What Should Humanity Strive For?

[Wizard22]

In the coming centuries, 2100, 2200, 2300, what ideals ought Humanity strive for?

[Harbal]

Humanity should strive to create one global nation, where everyone is free to roam where they please, and to be who and what they feel is right for them. A world without borders, free from rules and stifling traditions.

[phyllo]

Reducing consumption to sustainable levels.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Humanity should strive to create one global nation, where everyone is free to roam where they please, and to be who and what they feel is right for them. A world without borders, free from rules and stifling traditions.

K: and this is a noble goal, however where I come from, we call this a
utopia... and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another? what makes this goal worth
achieving and not another goal?

the question itself is a good one... what ideals should human beings
pursue....

it has become quite clear that the modern set of ideals, of pursuing money,
fame, material possessions, titles and power, are all going to end in failure...
for these trinkets, only allow themselves to become answers... in other words,
in seeking money, that is all one gets in seeking money and the same goes
for fame.. in seeking fame, that will be what one gets, fame and nothing else...
or material possessions.. that is all one will get in pursing material possessions...
material possessions.... nothing else... so, we can eliminate the modern
day trinkets of pursuing fame, titles, money, power and material possessions....
as ideals we should pursue....

so, what the thread is really asking for is a reevaluation of values...
we have a set group of values, currently, and we need to move onto
another set of values that be values by which we can live for, die for....

and if they are values that are worth pursuing, they should be at least positive
values worth pursuing... and thus we can eliminate values like hate, bigotry,
prejudice, anger, violence and values that separate us into US vs THEM... values
that unite us, not divide us.. and only positive values can do that....

so, what values can unite us? Values such as love, hope, peace,
justice, equality... to name just a few of the values that can unite us
and these values, these positive values are not just individual values,
they can be universal values, that we can collectively pursue...
and we can extend this list for years.. we can add autonomy, authenticity,
balance, beauty, compassion, community, fairness, faith, fun, humor,
kindness, learning, optimism, pleasure, poise, respect, trustworthiness,
wisdom... again, this list can be extended for years...

we can pursue these values individually or collectively.... and they will
unite us, not divide us... and I can see the antsy ones asking, so, Kropotkin
what is your answer? the current situation where we pursue only private,
individual values, those days are over....

so, what values can unite us, not divide us into ''US'' vs ''THEM...
where we can say, I am an American, you are not.. US vs THEM,
I am a liberal, and you are not.. US vs THEM, I am a male, and
you are not.... US vs THEM... What is a broad enough understanding
of beliefs that can unite us, not divide us?

I am human and so, so are you.... and an acknowledgement
of the primary value of being human... that we are human beings,
because we have the same needs... of food, water, shelter, health care,
education, and psychological needs of love, of being esteemed, of safety/security,
being a part of the group...

those values are human values and we can begin there... we are not
American's or Catholic or male or gay for that matter.. we are human being,
and that is what connects us to each other... and that connection is a crucial
aspect of being human... and therein lies the narrowing of values..
we must have values that connect us, not divide us.. and thus values
like love, peace, hope, are connecting values, not dividing values....
and that is another clue along the way... our values must connect us....
our ideals must be able to connect us.. because we human beings,
not only want to be connected but connection is a fundamental aspect
of being human...the need to belong is a necessary need of being human...
we live in loneliness if we cannot connect to others....

thus, a necessary/ideal value is one that connects to each other...

and by the process of elimination, we can arrive at values/ideals that can
give us what we need, both in a biological sense but in a psychological sense...
and the chosen value must be positive... thus I offer up this value/ideal
that we should engage with...

let us give peace/non-violence as the ideal that can lead us into
the future..

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another?

Because we depend on the resources of this planet for survival.

We are measurably overconsuming the resources.

That consumption comes from a relatively small proportion of the population. As the standard of living of developing nations increases (if it is allowed to increase), consumption will further increase.

Competition for finite resources will inevitably lead to conflict and violence.

This results in our destruction through war and/or famine.

The sooner we adjust our consumption, the less painful it will be.

Our survival is at stake.

This is not a pie in the sky philosophical problem. This is objectively real.

[Harbal]

Humanity should strive to create one global nation, where everyone is free to roam where they please, and to be who and what they feel is right for them. A world without borders, free from rules and stifling traditions.

K: and this is a noble goal, however where I come from, we call this a
utopia...

Yes, but one can dream, Kropotkin, one can dream.

