, witness depositions and other evidence in hand, it is the Waffe IDF that seeks to indiscriminately kill Jewish residents in occupied Palestine, in line with their Hannibal directive. Hamas merely knocks out military personnel. Hamas does not seek to kill Jewish residents. Hamas seeks to capture them alive with a view on exchanging them for their own captives.
I don't have direct evidence.
Are you sure "Hamas merely knocks out military personnel".
But it is reported in the Oct 7 genocides, Jewish residents, babies, children, teens, adults and grannies were killed, raped and kidnap and images were produced to support these claims. The UN also confirmed there were sexual crimes.
Are you saying these are false claims.

As I had stated whoever [Waffe IDF, etc.] committed evil acts they should be condemned and the crimes prevented in future.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am This what the coalition did to get rid of ISIS.
Which apparently failed.
They did got rid of the so-claimed physical Islamic State created by ISIS.

I agree, it is quite impossible to get rid of the ideology of ISIS kind unless we get rid of the religion that support it.
ISIS-K seems to have carried out some unfathomable deeds in Moscow recently. But then again, the investigation is still in progress. According to Russian investigations, Ukraine would have commissioned these things in exchange for a hefty payment. Donald Trump has always been of the opinion that Obama is the founder of ISIS and Hillary the co-founder. They just keep doing hit jobs on behalf of the CIA.
Whoever is the culprit, they must be punished.
I am more concern with the root causes.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am As reported the IDF has taken steps to minimize civilians deaths given that Hamas cowardice in using civilians as their defense.
Most Hamas officials are civilian. They are the government in Gaza.
Since there is a declared wars, then can be killed without complains?
But that is not the case.
In the case of war, civilians are civilians, soldiers are soldiers, they cannot be conflated.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am As for Hezbollah's and other Islamist nations unprovoked attack on Israel on the basis of defending their religion and ideology, these unilateral act need to be condemned.
Why would anybody believe your Soviet-style propaganda?

It is the occupation itself that provokes the attacks. Palestinians have every right to resist the occupation.

Hezbollah is now carefully probing and testing Zionist defenses with a view on engaging the Waffe IDF in combat. I also think that Hezbollah should make headway with installing Russian air defense systems and start targeting the Zionist occupation's airstrips. It seems to take an inordinate amount of time for Hezbollah to finally absorb Russian air defense technology into their weapon arsenal. Of course, they have had much more time already to absorb Iranian equipment.
Israel did not unilateral occupy the Palestinian lands.
There was a global consensus that all Jews to start the state of Israel.

If Hezbollah supported by Iran is going to attack Israel, that is based on a religious factor, so it is a religious war. Without the religion factor, Hezbollah would not have attacked Israel in support.
ft is it the religion that trigger the war unilaterally, then the religion should be condemned.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am Don't forget, Israel has nukes, if it come to that it is a lost-lost for humanity.
Russia, Pakistan -- and almost surely Iran as well -- also have nukes. So what?
You missed my point.
The 'what' is Hezbollah and Iran should bear in mind Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD] and should not escalate the unilateral attack based on religious reasons that is likely to trigger a nuclear war by the parties concerned.

But the religion in essence do not give a damm with MAD because regardless of what happened to humanity, they are assured of a place in paradise.
Such a thought without consideration for the whole of humanity [i.e. a lost-lost] is selfish and evil.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:10 am Your agreement on the above unilateral attacks is purely based on a religious bias and emotional basis [???]
It is not due to "bias". I am simply not susceptible to woke, western propaganda. I do not want to hear about feminism or LGBTQ ideology. I am simply not interested.

Furthermore, I am not interested in so-called "unilateral attacks". As far as I am concerned, Carl Herbert von Clausewitz' publication "Vom Kriege" ("About war") is still very relevant today: War is the continuation of the political negotiations but then by other means. If the ZIonist occupation regime agrees to finally stop the occupation of Palestine, then everybody involved would be more than happy to cease military action. Until then, military operations against the Zionist adversary will be continued as needed.
I say you lack a moral compass due to your emotional attachment to your religion.
The point is all wars and evils acts are inherently immoral.
If one has a moral compass, one will strive to eliminate all wars as much as possible and not condone wars like you are doing, to the extent of ignoring MAD and losing your humanity within.
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am I don't have direct evidence.
Are you sure "Hamas merely knocks out military personnel".
But it is reported in the Oct 7 genocides, Jewish residents, babies, children, teens, adults and grannies were killed, raped and kidnap and images were produced to support these claims. The UN also confirmed there were sexual crimes.
Are you saying these are false claims.
We can only look at the instructions given by the military command chain. That is what military personnel at the bottom of the chain are supposed to follow. They don't always do that. That is obvious. The instructions by the Hamas chain of command was to capture alive as much as possible with a view on exchanging them later on. The instructions to the Waffe IDF was to prevent Hamas from capturing anybody alive. If that results in killing Jewish soldiers or residents or other captives, so be it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

