godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
RWStanding wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am
In our present critical environmental situation, caused by a vastly excessive human footprint on the world, we have no ‘nice’ choices. England’s population is excessive and expanding, with consequent endless building into nature’s preserve.
This is debatable.
If the population is excessive, then they cannot be fed. If they cannot be fed, they just die, which then solves the initial problem. Hence, the population is never excessive unless nature says so.
But then again, if the world population is too large, who exactly needs to be eliminated to address the problem?
I thought you just answered this, when you said, 'Nature says so'.
In other words, 'Nature will say who, exactly, needs to be eliminated to address any, perceived, 'problem', here'.
Which will obviously be different, at different 'periods of time'.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
RWStanding wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am
Mass migration across the world must end.
In that case, you would need to address the reason why people migrate. But then again, you do not even try to figure out these reasons.
Have you even tried to figure out the reason why people migrate?
If yes, then what is the reason?
Also, a natural part of being human is to discover, which happens and occurs through exploration, which travel, or migration, is needed. So, ending 'migration', itself, is never going to happen, and occur.
Furthermore, what does 'mass migration' even mean, exactly?
Human beings have been migrating ' out of "africa" ', 'on mass', some might say, for millions of years.
So, again, how could 'migration' and/or 'mass migration' ever end?
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
Personally, I migrated from the EU to SE Asia, because I do not like the unbearable nosiness of the government back home.
Okay, but does the reason for your own 'personal migration' here relate at all to 'the reason' for 'mass migration'?
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
RWStanding wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am
Making goods simply for profit needs to end.
That removes the incentive to produce pretty much anything.
Talk about this being a prime example of the adult human being, in the days when this was being written, when they, literally, thought or believed that the reason for existence was to 'obtain money' or 'make profit'.
Just so you are aware "godelian" 'the incentive' to produce things was once to assist in living, and surviving, only. And then 'bartering' was employed, which assisted in living, and surviving. But then, and very sadly and unfortunately, human beings began becoming greedy and selfish. And, from then on 'it was all downhill', as some here might now say.
Now, once 'greed' and 'selfish' is removed and once again human beings live properly and Correctly, then production of things will happen and occur not for money nor profit, but what all things are best produced for, exactly. Which is; for just assisting in helping making living, and being alive, better, simpler, and easier for absolutely every one, only.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
Imagine that the farmers stopped producing wheat, rice, and corn.
The human beings, which you call "farmer" here, will never just stop producing these things here. After all they do want to stay alive, keep living, and keep surviving.
do you think that the only reason so-called "farmers" produce things is for just 'money' only?
I know all of you adult human beings do, and produce, just about all you do for 'money' only. But, I also know that you adult human beings are not going to just stop doing, and producing, things if it means you will just end up not living anymore. you will, obviously, keep producing things that make life, living; being alive, better, simpler, and easier for "yourselves".
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
Since they are not allowed to make money,
How and why did you 'jump to' 'the conclusion', 'they are not allowed to make money'?
The statement and claim, 'Making goods simply for profit simply needs to end', says nothing about anyone not being allowed to 'make money'.
That statement and claim could be interpreted as 'wanting' to make goods simply for just 'making money' needs to end, that is if human beings want to keep on surviving, and living on, this one and only home, and homely place called earth.
All of you human beings are free to keep 'making' as much money as you like. However, if you human beings 'want' to keep living, and surviving, then all you have to do is just get rid of your Wrongly learned and misguided 'want' and 'desire', [selfishness and greed], to keep 'making more and more money'.
After all there is, obviously, no actual real reason, purpose, nor necessity to just 'make money' anyway.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
they would leave the land fallow.
While others living in concrete boxes in cities would freely love to leave also, and go and live 'on those, now left and vacated, lands'. As always human beings will just keep moving, and migrating, anyway.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
Pretty much everybody on the globe would starve.
This would have to be one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous claims ever made on this forum.
This one believes, absolutely, that human beings instead of just growing a few fruit and vegetable plants they, instead, would just die out of starvation. Could you be more 'blindsided' here "godelian"?
The natural 'want' and 'desire' to 'keep living' will absolutely always override any stupidly learned 'want' and 'desire' for pieces of paper with numbers on them or for just numbers on a screen in a so-called 'bank account'.
Adult human beings can be the most stupidest living thing on the planet but even they are not 'that stupid'.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
Of course, I would pay extra for some of the remaining wheat, rice, or corn that some idealistic farmers produced just for having fun. These farmers would make some unexpected extra profit from my unexpected tip. Maybe they do not even want the tip, but I still want the produce. How can I convince them to sell it to me and not to someone else? Given the massive shortage, that question would become a matter of survival.
This here is a prime example of Wrong teachings, absolute deception having been employed and followed, and one who has been indoctrinated into believing that 'money matters' more than even life, itself.
Saying you would pay extra for what you can get your hands on misses, completely and utterly, the whole point here. If the human species 'wants' and 'desires' to keep living, and surviving, then human beings need to stop producing and doing 'for monetary profits'.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
RWStanding wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am
As with social services, such as medical and dentistry currently in the news, which should be for absolutely everyone as needed and available, with no private elite.
If medical or dentistry were for free, then the current capacity would not be enough. You would probably need ten times more doctors, nurses, and dentists.
So, well to this one here anyway, if medical became free for absolutely everyone, then all of a sudden more people will become sick.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
So, these services would end up costing ten times more in total.
you seem to have, once again completely and utterly missed the whole point here. Which is; to stop producing and doing for 'monetary profit'.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
Who is going to pay for all of that? Imagine you do that with every product or service? Say that beef fillet is available for free, because everybody should be able to eat as much as he wants. Now people start feeding beef fillet to their cats and dogs too. It is for free anyway. Now that the beef fillet is for free, we need ten times more than before.
you might as well, literally, talk about 'red herrings' being for free here, as well.
godelian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:28 pm
I do not want to live in a country where they do too much of that kind of things. There are shortages of everything. You end up queuing for everything. The government requisitions all possible income from everybody, institutes a massive bureaucracy in a vain attempt at collecting more taxes, and is still perennially short of money. That is why I hate freebies. That is why I do not want to live in a country where the government hands out freebies. It always degenerates into hell on earth.
But, the 'love of money' and 'stealing from' the already downtrodden, and supporting and uplifting further the already 'monetary rich' generates into heaven on earth, right "godelian".
you appear to be living in a very particular part of "south east asian", or you appear to be completely blind to what is around you.