[Impenitent]

In the coming centuries, 2100, 2200, 2300, what ideals ought Humanity strive for?

more radiation suits

-Imp

[Peter Kropotkin]

and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another?

Because we depend on the resources of this planet for survival.

We are measurably overconsuming the resources.

That consumption comes from a relatively small proportion of the population. As the standard of living of developing nations increases (if it is allowed to increase), consumption will further increase.

Competition for finite resources will inevitably lead to conflict and violence.

This results in our destruction through war and/or famine.

The sooner we adjust our consumption, the less painful it will be.

Our survival is at stake.

This is not a pie in the sky philosophical problem. This is objectively real.

K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?

I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?

Kropotkin

[phyllo]

K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?

I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?

It requires the reevaluation of values that you write about.

People need to be shown that owning and consuming a lot does not lead to happiness. And they have to be shown the high cost of ownership and consumption.

One can have a better life with less. Many people live comfortably in societies with fewer possessions and smaller houses/apartment as compared to the USA. So it's not an impossible task.

[Peter Kropotkin]

to continue to play devil advocate:

this has to with capitalism, both on an individual level and a
collective level...

Individually, the old Gordon Gekko thing about how ''Greed is good""
and we must think about our individual selves and pursue the goals
of capitalism at all costs... or as many have said, the one who dies
with the most toys, wins... and millions upon millions, if not billions
believe this... why should we radically change our entire viewpoint for
some tree huggers to feel better about themselves....

and on a collective level, if we reduce our consumption as you have suggested,
and I agree with, that will collapse the entire capitalistic system, as we
know it today... capitalism, as a system must, must increase at all times..
it cannot survive if it reduces the amount of production it does...
as business cannot survive on status quo.. it must grow to just maintain
itself... as the prices of everything continues to increase, a business must
continue to increase profits to make up for these prices increase.. failure
to increase growth means that a business that holds to status quo quickly
falls behind... that is a mathematical certainty...

that is why businesses are so addicted to tax cuts.. it is a way to increase one's
business without actually doing anything.. you can remain at status quo and still
increase with big tax cuts... why struggle to make a profit when a huge tax cut
will do the same thing?

so, there are two reasons why we must remain addicted to consumerism...
individually, the more toys we buy, the bigger our win.. status wise...
and we must always increase the profits of big businesses or they
will fail...taking down capitalism with it....

Kropotkin

[MagsJ]

Humanity should strive to create one global nation, where everyone is free to roam where they please, and to be who and what they feel is right for them. A world without borders, free from rules and stifling traditions.

Not this

[Age]

In the coming centuries, 2100, 2200, 2300, what ideals ought Humanity strive for?

What 'it' is that humanity wants and desires.

And, what 'it' is, exactly, is already known, but for some, in the days when this is being written, 'it' is still only 'known' unconsciously.

[Age]

Humanity should strive to create one global nation, where everyone is free to roam where they please, and to be who and what they feel is right for them. A world without borders, free from rules and stifling traditions.

K: and this is a noble goal, however where I come from, we call this a
utopia... and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another? what makes this goal worth
achieving and not another goal?

the question itself is a good one... what ideals should human beings
pursue....

it has become quite clear that the modern set of ideals, of pursuing money,
fame, material possessions, titles and power, are all going to end in failure...
for these trinkets, only allow themselves to become answers... in other words,
in seeking money, that is all one gets in seeking money and the same goes
for fame.. in seeking fame, that will be what one gets, fame and nothing else...
or material possessions.. that is all one will get in pursing material possessions...
material possessions.... nothing else... so, we can eliminate the modern
day trinkets of pursuing fame, titles, money, power and material possessions....
as ideals we should pursue....

so, what the thread is really asking for is a reevaluation of values...

Not necessarily so.

The thread title is asking, 'What should humanity strive for?'

And, the one and only question asked in the opening post was and is, 'In the coming centuries, 2100, 2200, 2300, what ideals ought Humanity strive for?'

So, it could be said and argued, what the person who started this thread is more so really asking is, 'What ideals should humanity, all human beings collectively, strive for?' (Although the 'strive' word is very inappropriate here.)

we have a set group of values, currently, and we need to move onto
another set of values that be values by which we can live for, die for....

But from birth humanity, and all, have the exact same values. Only you adult human being have misguided and misdirected values and goals.

and if they are values that are worth pursuing, they should be at least positive
values worth pursuing... and thus we can eliminate values like hate, bigotry,
prejudice, anger, violence and values that separate us into US vs THEM...