The Hannibal Directive (Hebrew: נוהל חניבעל; also Hannibal Procedure or Hannibal Protocol) is the name of a controversial procedure that was used by Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) until 2016 to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces. According to one version, it says that "the kidnapping must be stopped by all means, even at the price of striking and harming our own forces."[2]

In the latter version, "by all means" was often interpreted literally, as in "an IDF soldier was 'better dead than abducted'".

Israeli newspapers have reported that the IDF was issued orders echoing the wording of the Hannibal Directive during the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. The IDF was ordered to prevent "at all costs" the abduction of Israeli civilians or soldiers, possibly leading to the death of a large number of Israeli hostages.[6][7][8]
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am Israel did not unilateral occupy the Palestinian lands.
There was a global consensus that all Jews to start the state of Israel.
No, because half of the world were still colonies of the West back then. Only the colonizers themselves voted over this, authorizing Jews to colonize Palestine. The colonial times are over now. Palestine is the last remaining colonial occupied territory. The global consensus nowadays is that Israel is a despicable apartheid State.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am If Hezbollah supported by Iran is going to attack Israel, that is based on a religious factor, so it is a religious war. Without the religion factor, Hezbollah would not have attacked Israel in support.
Hezbollah clearly mentions in its charter that its goal is to strive for the dissolution of the colonial occupation of Palestine.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am ft is it the religion that trigger the war unilaterally, then the religion should be condemned.
If the religion means that potentially two billion people will come to the aid of the Palestinians, and help them resisting the Zionist occupation, then the religion is a very good thing for the Palestinians. In order to unite the efforts of the Muslim Ummah against the Zionists, it will be necessary to confront the West, again and again.

Fortunately, China and Russia are willing and even eager to assist. In that sense, the war has only started. This is only the beginning of the beginning. We are now patiently waiting for the Russian Federation to make up their mind and to attack and destroy NATO. We are also waiting for China to finally reestablish their rule in their rebellious province of Taiwan. In the meanwhile, in terms of trade and economics, further decoupling through BRICS+ is also an excellent evolution.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am The 'what' is Hezbollah and Iran should bear in mind Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD] and should not escalate the unilateral attack based on religious reasons that is likely to trigger a nuclear war by the parties concerned.
We don't care. Either the Zionists stop the occupation of Palestine, or else the axis of resistance will make them stop. The choice is theirs.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:20 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am I don't have direct evidence.
Are you sure "Hamas merely knocks out military personnel".
But it is reported in the Oct 7 genocides, Jewish residents, babies, children, teens, adults and grannies were killed, raped and kidnap and images were produced to support these claims. The UN also confirmed there were sexual crimes.
Are you saying these are false claims.
We can only look at the instructions given by the military command chain. That is what military personnel at the bottom of the chain are supposed to follow. They don't always do that. That is obvious. The instructions by the Hamas chain of command was to capture alive as much as possible with a view on exchanging them later on. The instructions to the Waffe IDF was to prevent Hamas from capturing anybody alive. If that results in killing Jewish soldiers or residents or other captives, so be it.
You seem to have very unsavoury hidden dark thoughts.
It is very common for some soldiers to go rogue but in modern times when known, they are punished by their own authorities.
This is not the case with Hamas, we don't read of their vile acts being condemned nor the culprits punished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

The Hannibal Directive (Hebrew: נוהל חניבעל; also Hannibal Procedure or Hannibal Protocol) is the name of a controversial procedure that was used by Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) until 2016 to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces. According to one version, it says that "the kidnapping must be stopped by all means, even at the price of striking and harming our own forces."[2]

In the latter version, "by all means" was often interpreted literally, as in "an IDF soldier was 'better dead than abducted'".

