One nation is a solution for war

[Iwannaplato]

Well, yes, there will be a conflict of interest but that does not lead to mass murder of individuals as we saw in all wars.

Social Democracy.

What is about social democracy and all people in one nation that precludes the mass murder of war?

Nothing obviously. Supposed democracies have killed millions of their own. There are civil wars.

[bahman]

all the time, some are fought more directly

you are dealing with humans

-Imp

Even if there is a conflict of interest among people it never leads to mass murder of individuals as we saw in all wars.

the question of scale merely depends on the weapon used... ask your local jihadist...

-Imp

Jihadist!? Proper education is the solution to them.

[Iwannaplato]

What we need to prevent a cruel government from taking place is proper education. If no one supports any government it would collapse.

To get everyone a proper education requires a good government. And a good education is not the norm in any country in the world. Schools do not manage to teach people how to question authority for example, or to understand corporate control of media or how even consensus experts can be wrong. And there's a reason for this: schools are designed to socialize and control their students. So, there daily goals go directly against wise and strong citizenry.

The government, other people, ...

The governments aren't particularly good at this now. I mean, sure we can imagine a benevolent government and a single nation with a great education system. But then, we could imagine that with many nations. If most nations focuses on finding good energy sources that do not require specific natural resources, well, there wouldn't be a need for war.

But this is all just imagination.

Who determines the curricd

And they are independent of corporations and ruling elites...how?

How do we keep the power players from not skewing things?

Judiciary.

It's not working now in the large democracies. In fact corporate control of its own oversight and government has been getting worse. You don't need external enemies for this.

Who makes sure the press is free?

People.

Well, it all sounds dreamy.

How do nations, all around the world, educate everyone well enough?

That could be the duty of the UN to guide nations in giving their people proper education before unification.

Well, either they are already a world government or few will listen.

Who decides that before there is one world government?

The UN.

If they decide, then they are the world government. But they're not.

No worry, many nations around the world are not tyrannical which means that people have the proper education so it is very unlikely that a tyranny will take place after the unification.

see above. Most nations cannot manage to teach people to not be affected by propaganda, advertising and the most simplistic rhetorical tricks.

[bahman]

Well, yes, there will be a conflict of interest but that does not lead to mass murder of individuals as we saw in all wars.

Social Democracy.

What is about social democracy and all people in one nation that precludes the mass murder of war?

That is proper education that precludes the mass murder of individuals in a war. Social Democracy is my favorite form of government for many reasons.

[henry quirk]

Well, yes, there will be a conflict of interest but that does not lead to mass murder of individuals as we saw in all wars.

Social Democracy.

What is about social democracy and all people in one nation that precludes the mass murder of war?

That is proper education that precludes the mass murder of individuals in a war. Social Democracy is my favorite form of government for many reasons.

What constitutes proper education?

*Who administers it?

*Who pays for it?




*put these on the backburner...let's focus on the first, What constitutes proper education?

[bahman]

What we need to prevent a cruel government from taking place is proper education. If no one supports any government it would collapse.

To get everyone a proper education requires a good government. And a good education is not the norm in any country in the world. Schools do not manage to teach people how to question authority for example, or to understand corporate control of media or how even consensus experts can be wrong. And there's a reason for this: schools are designed to socialize and control their students. So, there daily goals go directly against wise and strong citizenry.

I said proper education instead of normal education which we see around the world.

The government, other people, ...

The governments aren't particularly good at this now. I mean, sure we can imagine a benevolent government and a single nation with a great education system. But then, we could imagine that with many nations.

If a single nation with a great education system is imaginable then it is achievable as well.

If most nations focuses on finding good energy sources that do not require specific natural resources, well, there wouldn't be a need for war.

It is not the problem of energy only, the natural resource is not distributed evenly.

But this is all just imagination.

All forms of the governments were merely an imagination in one place but they are real now.

Who determines the curriculum?

The parlement.

And they are independent of corporations and ruling elites...how?

That is people who choose the member of the parlement.

How do we keep the power players from not skewing things?

Judiciary.

It's not working now in the large democracies. In fact corporate control of its own oversight and government has been getting worse. You don't need external enemies for this.

We need an independent judiciary system.

Who makes sure the press is free?

People.

Well, it all sounds dreamy.

No really.

How do nations, all around the world, educate everyone well enough?

That could be the duty of the UN to guide nations in giving their people proper education before unification.

Well, either they are already a world government or few will listen.

Well, the discussion must start from somewhere otherwise the ideas never comes true.

Who decides that before there is one world government?

The UN.

If they decide, then they are the world government. But they're not.

Who knows, maybe they will, when the idea is developed well enough and spreaded large enough.

[Impenitent]

Even if there is a conflict of interest among people it never leads to mass murder of individuals as we saw in all wars.

the question of scale merely depends on the weapon used... ask your local jihadist...

