Creation - Evolution

For all things philosophical.

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Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Atla wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:30 am Age was hit as a child because of her/his inability to understand basic human? Would explain a lot..
Who knows, but he has clarified his goal here.
Age wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:55 am What 'I' am actually doing here is using 'you' posters here to show and prove how adult human beings used to think and mis/behave, back in the days when this is being written, to show and prove what to do and what not to do.

Showing and revealing how and why it took you human beings, back then, so long to learn how to just obtain actual clarity, and thus be able to 'see' what the actual Truth is, will reveal and show what not to do in the future.
This was in response to my criticizing his communication. In other words, the goal of his communication is to elicit things from us that demonstrate his ideas about people. Such a goal justifies both lying and communicating terribly on the actual topics, posts, other posters, etc. What is elicited that confirms his ideas (confirms them to him at least) is what matters to him.

Which is utterly instrumental treatment of other people. 'using 'you' posters'

His real message is not for us. He is trying to demonstrate something here that will help him spread his real message elsewhere.
Atla
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Atla »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:52 am
Atla wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:30 am Age was hit as a child because of her/his inability to understand basic human? Would explain a lot..
Who knows, but he has clarified his goal here.
Age wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:55 am What 'I' am actually doing here is using 'you' posters here to show and prove how adult human beings used to think and mis/behave, back in the days when this is being written, to show and prove what to do and what not to do.

Showing and revealing how and why it took you human beings, back then, so long to learn how to just obtain actual clarity, and thus be able to 'see' what the actual Truth is, will reveal and show what not to do in the future.
This was in response to my criticizing his communication. In other words, the goal of his communication is to elicit things from us that demonstrate his ideas about people. Such a goal justifies both lying and communicating terribly on the actual topics, posts, other posters, etc. What is elicited that confirms his ideas (confirms them to him at least) is what matters to him.

Which is utterly instrumental treatment of other people. 'using 'you' posters'

His real message is not for us. He is trying to demonstrate something here that will help him spread his real message elsewhere.
I know that, Age said this many times. That's why I kept harassing this universal-'I' from the future.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Atla wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:00 am I know that, Age said this many times. That's why I kept harassing this universal-'I' from the future.
I've noticed that when I push on a point for a while, he starts saying things that make me think 'Ah, now I understand what Atla meant that time.'

If one stays on something for a while he starts revealing things (or just making stuff up rather than admitting anything).

You know those voices in the head that torture some people - call it self-hate, or a toxic conscience, or even the voices schizophrenics are sometimes plagued by - his communication is like that.
Atla
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Atla »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:10 am
Atla wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:00 am I know that, Age said this many times. That's why I kept harassing this universal-'I' from the future.
I've noticed that when I push on a point for a while, he starts saying things that make me think 'Ah, now I understand what Atla meant that time.'

If one stays on something for a while he starts revealing things (or just making stuff up rather than admitting anything).

You know those voices in the head that torture some people - call it self-hate, or a toxic conscience, or even the voices schizophrenics are sometimes plagued by - his communication is like that.
Well I think literally believing that you're God (the-universal-self) doesn't usually happen without at least a little schizophrenia..
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Atla wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:13 am Well I think literally believing that you're God (the-universal-self) doesn't usually happen without at least a little schizophrenia..
I wasn't going there. I meant more that if such a voice was regularly experienced, if you couldn't shut it off, it would be schizophrenogenic or toxic in ways that leads to neurosis, depression, self-hate, etc. And of course such a voice thinks it is/or poses as noble. It wouldn't be toxic otherwise.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:16 am
Oh, so you are a pedophile and a terrorist who hits and kills children. Prove that you are not these things.
But, to 'you', 'I' am all of these things.

'you' just said and asserted so "yourself".

And, you have said that if one does not believe in what they say and assert, then they are a liar, or words to that effect.
You have a very limited understanding of human communication. You have trouble with what you class as non-literal, while at the same time not understanding that much of your own communication (and everyone's) is non-literal. Here you have trouble understanding the difference between when someone shows, via individual statements, what someone else is doing - A reductio ad absurdum - and a claim that nearly all of your statements/assertions are merely views not beliefs. The latter situation is a global pattern where we are dealing with someone asserting things they do not believe to be true. If, on occasion, I mirror the pattern of your reasoning, this is not a global pattern, but a specific rhetorical instance. And most people would understand the cues. Why would they? Because they have some degree of perspective on their own communication. So, when it is mirrored, they notice that it is mirroring. They may not agree. They may think I have mirrored poorly. But they get it. Of course, instances of miscommunication happen. But I have noticed that you are in general unable to pick up cue related to irony, sarcasm, this kind of mirroring and then also lack perspective on what you are doing. This kinds of limitations are often batched together in some people.
The other possibility is that you are playing limited all the time. Which fits to a degree with your instrumental view of interpersonal reactions here.
So, that last sentence of yours
And, you have said that if one does not believe in what they say and assert, then they are a liar, or words to that effect.
was a confused interpretation. But since you've now asserted it a few times, I decided to clarify.

It's one thing, say, to meet a person and they, eventually, tell you: Nearly everything I assert or tell you is a view not something I believe is true.
It is another thing to meet someone who tells you that on occasion they will present things in an ironic or sarcastic way, where they do not believe in the assertion. And this will happen directly after something they find silly. Further that given there is mirroring in these moments, those particular assertions will, for most readers, be clearly intended to be taken as positions I do not agree with.

