What is missing in your opinion?
Great Coincidence
Re: Great Coincidence
I don't know what is missing; I don't even if there is anything missing, and I don't know how you or anyone else can know. But maybe you do know, and maybe I'm just not very smart, which is also a possibility.
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Re: Great Coincidence
Yes, I believe in evolution as qualified to a FSRK.bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:50 amDo you believe in evolution? There was a time when there was not a human being yet things existed!Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:53 amNo, that is only a speculation and assumption which if reified is at best an illusion.
Spacetime and are particulars of reality.
There are Two Senses of Reality
viewtopic.php?t=40265
1. The FSRK based sense of reality
2. The human and mind-independent sense of reality.
In sense 2, humans do not discover any pre-existing spacetime, but spacetime is realized within a human-related FSRK then it is subsequently perceived, discovered, known and described within a FSK.
Reality: Emergence & Realization Prior to Perceiving, Knowing & Describing
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40145
What is Emergence & Realization
viewtopic.php?t=40721
VA: Knowledge & Descriptions CANNOT Produce Facts
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39925 Apr 10, 2023
Perceiving, Knowing & Describing a Thing Not Related to Existence of the Thing
viewtopic.php?t=40715
But evolution is a human-related theory from the science-biology FSRK.
There is no evolution if there is no Biology as a sub-system of scientific realization and knowledge.
Theoretically there was no humans before evolution and abiogenesis began, but the point is we cannot take away the human factor in the emergence of such a realization and theory.
If you take away the human factor, then you fall into a infinite regress.
You will be digging a deeper hole if you speculate all these are caused by an uncaused-cause, i.e. "Mind" with capital 'M' in your case.
The only way out is to manage your own self, i.e. know-thyself to avoid an infinite regress or an illusory uncaused-cause.
Re: Great Coincidence
Hmmm. I would elaborate if I knew what is the thing that you missing. So I don't know what to do and help with the situation.
Re: Great Coincidence
But evolution existed as a phenomenon whether there was a human or not. Could you deny that? I don't think that you fall into infinite regress if you take away the human factor.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:17 amYes, I believe in evolution as qualified to a FSRK.bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:50 amDo you believe in evolution? There was a time when there was not a human being yet things existed!Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:53 am
No, that is only a speculation and assumption which if reified is at best an illusion.
Spacetime and are particulars of reality.
There are Two Senses of Reality
viewtopic.php?t=40265
1. The FSRK based sense of reality
2. The human and mind-independent sense of reality.
In sense 2, humans do not discover any pre-existing spacetime, but spacetime is realized within a human-related FSRK then it is subsequently perceived, discovered, known and described within a FSK.
Reality: Emergence & Realization Prior to Perceiving, Knowing & Describing
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40145
What is Emergence & Realization
viewtopic.php?t=40721
VA: Knowledge & Descriptions CANNOT Produce Facts
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39925 Apr 10, 2023
Perceiving, Knowing & Describing a Thing Not Related to Existence of the Thing
viewtopic.php?t=40715
But evolution is a human-related theory from the science-biology FSRK.
There is no evolution if there is no Biology as a sub-system of scientific realization and knowledge.
Theoretically there was no humans before evolution and abiogenesis began, but the point is we cannot take away the human factor in the emergence of such a realization and theory.
If you take away the human factor, then you fall into a infinite regress.
You will be digging a deeper hole if you speculate all these are caused by an uncaused-cause, i.e. "Mind" with capital 'M' in your case.
The only way out is to manage your own self, i.e. know-thyself to avoid an infinite regress or an illusory uncaused-cause.
Re: Great Coincidence
I'm not asking for anything, just voicing my thoughts.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:05 pmHmmm. I would elaborate if I knew what is the thing that you missing. So I don't know what to do and help with the situation.
Re: Great Coincidence
[quote=bahman post_id=692712 time=1706207630 user_id=12593]
[quote=Advocate post_id=692694 time=1706200211 user_id=15238]
The universe never began. Space-time is just a way of describing change at a nonspecific level.
[/quote]
The universe definitely has a beginning. We should be in heat death if the universe is eternal!
[/quote]
It never began, it will never end. Only things Within the universe can be said to have a beginning or an end, and the exact change of state that is called a beginning of an end is always purpose dependent. Energy is never created or destroyed, and that includes matter which is high entropy, entangled energy.
[quote=Advocate post_id=692694 time=1706200211 user_id=15238]
The universe never began. Space-time is just a way of describing change at a nonspecific level.
[/quote]
The universe definitely has a beginning. We should be in heat death if the universe is eternal!
[/quote]
It never began, it will never end. Only things Within the universe can be said to have a beginning or an end, and the exact change of state that is called a beginning of an end is always purpose dependent. Energy is never created or destroyed, and that includes matter which is high entropy, entangled energy.
Re: Great Coincidence
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- Posts: 12807
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am
Re: Great Coincidence
You missed my point.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:09 pmBut evolution existed as a phenomenon whether there was a human or not. Could you deny that? I don't think that you fall into infinite regress if you take away the human factor.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:17 amYes, I believe in evolution as qualified to a FSRK.
But evolution is a human-related theory from the science-biology FSRK.
There is no evolution if there is no Biology as a sub-system of scientific realization and knowledge.
Theoretically there was no humans before evolution and abiogenesis began, but the point is we cannot take away the human factor in the emergence of such a realization and theory.
If you take away the human factor, then you fall into a infinite regress.
You will be digging a deeper hole if you speculate all these are caused by an uncaused-cause, i.e. "Mind" with capital 'M' in your case.
The only way out is to manage your own self, i.e. know-thyself to avoid an infinite regress or an illusory uncaused-cause.