-Imp

Jihadist!? Proper education is the solution to them.

proper education via lobotomy?

-Imp

[bahman]

What is about social democracy and all people in one nation that precludes the mass murder of war?

That is proper education that precludes the mass murder of individuals in a war. Social Democracy is my favorite form of government for many reasons.

What constitutes proper education?

Proper education is a sort of education that not only teaches the students, physics, chemistry, and the like but also teaches them to have critical thinking, be aware of their rights, ...

*Who administers it?

The government.

*Who pays for it?

People through proper tax payment.

[bahman]

the question of scale merely depends on the weapon used... ask your local jihadist...

-Imp

Jihadist!? Proper education is the solution to them.

proper education via lobotomy?

-Imp

No, people need proper education rather than brain surgery.

[Impenitent]

Jihadist!? Proper education is the solution to them.

proper education via lobotomy?

-Imp

No, people need proper education rather than brain surgery.

same difference

A Clockwork Orange

-Imp

[Age]

There will be a conflict of interest when the power is distributed in several places!

Whenever there is 'power' over another, then conflict will exist, and prevail.

What will prevail?

As I just said, 'conflict'. That is; if and when 'power' over another is present.

*

Centralized power is a monopoly, and monopolies benefit the monopoliziers. This creates a conundrum.

But when all 'power' is centralized to being thy 'self' only, and never over another, then there is absolutely no conundrum, at all.

When life is on the line, where do intellectual property rights begin and end?

I have no idea nor clue as to what you are referring to here, exactly.

If one creates a better mousetrap, is one entitled to monopolize that mousetrap once it becomes essential, according to the law that Invention Is The Mother of Necessity.

1. There is no law that 'invention is the mother of necessity', and/or to even just say or believe so is nonsensical and absurd.

2. There is a saying however that 'necessity is the mother of invention', which, although itself is not actually Correct neither, this might be what you are referring to here. If so, then what has, ' 'centralized power', formed into governments, over others ', got to do with inventions, necessity, and/or mothers, exactly?

Or, must society be entitled to that mousetrap beyond the control of the creator, on the rationale that it benefits "humanity" because it prevents Covid, and Climate Change? Or because like Obama infamously said of creators ... "You didn't make that!" Meaning, you're only standing on the shoulders of society.

Speaking of that, Mickey Mouse is now loose in the public domain.

Again, i have absolutely no idea nor clue as to what you are going on about here.

After all, all I essentially said and wrote above here, which you have replied to here is;

Whenever there is 'power' over another, then conflict will exist, and prevail.

[henry quirk]

What constitutes proper education?

Proper education is a sort of education that not only teaches the students, physics, chemistry, and the like but also teaches them to have critical thinking, be aware of their rights, ...

*Who administers it?

The government.

*Who pays for it?

People through proper tax payment.

The government teaches the population, controls the content, and the population pays for it? And any complaints against such a system are routed to, and settled by, the government?

Reminds me of this bit of science fiction by Alistair Young...

Equality Concord

The Equality Concord and its dozen worlds share the dubious distinction of being the galaxy’s only genuinely functional, non-corrupt, decent-standard-of-living-enabled, etc., communist state.

(As opposed to genuinely non-functional communist states, like the former People’s State of Bantral.)

That’s because the Concord’s founders recognized the fundamental problem of Real True Communism requiring a whole set of instincts and drives and incentives and desires that are not commonly found among sophonts as nature made them. So they studied the gentle art of sophotechnology, and they built themselves some nice bionic implants to fix that problem, and create the perfect collectivist people for their perfect collectivist utopia. And then, and this is the important bit, they avoided the classic trap by applying the implants to themselves before applying them to anyone else.

It works. It may not be the most innovative of regimes, or the wealthiest, or up there on whatever other metric you choose to apply, but it does work, and self-perpetuates quite nicely.

Pity about that whole “free will” thing, but you can’t make an omelette, right?

External-policy-wise, it’s quite active both in a missionary sense (for itself) and in general do-goodery to burnish its galactopolitical image. (Both of these tend to work mostly on the desperate of one kind or another; the mainstream still thinks they’re creepy as hell.)

They do have a strong defensive military, but avoid using it in most offensive roles – probably because its collective intelligence knows that if there was even a slight suggestion that they were expanding by forcible implantation, they’d be on the wrong end of a multilateral fleet before you could say hegemonizing swarm.

Me, I prefer to live here...

Rim Free Zone

The Rim Free Zone isn’t, technically, a polity. It is, however, 49 worlds scattered through the rimward end of the Shadow Systems, the biggest bloc in that location, and so it has to be called something.

