Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

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Veritas Aequitas
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Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

On mentioned of Isaiah Berlin by FDP, I dig further to find out what is the basis of Berlin's philosophy.

My thesis is that Isaiah Berlin's agreement and adoption [not completely] of Kant's theory of categories can be extended to the concept of a Framework and System of Realization of Reality and Knowledge [FSRC].
Berlin’s approach combined a sceptical empiricism with neo-Kantianism to offer a defence of philosophy. Like Vico and Wilhelm Dilthey, as well as neo-Kantians such as Heinrich Rickert and Wilhelm Windelband, Berlin insisted on the fundamental difference between the sciences and the humanities.
...
In the case of non-philosophical questions, even if the answer is unknown, the means for discovering the answer is known, or accepted, by most people. Thus questions of empirical fact can be answered by observation. Other questions can be answered deductively, by referring to established rules: this is the case, for example, with mathematics, grammar and formal logic. For example, even if we do not know the solution to a difficult mathematical problem, we do know the rules and techniques that should lead us to the answer.

Berlin related this view to Kant’s distinction between matters of fact and those conceptual structures and categories that we use to make sense of facts.
Philosophy, being concerned with questions that arise from our attempts to make sense of our experiences, involves consideration of the concepts and categories through which experience is perceived, organised and explained.

While Kant saw these organising categories as fixed and universal, Berlin believed that they are, to different degrees, varying, transient or malleable. ‘All our categories are, in theory, subject to change’ (2002b, 144, note 1).
No categories are wholly prior to, or independent of, experience, even though in practice some of them are pragmatically fixed, whether by the world or by our minds or both. Rather, the ideas in terms of which we make sense of the world are closely tied up with our experiences: they shape those experiences, and are shaped by them, and as experience varies from one time and place to another, so do basic concepts.[2]
Recognition of the basic concepts and categories of human experience differs both from the acquisition of empirical information and from deductive reasoning, for the categories are logically prior to, presupposed by, both.

Philosophy, then, is the study of the ‘thought-spectacles’ through which we view the world; and since at least some of these change over time, at least some philosophy is necessarily historical.
Because these categories are so important to every aspect of our experience, philosophy – even if it is always tentative and often seems abstract and esoteric – is a crucially important activity, which responds to the vital, ineradicable human need to describe and explain the world of experience.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/berlin/#ConcPhil
From the above, Berlin can meet midway with the concept of the FSRC, i.e.

Whatever is experienced & knowledge is contingent upon the human-based Framework and System of Categories thus FSC;
on the other hand I have extended to the FSC back the FSR.
I have not read enough of Berlin to assess whether his philosophy could extend to the FSR and Kant impliedly had.
Berlin related this view to Kant’s distinction between matters of fact and those conceptual structures and categories that we use to make sense of facts.
FDP, I believe this view of Berlin's contradict with your view of what is fact?
In this case, what is fact is influenced by the subject.

The irony is FDP maintained that Rorty insisted Kant made a mistake, his recommended Berlin gladly accepted Kant's ideas.

The above is a rough presentation, thus need more details.

Discuss??
Views??
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Notes: KIV
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by FlashDangerpants »

just read a book you buffoon.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:47 am just read a book you buffoon.
Berlin's book??
I see your rage bubble is cracking.
What comments do you have on the above?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:29 am The irony is FDP maintained that Rorty insisted Kant made a mistake, his recommended Berlin gladly accepted Kant's ideas.
I gave you photos of Rorty text saying Kant made a mistake.

Image
Image

None of that stops Berlin (who predates Rorty anyway) from being really quite a Kantian. Some of us have more going on than you do and can work with a large range of ideas.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:40 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:47 am just read a book you buffoon.
Berlin's book??
I see your rage bubble is cracking.
What comments do you have on the above?
You should read one of Isiah Berlin's many books.

I got bored of writing my better-than-morality-proper KFC manifesto thing, but I would have used a set of categories very similar to the Kantian ones for that. If you promise to write one of these threads saying I must be a Kantian and into KFC if I mention the categories then I will resurrect that plan just for shits and giggles.

You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:07 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:40 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:47 am just read a book you buffoon.
Berlin's book??
I see your rage bubble is cracking.
What comments do you have on the above?
You should read one of Isiah Berlin's many books.

I got bored of writing my better-than-morality-proper KFC manifesto thing, but I would have used a set of categories very similar to the Kantian ones for that. If you promise to write one of these threads saying I must be a Kantian and into KFC if I mention the categories then I will resurrect that plan just for shits and giggles.