Israeli newspapers have reported that the IDF was issued orders echoing the wording of the Hannibal Directive during the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. The IDF was ordered to prevent "at all costs" the abduction of Israeli civilians or soldiers, possibly leading to the death of a large number of Israeli hostages.[6][7][8]
If this is the case, then such acts is evil and should be condemned.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am Israel did not unilateral occupy the Palestinian lands.
There was a global consensus that all Jews to start the state of Israel.
No, because half of the world were still colonies of the West back then. Only the colonizers themselves voted over this, authorizing Jews to colonize Palestine. The colonial times are over now. Palestine is the last remaining colonial occupied territory. The global consensus nowadays is that Israel is a despicable apartheid State.
It was not a 100% occupation by Israel like what the Russia and China did at present with Crimea and with such intention with Ukraine, Tibet, and others.
Given the current situation, I believe there should a way out without insisting Israel should be removed totally with the past the Jews were also driven out from that land.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am If Hezbollah supported by Iran is going to attack Israel, that is based on a religious factor, so it is a religious war. Without the religion factor, Hezbollah would not have attacked Israel in support.
Hezbollah clearly mentions in its charter that its goal is to strive for the dissolution of the colonial occupation of Palestine.
That is based on the religious factor based on verses from the holy texts.
Israel did not occupy Hezbollah's [Shia] land.
Also note Islam were occupying non-Islamic land since they were first emerged, e.g. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Suadi Arabia, Eygpt and elsewhere.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am ft is it the religion that trigger the war unilaterally, then the religion should be condemned.
If the religion means that potentially two billion people will come to the aid of the Palestinians, and help them resisting the Zionist occupation, then the religion is a very good thing for the Palestinians. In order to unite the efforts of the Muslim Ummah against the Zionists, it will be necessary to confront the West, again and again.

Fortunately, China and Russia are willing and even eager to assist. In that sense, the war has only started. This is only the beginning of the beginning. We are now patiently waiting for the Russian Federation to make up their mind and to attack and destroy NATO. We are also waiting for China to finally reestablish their rule in their rebellious province of Taiwan. In the meanwhile, in terms of trade and economics, further decoupling through BRICS+ is also an excellent evolution.
Fortunately 80-90% of the believers are good humans and not good believers in complying strictly with god's words. It only the 10% i.e. 150 millions who had those bad intentions.
That Russia and China assisting is purely political but triggered by religious elements.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:38 am The 'what' is Hezbollah and Iran should bear in mind Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD] and should not escalate the unilateral attack based on religious reasons that is likely to trigger a nuclear war by the parties concerned.
We don't care. Either the Zionists stop the occupation of Palestine, or else the axis of resistance will make them stop. The choice is theirs.
That is why I stated you do not have a moral compass. You seem to have very unsavoury hidden dark thoughts.
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:58 am That is why I stated you do not have a moral compass. You seem to have very unsavoury hidden dark thoughts.
You are beholden to your own Soviet-style propaganda. You believe in manipulative lies and you repeat them without verifying them against anything.

Occupied Palestine will remain at war until the occupation stops.

The Zionists have always had the option to come to the negotiation table and to discuss the dissolution of their apartheid state and the details of a future successor state. They still have this option today.

If they keep dragging their feet, however, then at some point they will be summoned to the negotiation table to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:28 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:58 am That is why I stated you do not have a moral compass. You seem to have very unsavoury hidden dark thoughts.
You are beholden to your own Soviet-style propaganda. You believe in manipulative lies and you repeat them without verifying them against anything.

Occupied Palestine will remain at war until the occupation stops.

The Zionists have always had the option to come to the negotiation table and to discuss the dissolution of their apartheid state and the details of a future successor state. They still have this option today.

If they keep dragging their feet, however, then at some point they will be summoned to the negotiation table to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender.
Note my OP.
My analysis support in the OP support why you have such evil laden thoughts in compliance to the commands of the holy texts.
While you are not familiar with your holy texts directly you are controlled like a zombie with influences from your experts who understood the terms of their divine contract [covenant].

Btw, if you were a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, do you think you will adopt the beliefs you have posted so far?

If you were a Christian, and commit the evil acts you believed so far [exterminate Jews], on Judgment Day with your maker, Jesus and God will f you with
"WTF I commanded you to love all and even your enemies and you disobeyed my command, I will send you to eternal hell."
godelian
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:26 am
godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:28 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:58 am That is why I stated you do not have a moral compass. You seem to have very unsavoury hidden dark thoughts.
You are beholden to your own Soviet-style propaganda. You believe in manipulative lies and you repeat them without verifying them against anything.