Within the common sense and conventional sense, yes, evolution began and existed as a phenomenon regardless of humans. I am not abandoning this, but there are more refined thinking beyond the common and conventional sense.
In the ultimate rigorous sense and a paradigmatic shift, evolution cannot exist without the human factor.
Science-Biology is sustained by human biological scientists.
The realization and knowledge of evolution is conditioned with science-Biology.
Therefore without human biological scientists, there is no realization of evolution.
Without a realization of evolution, there is no reality of evolution.
Re: Great Coincidence
Good luck with pushing your belief. People can always use a good laugh.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:13 am In the ultimate rigorous sense and a paradigmatic shift, X cannot exist without the human factor.
...
Without a realization of X, there is no reality of X.
Re: Great Coincidence
Yet for the millions of years that we were completely unaware of it, it managed to plod along and slowly do its thing.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:13 am
Science-Biology is sustained by human biological scientists.
The realization and knowledge of evolution is conditioned with science-Biology.
Therefore without human biological scientists, there is no realization of evolution.
Without a realization of evolution, there is no reality of evolution.
Re: Great Coincidence
As usual I blame Kant. He said "Our experience is dependent on the human conditions, an expression I borrowed from VA." So far so good.
But then that weirdo also said "and we 100% can't know anything beyond that" where he should have said "we can't be sure whether or not we can know anything beyond that, and to what degree".
So because of that, some nutter could eventually come along and misuse Kant by saying that "not only can't we know anything beyond that, there can't even be anything beyond that, like evolution for example".
But then that weirdo also said "and we 100% can't know anything beyond that" where he should have said "we can't be sure whether or not we can know anything beyond that, and to what degree".
So because of that, some nutter could eventually come along and misuse Kant by saying that "not only can't we know anything beyond that, there can't even be anything beyond that, like evolution for example".
Re: Great Coincidence
What proof do you have for this belief of yours here?
Or, do you just believe things to be even when you have absolutely no proof for them?
Why 'should' 'we' be in some so-called 'heat death' 'now', exactly?Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:48 am We should be in heat death if the universe is eternal!
Re: Great Coincidence
So, to "veritas aequitas", it believes, absolutely, that absolutely nothing existed before human beings magically materialized to exist.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:13 amYou missed my point.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:09 pmBut evolution existed as a phenomenon whether there was a human or not. Could you deny that? I don't think that you fall into infinite regress if you take away the human factor.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:17 am
Yes, I believe in evolution as qualified to a FSRK.
But evolution is a human-related theory from the science-biology FSRK.
There is no evolution if there is no Biology as a sub-system of scientific realization and knowledge.
Theoretically there was no humans before evolution and abiogenesis began, but the point is we cannot take away the human factor in the emergence of such a realization and theory.
If you take away the human factor, then you fall into a infinite regress.
You will be digging a deeper hole if you speculate all these are caused by an uncaused-cause, i.e. "Mind" with capital 'M' in your case.
The only way out is to manage your own self, i.e. know-thyself to avoid an infinite regress or an illusory uncaused-cause.
Within the common sense and conventional sense, yes, evolution began and existed as a phenomenon regardless of humans. I am not abandoning this, but there are more refined thinking beyond the common and conventional sense.
In the ultimate rigorous sense and a paradigmatic shift, evolution cannot exist without the human factor.
Science-Biology is sustained by human biological scientists.
The realization and knowledge of evolution is conditioned with science-Biology.
Therefore without human biological scientists, there is no realization of evolution.
Without a realization of evolution, there is no reality of evolution.
[/quote]
Luckily then "human biological scientists" magically instantaneously materialized. Otherwise evolution, itself, could not have begun. And, if evolution, itself, did not begin, then all of the other "scientists" would not have evolved into 'being'. And, obviously, if all of the other different types of "scientists", in specific fields, had not evolved into 'being', then all of the realization and knowledge, in regards to their chosen fields, exactly, would not exist. Which means, well according to the one here known as "veritas aequitas" anyway, that without these specific fields of "scientists", then there would be no realization of those specific fields.
And, without a realization of those specific fields, then there is no 'reality', at all, of those specific fields.
Just out of curiosity is there another human being, besides "veritas aequitas", of course, who agrees with and accepts this?
Re: Great Coincidence
We know about the evolution of less than 100 years. Yes, evolution has been working in the human population as well regardless that we didn't know anything about it.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:13 amYou missed my point.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:09 pmBut evolution existed as a phenomenon whether there was a human or not. Could you deny that? I don't think that you fall into infinite regress if you take away the human factor.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:17 am
Yes, I believe in evolution as qualified to a FSRK.
But evolution is a human-related theory from the science-biology FSRK.
There is no evolution if there is no Biology as a sub-system of scientific realization and knowledge.
Theoretically there was no humans before evolution and abiogenesis began, but the point is we cannot take away the human factor in the emergence of such a realization and theory.
If you take away the human factor, then you fall into a infinite regress.
You will be digging a deeper hole if you speculate all these are caused by an uncaused-cause, i.e. "Mind" with capital 'M' in your case.
The only way out is to manage your own self, i.e. know-thyself to avoid an infinite regress or an illusory uncaused-cause.
Within the common sense and conventional sense, yes, evolution began and existed as a phenomenon regardless of humans. I am not abandoning this, but there are more refined thinking beyond the common and conventional sense.
In the ultimate rigorous sense and a paradigmatic shift, evolution cannot exist without the human factor.
Science-Biology is sustained by human biological scientists.
The realization and knowledge of evolution is conditioned with science-Biology.
Therefore without human biological scientists, there is no realization of evolution.
Without a realization of evolution, there is no reality of evolution.