You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
I have already mentioned many times, Western philosophy wise, Kant is my anchor albeit not 100%. Besides that I rely on other philosophical views, e.g. Eastern Philosophy, advances in scientific knowledge. [I mentioned I took courses from HarvardX and MITx on Biochemistry, genetics, and others]

In his CPR, Kant made this bold claim which I agree with;
Completeness in this case refer to Principles not the details.
  • Completeness:
    In this enquiry I have made Completeness my chief aim, and I venture to assert that there is not a single metaphysical problem which has not been solved, or for the solution of which the key at least has not been supplied.
    #Completeness means clearness and sufficiency of characteristics;

    thoroughness
    In the execution of the plan prescribed by the Critique, that is, in the future System of Metaphysics,
    we have therefore to follow the strict method of the celebrated Wolff, the greatest of all the Dogmatic philosophers.
    He was the first to show by example (and by his example he awakened that spirit of thoroughness which is not extinct in Germany)
    how the secure progress of a Science is to be attained only through orderly establishment of
    1. Principles,
    2. clear Determination of Concepts,
    3. insistence upon strictness of proof, and
    4. avoidance of venturesome, non-consecutive steps in our Inferences.

    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient
    Pure Understanding distinguishes itself not merely from all that is Empirical but completely also from all Sensibility. B90
    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient, and not to be increased by any additions from without.
    The Sum of its Knowledge thus constitutes a System, comprehended and determined by One Idea.
    The Completeness and Articulation of this System can at the same time yield a criterion of the correctness and genuineness of all its components.
    This part of Transcendental Logic requires, however, for its complete exposition, two books,
    1. the one containing the Concepts,
    2. the other the Principles of Pure Understanding.
The above completeness enable on to have a 'helicopter view' of the whole philosophical issues faced by mankind; thus I can see where and how you are entangled with a dogmatic view and not being able to get out of its tall dark silo.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:22 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:07 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:40 am
Berlin's book??
I see your rage bubble is cracking.
What comments do you have on the above?
You should read one of Isiah Berlin's many books.

I got bored of writing my better-than-morality-proper KFC manifesto thing, but I would have used a set of categories very similar to the Kantian ones for that. If you promise to write one of these threads saying I must be a Kantian and into KFC if I mention the categories then I will resurrect that plan just for shits and giggles.

You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
I have already mentioned many times, Western philosophy wise, Kant is my anchor albeit not 100%.
Well then you can maybe stop steering 100% of conversations to your tedious Kant obsession then.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:22 am Besides that I rely on other philosophical views, e.g. Eastern Philosophy, advances in scientific knowledge. [I mentioned I took courses from HarvardX and MITx on Biochemistry, genetics, and others]
I don't care about your certificate of completion for a 6 week access course on intro to biochem, it has zero relevance in any discussion you could have here. You aren't a scientist.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:22 am In his CPR, Kant made this bold claim which I agree with;
Completeness in this case refer to Principles not the details.
  • Completeness:
    In this enquiry I have made Completeness my chief aim, and I venture to assert that there is not a single metaphysical problem which has not been solved, or for the solution of which the key at least has not been supplied.
    #Completeness means clearness and sufficiency of characteristics;

    thoroughness
    In the execution of the plan prescribed by the Critique, that is, in the future System of Metaphysics,
    we have therefore to follow the strict method of the celebrated Wolff, the greatest of all the Dogmatic philosophers.
    He was the first to show by example (and by his example he awakened that spirit of thoroughness which is not extinct in Germany)
    how the secure progress of a Science is to be attained only through orderly establishment of
    1. Principles,
    2. clear Determination of Concepts,
    3. insistence upon strictness of proof, and
    4. avoidance of venturesome, non-consecutive steps in our Inferences.

    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient
    Pure Understanding distinguishes itself not merely from all that is Empirical but completely also from all Sensibility. B90
    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient, and not to be increased by any additions from without.
    The Sum of its Knowledge thus constitutes a System, comprehended and determined by One Idea.
    The Completeness and Articulation of this System can at the same time yield a criterion of the correctness and genuineness of all its components.
    This part of Transcendental Logic requires, however, for its complete exposition, two books,
    1. the one containing the Concepts,
    2. the other the Principles of Pure Understanding.
The above completeness enable on to have a 'helicopter view' of the whole philosophical issues faced by mankind; thus I can see where and how you are entangled with a dogmatic view and not being able to get out of its tall dark silo.
You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
Atla
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Atla »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:22 am
  • Completeness:
    In this enquiry I have made Completeness my chief aim, and I venture to assert that there is not a single metaphysical problem which has not been solved, or for the solution of which the key at least has not been supplied.
Hmm I wonder, was Kant channeling his inner Advocate or was Advocate channeling his inner Kant? :?

The imo biggest metaphysical problem, "Why are we here?" for example remains completely unsolved even to this day. The only thing I've learned from all these exchanges with VA is that Kant is more overrated than I initially thought.
Impenitent
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Impenitent »

Atla wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:02 pm ...The imo biggest metaphysical problem, "Why are we here?" for example remains completely unsolved even to this day...
perfect musical interlude...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pm6tb7HkRI

"why are we here? because we're here - roll the bones"

...

that question is solved through your choices and actions

-Imp
Atla
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Atla »

Impenitent wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:50 pm that question is solved through your choices and actions

-Imp
For yourself, but this has nothing to do with the big question.
Impenitent
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Impenitent »

Atla wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:25 pm
Impenitent wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:50 pm that question is solved through your choices and actions