It’s not a polity because it’s 49 worlds all adherent to anarchocapitalism, of one strain or another. Which strain you get depends on exactly where you are, ranging from polite and civilized as the North American Confederacy, through somewhat less reputable but still perfectly reasonable places like, say, New Hong Kong, all the way down to pits of scum and villainy like Jackson’s Whole. You pay your money – no, you literally pay your money – and you take your choice.

But they are a big and ugly enough bloc to figure into the interstellar political calculus as a Great Power because it turns out that you don’t need to be a government to be mighty troublesome for one. That, and 49 worlds full of anarchocapitalists have a lot of guns, belike.

-

...you’d better be careful that you don’t commit your special crimes against people in the Free Zone once you get there. To steal a perfectly apposite quotation from Buck Godot – just because there is no law in the Rim Free Zone, that doesn’t mean there are no rules.

So, in this Brave New World of yours, where do unruly folks fit? You know some folks won't let themselves be educated or en-virtued by the State, and they won't pay for it or participate in a democratic process wherein they agree to abide to the Will of the Majority.

What happens to them?

[bahman]

What constitutes proper education?

Proper education is a sort of education that not only teaches the students, physics, chemistry, and the like but also teaches them to have critical thinking, be aware of their rights, ...

*Who administers it?

The government.

*Who pays for it?

People through proper tax payment.

The government teaches the population, controls the content, and the population pays for it?

Yes.

And any complaints against such a system are routed to, and settled by, the government?

By the government and people. There is room for discussion always. We need to convince people to accept this rather than force them.

Reminds me of this bit of science fiction by Alistair Young...

Equality Concord

The Equality Concord and its dozen worlds share the dubious distinction of being the galaxy’s only genuinely functional, non-corrupt, decent-standard-of-living-enabled, etc., communist state.

(As opposed to genuinely non-functional communist states, like the former People’s State of Bantral.)

That’s because the Concord’s founders recognized the fundamental problem of Real True Communism requiring a whole set of instincts and drives and incentives and desires that are not commonly found among sophonts as nature made them. So they studied the gentle art of sophotechnology, and they built themselves some nice bionic implants to fix that problem, and create the perfect collectivist people for their perfect collectivist utopia. And then, and this is the important bit, they avoided the classic trap by applying the implants to themselves before applying them to anyone else.

It works. It may not be the most innovative of regimes, or the wealthiest, or up there on whatever other metric you choose to apply, but it does work, and self-perpetuates quite nicely.

Pity about that whole “free will” thing, but you can’t make an omelette, right?

External-policy-wise, it’s quite active both in a missionary sense (for itself) and in general do-goodery to burnish its galactopolitical image. (Both of these tend to work mostly on the desperate of one kind or another; the mainstream still thinks they’re creepy as hell.)

They do have a strong defensive military, but avoid using it in most offensive roles – probably because its collective intelligence knows that if there was even a slight suggestion that they were expanding by forcible implantation, they’d be on the wrong end of a multilateral fleet before you could say hegemonizing swarm.

I read the story a couple of times but I didn't get what is your purpose for mentioning such a story.

Me, I prefer to live here...

Rim Free Zone

The Rim Free Zone isn’t, technically, a polity. It is, however, 49 worlds scattered through the rimward end of the Shadow Systems, the biggest bloc in that location, and so it has to be called something.

It’s not a polity because it’s 49 worlds all adherent to anarchocapitalism, of one strain or another. Which strain you get depends on exactly where you are, ranging from polite and civilized as the North American Confederacy, through somewhat less reputable but still perfectly reasonable places like, say, New Hong Kong, all the way down to pits of scum and villainy like Jackson’s Whole. You pay your money – no, you literally pay your money – and you take your choice.

But they are a big and ugly enough bloc to figure into the interstellar political calculus as a Great Power because it turns out that you don’t need to be a government to be mighty troublesome for one. That, and 49 worlds full of anarchocapitalists have a lot of guns, belike.

-

...you’d better be careful that you don’t commit your special crimes against people in the Free Zone once you get there. To steal a perfectly apposite quotation from Buck Godot – just because there is no law in the Rim Free Zone, that doesn’t mean there are no rules.

So, in this Brave New World of yours, where do unruly folks fit? You know some folks won't let themselves be educated or en-virtued by the State, and they won't pay for it or participate in a democratic process wherein they agree to abide to the Will of the Majority.

What happens to them?

That minority can live within the population as long as they don't harm others. They are our children at the end.

[henry quirk]

They are our children at the end.

The Money Shot.

Might wanna gird your loins, bahman. In your utopia I aim to misbehave.

[bahman]

They are our children at the end.

The Money Shot.

Might wanna gird your loins, bahman. In your utopia I aim to misbehave.

Then you have to live in a controlled area to make sure you don't harm others. Rehabilitation may be useful! If not you have to live in a controlled area.