Occupied Palestine will remain at war until the occupation stops.

The Zionists have always had the option to come to the negotiation table and to discuss the dissolution of their apartheid state and the details of a future successor state. They still have this option today.

If they keep dragging their feet, however, then at some point they will be summoned to the negotiation table to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender.
Note my OP.
My analysis support in the OP support why you have such evil laden thoughts in compliance to the commands of the holy texts.
While you are not familiar with your holy texts directly you are controlled like a zombie with influences from your experts who understood the terms of their divine contract [covenant].

Btw, if you were a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, do you think you will adopt the beliefs you have posted so far?

If you were a Christian, and commit the evil acts you believed so far [exterminate Jews], on Judgment Day with your maker, Jesus and God will f you with
"WTF I commanded you to love all and even your enemies and you disobeyed my command, I will send you to eternal hell."
I repeat.

Hamas does not seek to exterminate Jewish civilians.

Hamas seeks to capture them alive and exchange them for their own captives. It is the Waffe IDF that routinely kills captive Jewish civilians.

The Waffe IDF has now killed already over 30 Jewish captives by indiscriminately bombing civilian targets in Gaza.

These Jewish civilians were not even meant to die in captivity. Hamas has offered umpteen times already to exchange them. These captives should have been free a long time ago already.

Why do the Zionist occupiers refuse to release Palestinian captives, especially the ones that are being incarcerated without ever being charged of anything?

I repeat. The Palestinians have every right in the world to resist the occupation.

Furthermore, nobody has ever forced the Waffe IDF to systematically kill Jewish captives. It is their own choice to do that.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Excel to Analyze Quranic Verses in 1400 Themes - Useless??

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:15 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:26 am
godelian wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:28 am
You are beholden to your own Soviet-style propaganda. You believe in manipulative lies and you repeat them without verifying them against anything.

Occupied Palestine will remain at war until the occupation stops.

The Zionists have always had the option to come to the negotiation table and to discuss the dissolution of their apartheid state and the details of a future successor state. They still have this option today.

If they keep dragging their feet, however, then at some point they will be summoned to the negotiation table to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender.
Note my OP.
My analysis support in the OP support why you have such evil laden thoughts in compliance to the commands of the holy texts.
While you are not familiar with your holy texts directly you are controlled like a zombie with influences from your experts who understood the terms of their divine contract [covenant].

Btw, if you were a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, do you think you will adopt the beliefs you have posted so far?

If you were a Christian, and commit the evil acts you believed so far [exterminate Jews], on Judgment Day with your maker, Jesus and God will f you with
"WTF I commanded you to love all and even your enemies and you disobeyed my command, I will send you to eternal hell."
I repeat.

Hamas does not seek to exterminate Jewish civilians.

Hamas seeks to capture them alive and exchange them for their own captives. It is the Waffe IDF that routinely kills captive Jewish civilians.

The Waffe IDF has now killed already over 30 Jewish captives by indiscriminately bombing civilian targets in Gaza.

These Jewish civilians were not even meant to die in captivity. Hamas has offered umpteen times already to exchange them. These captives should have been free a long time ago already.

Why do the Zionist occupiers refuse to release Palestinian captives, especially the ones that are being incarcerated without ever being charged of anything?

I repeat. The Palestinians have every right in the world to resist the occupation.

Furthermore, nobody has ever forced the Waffe IDF to systematically kill Jewish captives. It is their own choice to do that.
My moral principle is, all forms of evil acts [regardless of who] must be condemned and prevent in the future.

It is undeniable that Hamas soldiers had killed civilians in the most terrible and evil manner as evidenced from their own cameras.
There is no report of the Hamas authorities condemning and punishing those soldiers who killed and raped civilians.

I read the Hannibal Protocol was cancelled officially in 2016.
Israeli army cancels controversial Hannibal Protocol
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief ... -protocol/
Since there is nothing official from the authorities from Israel we have to take it what is said are merely speculations, accusations or soldiers acting on their own.
In any case,
"My moral principle is, all forms of evil acts [regardless of who] must be condemned and prevent in the future."

I ask a critical question in relation to the OP:
Btw, if you were a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, do you think you will adopt the beliefs you have posted so far?
Post Reply