That is an option language offers. Language also offers the use of metaphors and other tropes. These also have clues that they are not meant literally, but rather to elicit a wide ranges of effects.

Often philosophy, where you incorrectly think such language is inappropriate in general - obviously it can be distasteful to you or not - has to deal with dead metaphors, where we think we are communicating literally, but actually the language is not literal. It has hidden skewed perspectives or tropes built out of the way we humans experience.

Online, of course, picking up cues is harder than in face to face discussion, where there are even more cues to place these different kinds of communication in their categories. I certainly understand people not getting the occasional ironic statement or mirrored sarcasm.

But when there is a regular patter and even a philosophy based on the inability to notice these things, it is a different situation. It fits also with the lack of fundamental collaboration in your communication.

Of course, now that it's clear that you are here to elicit confirmation of your negative beliefs about the people of this time, who knows what you know or not. It seems extremely likely you have some communication and interpersonal deficits, more extreme than in most people. And you certainly cannot prove you lack these - just to mirror the idiot way you respond to people. You aim a judgment at them. They deny it. You expect proof. Now that idiotic pattern shouldn't be present in philosophical context, but you're hardly alone in putting out that idiotic pattern.

Now see if you can manage to understand if I was actually, flat asserting you are a pedophile.
See, if you can understand how the criticism is different given that you have claimed that nearly everything you assert here you don't believe. IOW they are not beliefs, but mere views.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:16 am Could have you misinterpreted absolutely anything here or assumed something falsely here?
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:31 amCould you have written poorly and miscommunicated?
I am always doing this. What a Truly stupid question to ask me.
I asked the question because you weren't collaborating. Your question to me makes no sense in context. If you're curious read the interchange again. And see what you never dealt with before you asked this question and how in the context of that not dealing with something, your question implies things that make no sense.

Think about you asserting above that you are always miscommunicating. I ask if you could have written poorly and miscommunicated. Here you say you are always doing that. So: what didn't happened when I reacted negatively to your saying what you did about you humans and hitting children, tough love, etc. What could you have done collaboratively there, given that you are always writing poorly and miscommunicating. When this is so obvious to you?

And it's ok. I don't expect you to try to do this. You may, but I don't expect it. You may be pretending not to understand, or you may not understand.

Now let's see if some local evolution can take place.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:44 am Okay. But, this then makes one wonder why this would be related to absolutely anything that I have actually said and written here.
It might make you wonder. You, a person. You may have wondered. Or not, given that your communication is only to elicit confirmation of your ideas according to you.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

In the hopes of evolution in response to creation....
Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:51 am Once again, it is words, conclusions, and beliefs like these that could make one wonder what has absolutely any of this got to do with absolutely any thing that I have said and written here.
It makes you wonder.
But, without digressing by adding things here, if 'we' just watched and observed what would take place and occur here, 'we' could be watching and observing these 'two' talk about 'me' for pages here.
Possibly. There are, for me, three individuals here, human beings - you, Iambiguous and Veritas A - whose blind spots while obvious to others they miss themselves. And the gymnastics you three go through to not admit this are fascinating.

And yes, Age, I'm sure you think it is we who have the blind spots. I mean, that is your view. Not your belief. I know you have no beliefs or one. There there are a lot of self-evident irrefutable truths that you don't believe in.

(see if you can guess at whether any of that was intended as ironic.)
Age
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Age »

These posts of "iwannaplatos" above here have been ignored as they have been moved.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:38 am

Thank you "atla" for confirming this.

See, here 'we' have a prime example of just how long it takes for these human beings here, when this was being written, to come to the actual Truth of things, when they just presuming or believing things, instead of just seeking out and obtaining and gaining actual clarity, first.

Imagine, if "iwannaplato", just asked 'me', ages ago, clarifying questions in regards to just clarifying what I was saying, and meaning, instead.
Yes, of course, I should have read as many of your 20,000 posts and the same ones that Atla read. I shouldn't have focused on the 'views' you presented. I should have focused on this view about yourself and what you are doing here, which might itself just be something written to elicit responses to your ideas about people at the time this is being written.

(see if you can notice any contextual clues in the above that will aid in its interpretation)
Age
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Age »

Anyway, the Universe, Itself, is always in an evolving action/reaction process, or just a continual Creation process, Itself.

Also, notice how no one has actually been able to counter nor refute this.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:44 am These posts of "iwannaplatos" above here have been ignored as they have been moved.
Excellent and needed justification. I am sure many people are following this exchange and would have judged you for ignoring them.

I'm content those posts of mine are near where the issues arose.
Age
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Age »

Anyway, the Universe, Itself, is always in an evolving action/reaction process, or just a continual Creation process, Itself.

Also, notice how no one has actually been able to counter nor refute this.

Would anyone like to discuss this here?
Iwannaplato
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Re: Creation - Evolution

Post by Iwannaplato »

Age wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:46 am Anyway, the Universe, Itself, is always in an evolving action/reaction process, or just a continual Creation process, Itself.

Also, notice how no one has actually been able to counter nor refute this.
Unjustified or partially justified assertions (views?) met other unjustified or partially justified assertions.
So, we have a set of assertions that have not been proven to be the case.
And we have counterassertions that have not been proven to be correct.
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