-Imp
For yourself, but this has nothing to do with the big question.
the big question asked individually?

or do think there is a universally sensed or intuited purpose (or universally sensed or intuited anything?)

be aware of your "framework"

-Imp
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Gary Childress »

Atla wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:02 pm The imo biggest metaphysical problem, "Why are we here?" for example remains completely unsolved even to this day.
Or Heidegger's question of "why is there something rather than nothing"? I doubt there will ever be answers to such questions. In a sense, studying philosophy is also learning how to live with ignorance. But I think studying philosophy does change a person for the better.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:46 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:22 am In his CPR, Kant made this bold claim which I agree with;
Completeness in this case refer to Principles not the details.
  • Completeness:
    In this enquiry I have made Completeness my chief aim, and I venture to assert that there is not a single metaphysical problem which has not been solved, or for the solution of which the key at least has not been supplied.
    #Completeness means clearness and sufficiency of characteristics;

    thoroughness
    In the execution of the plan prescribed by the Critique, that is, in the future System of Metaphysics,
    we have therefore to follow the strict method of the celebrated Wolff, the greatest of all the Dogmatic philosophers.
    He was the first to show by example (and by his example he awakened that spirit of thoroughness which is not extinct in Germany)
    how the secure progress of a Science is to be attained only through orderly establishment of
    1. Principles,
    2. clear Determination of Concepts,
    3. insistence upon strictness of proof, and
    4. avoidance of venturesome, non-consecutive steps in our Inferences.

    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient
    Pure Understanding distinguishes itself not merely from all that is Empirical but completely also from all Sensibility. B90
    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient, and not to be increased by any additions from without.
    The Sum of its Knowledge thus constitutes a System, comprehended and determined by One Idea.
    The Completeness and Articulation of this System can at the same time yield a criterion of the correctness and genuineness of all its components.
    This part of Transcendental Logic requires, however, for its complete exposition, two books,
    1. the one containing the Concepts,
    2. the other the Principles of Pure Understanding.
The above completeness enable on to have a 'helicopter view' of the whole philosophical issues faced by mankind; thus I can see where and how you are entangled with a dogmatic view and not being able to get out of its tall dark silo.
You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
Why don't you read up Kant's CPR and his books on Morality and show why Kant's philosophy is worthless.

Long before Kant philosophy was separated by Rationalism [crude & pure reason] and Empiricism and the twain could never meet.
It was the same with p_realism vs anti-p_realism.

Kant reconciled the above dichotomies with his Copernican Revolution in presenting a more realistic impartial philosophy.
Surely it is more worthwhile to side with an impartial than partial philosophy.

From Kant I can easily demonstrate yours is a low grade philosophy as you have revealed so far.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Isaiah Berlin, Kant & FRSC

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:33 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:46 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:22 am In his CPR, Kant made this bold claim which I agree with;
Completeness in this case refer to Principles not the details.
  • Completeness:
    In this enquiry I have made Completeness my chief aim, and I venture to assert that there is not a single metaphysical problem which has not been solved, or for the solution of which the key at least has not been supplied.
    #Completeness means clearness and sufficiency of characteristics;

    thoroughness
    In the execution of the plan prescribed by the Critique, that is, in the future System of Metaphysics,
    we have therefore to follow the strict method of the celebrated Wolff, the greatest of all the Dogmatic philosophers.
    He was the first to show by example (and by his example he awakened that spirit of thoroughness which is not extinct in Germany)
    how the secure progress of a Science is to be attained only through orderly establishment of
    1. Principles,
    2. clear Determination of Concepts,
    3. insistence upon strictness of proof, and
    4. avoidance of venturesome, non-consecutive steps in our Inferences.

    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient
    Pure Understanding distinguishes itself not merely from all that is Empirical but completely also from all Sensibility. B90
    It [Pure Understanding] is a Unity Self-subsistent, Self-sufficient, and not to be increased by any additions from without.
    The Sum of its Knowledge thus constitutes a System, comprehended and determined by One Idea.
    The Completeness and Articulation of this System can at the same time yield a criterion of the correctness and genuineness of all its components.
    This part of Transcendental Logic requires, however, for its complete exposition, two books,
    1. the one containing the Concepts,
    2. the other the Principles of Pure Understanding.
The above completeness enable on to have a 'helicopter view' of the whole philosophical issues faced by mankind; thus I can see where and how you are entangled with a dogmatic view and not being able to get out of its tall dark silo.
You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
Why don't you read up Kant's CPR and his books on Morality and show why Kant's philosophy is worthless.

Long before Kant philosophy was separated by Rationalism [crude & pure reason] and Empiricism and the twain could never meet.
It was the same with p_realism vs anti-p_realism.

Kant reconciled the above dichotomies with his Copernican Revolution in presenting a more realistic impartial philosophy.
Surely it is more worthwhile to side with an impartial than partial philosophy.

From Kant I can easily demonstrate yours is a low grade philosophy as you have revealed so far.
You make everything about Kant all the time. Kant is the only thing you have. Nobody else is trapped like you.
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