I would not class these 'things' as 'values', but you are free to if you want to "peter kropotkin".

values
that unite us, not divide us.. and only positive values can do that....

so, what values can unite us?

So, all you are more or less saying is that humanity should strive to be united, and not divided, right?

Values such as love, hope, peace,
justice, equality... to name just a few of the values that can unite us
and these values, these positive values are not just individual values,
they can be universal values, that we can collectively pursue...
and we can extend this list for years.. we can add autonomy, authenticity,
balance, beauty, compassion, community, fairness, faith, fun, humor,
kindness, learning, optimism, pleasure, poise, respect, trustworthiness,
wisdom... again, this list can be extended for years...

Why did you say and use the 'again' word here?

Also, some of these so-called 'values' will not necessarily unite you human beings at all. As has thousands of years already demonstrated so.

we can pursue these values individually or collectively.... and they will
unite us, not divide us... and I can see the antsy ones asking, so, Kropotkin
what is your answer? the current situation where we pursue only private,
individual values, those days are over....

Could what you 'see' here be of your own individual 'making up', and thus be somewhat delusional?

so, what values can unite us, not divide us into ''US'' vs ''THEM...
where we can say, I am an American, you are not.. US vs THEM,
I am a liberal, and you are not.. US vs THEM, I am a male, and
you are not.... US vs THEM... What is a broad enough understanding
of beliefs that can unite us, not divide us?

Stop grouping and labeling you 'human beings' into 'things' that you are not. That will certainly begin in the transformation of just One, and not 'us' and 'them' False perceptions.

I am human and so, so are you.... and an acknowledgement

But this is just another False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect perception.

The answer to the question, 'Who am 'I'?' is certainly not 'human'.

you could not be more Wrong here "peter kropotkin".

of the primary value of being human... that we are human beings,
because we have the same needs... of food, water, shelter, health care,
education, and psychological needs of love, of being esteemed, of safety/security,
being a part of the group...

those values are human values and we can begin there... we are not
American's or Catholic or male or gay for that matter.. we are human being,
and that is what connects us to each other... and that connection is a crucial
aspect of being human... and therein lies the narrowing of values..
we must have values that connect us, not divide us..

you have said and claimed this a few times here already, yet it has been you who is dividing 'us' here.

and thus values
like love, peace, hope, are connecting values, not dividing values....
and that is another clue along the way... our values must connect us....
our ideals must be able to connect us..

Well this thread's question is asking, 'What 'ideals' ought humanity strive for?'

So, instead of just saying, 'our ideals must be able to connect us', how about you say what 'ideals', exactly, ought humanity/all human beings strive for?

because we human beings,
not only want to be connected but connection is a fundamental aspect
of being human...the need to belong is a necessary need of being human...
we live in loneliness if we cannot connect to others....

Well this is obvious, and thus just a tautology right?

If one thing cannot connect to another thing, then the former thing lives or is alone.

thus, a necessary/ideal value is one that connects to each other...
and by the process of elimination, we can arrive at values/ideals that can
give us what we need, both in a biological sense but in a psychological sense...
and the chosen value must be positive... thus I offer up this value/ideal
that we should engage with...

let us give peace/non-violence as the ideal that can lead us into
the future..

Kropotkin

So, as I was saying and pointing out;
What 'it' is that humanity wants and desires.

And, what 'it' is, exactly, is already known, but for some, in the days when this is being written, 'it' is still only 'known' unconsciously.

[Age]

and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another?

Because we depend on the resources of this planet for survival.

We are measurably overconsuming the resources.

That consumption comes from a relatively small proportion of the population. As the standard of living of developing nations increases (if it is allowed to increase), consumption will further increase.

Competition for finite resources will inevitably lead to conflict and violence.

This results in our destruction through war and/or famine.

The sooner we adjust our consumption, the less painful it will be.

Our survival is at stake.

This is not a pie in the sky philosophical problem. This is objectively real.

K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?

I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?

Kropotkin

Once again, greed and selfishness rears its ugly head.

[Age]

K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?

I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?

It requires the reevaluation of values that you write about.

People need to be shown that owning and consuming a lot does not lead to happiness. And they have to be shown the high cost of ownership and consumption.

One can have a better life with less. Many people live comfortably in societies with fewer possessions and smaller houses/apartment as compared to the USA. So it's not an impossible task.

Humanity was far, far happier and content when they did not have 'human made things', or 'creature comforts' in other words.