The whole is boundless

[Age]

I don't think that the universe is the mind of a higher consciousness.

Well, based on my "Burning Bush-like" experience described in this alternate thread,...

viewtopic.php?t=41452

...I am 99.99% certain that you are wrong about that.

Well considering the irrefutable fact that you human beings, 'consciousness', a so-called 'higher consciousness', nor even any thing else, 'has a mind', you are, sorry to inform you here "seeds", just plain old Wrong. Even though you were/are 99.99% certain here.

But, you do not just have take my word on this, you can look at the irrefutable fact for "yourself" if you like.

If it is possible that the universe is the mind of a higher consciousness as I put-forth in my "Burning Bush" thread, then the "spacetime" aspect of this universe is "bounded" in the same way that your own mind is bounded.

In other words, both are bounded by reason of the limited (finite) amount of the life essence that makes up the sum total of each individual mind itself.

Why do you think that the life essence must be finite?

I don't know how old you are, but do you think that the living essence that comprises your singular and autonomous mind...

(a mind that literally did not exist until a few short years ago)

...is not "finite" relative to the billions of other finite minds? - Is not "finite" relative to the whole?

To be clear, I'm not talking about the ubiquitous essence of life itself, which may permeate the "ALL-THAT-IS." No, I am talking about the limited (finite) amount of the life essence that comprises the sum-total of the closed and personal, inner-dimension of reality of a singular mind and its self-aware agent.

you do not seem to be comprehending and understanding here "seeds" the irrefutable fact that 'a thing' has to be able to exist first, before 'it' could even have 'its' own so-called 'life essence'.

I suggest you prove 'the first', and then move along. Instead of just presuming and/or believing 'the first' just exists, without have any actual proof.

Time has a beginning. It however didn't began to exist.

Can you write sentences that are more contradictory than that?

Your own mind is like a separate dimension of reality (a "parallel universe," if you will) that contains its own autonomous spatial arena in which the phenomenal features of your thoughts and dreams exist and play-out.

What do you mean with the mind? To me, the mind is a substance with the ability to experience and cause.

Well, I suggest that your "I Am-ness" is what holds the ability to experience and cause, while the interior of the mind is where the experiencing takes place.

But it is the 'visible body', which has the ability to experience and cause, and 'It' is what is within that body that becomes, has, and/or is 'conscious' of those 'experiences and causes'.

Again, your mind

Again, there is no 'you', with 'your mind'. As well as there is no more than 'One Mind' anyway. And, the 'Mind' is not owned nor had by any one.

I suggest just understanding and comprehending these irrefutable facts, and then moving along from 'there/here'. That way you will not end up as confused and conflated as you obviously are here "seeds".

is your own personal (and autonomous) "spatial arena" in which your thoughts and dreams (and "I Am-ness") exist and have their being.

Really?

If yes, then who and/or what is this 'you' speak of and mention here "seeds"?

And, where, exactly, did 'this you' come from, exactly?

Answer and clarify these questions, then we can proceed, successfully. Until then 'you' are stuck in your own little made up 'world' here "seeds".

Your mind has the same relative relationship to your "I Am-ness" (your soul)

So, this one claims that there is this some 'you' thing, which exists, and which not just has 'its' own 'mind' but also 'its' own 'i am-ness', as well as 'its' own 'soul'.

Once again, who and what is 'this thing', which supposedly now has, or owns, these three things?

as does the bubble of the universe (and its phenomenal contents) has to God's "I Am-ness" (God's soul)...

...As Above, So Below.
_______

As Stupidity, So Closed.

[Age]

I don't think that the universe is the mind of a higher consciousness.

Well, based on my "Burning Bush-like" experience described in this alternate thread,...

viewtopic.php?t=41452

...I am 99.99% certain that you are wrong about that.

OK, I was looking for a reason!

Why do you think that the life essence must be finite?

I don't know how old you are, but do you think that the living essence that comprises your singular and autonomous mind...

(a mind that literally did not exist until a few short years ago)

...is not "finite" relative to the billions of other finite minds? - Is not "finite" relative to the whole?

To be clear, I'm not talking about the ubiquitous essence of life itself, which may permeate the "ALL-THAT-IS." No, I am talking about the limited (finite) amount of the life essence that comprises the sum-total of the closed and personal, inner-dimension of reality of a singular mind and its self-aware agent.

Yes, my essence is finite but that does not mean that the whole essence is finite as well.

'This you' now says and claims that 'it' has 'its' own 'essence'.

So, now there are four things, which 'this you', supposedly, has and/or owns.

Time has a beginning. It however didn't began to exist.

Can you write sentences that are more contradictory than that?

It is not contrary. By time began to exist I mean that time didn't exist and then existed. By another one, I simply mean that time simply existed.

And, 'this' is, supposedly, now less or not contradictory?

[Age]

To be clear, I'm not talking about the ubiquitous essence of life itself, which may permeate the "ALL-THAT-IS." No, I am talking about the limited (finite) amount of the life essence that comprises the sum-total of the closed and personal, inner-dimension of reality of a singular mind and its self-aware agent.

Yes, my essence is finite but that does not mean that the whole essence is finite as well.

But the whole (or totality) of the essence of life is indeed finite as well.

It is finite relative to the infinite void (that infamous black part in the picture we've been arguing about).

Once again here we can very clearly see another example of saying just about anything in the hope that it will back up and support a pre-existing belief.

Did you really think that the word 'infamous' would help you here "seeds".

No matter what you add to or draw into 'a picture' to depict some presumption or belief of yours "seeds" both what you added/drew and what it is depicting has to belong to and be a part of 'the whole'. Which, once again, has to, by 'Its' very nature be infinite, and eternal. This has never been refuted.

Can you write sentences that are more contradictory than that?

It is not contrary.

Trust me, bahman, in the realm of normal conversational parlance in the English language, when someone writes...

Time has a beginning.

...then immediately follows that up with,...

It didn't begin to exist though.

...it is contradictory (or at the very least, extremely confusing).

All we can do is read the words you write. We cannot intuit what you actually meant to say.

I mean, even your explanation of what you meant...

By time began to exist I mean that time didn't exist and then existed. By another one, I simply mean that time simply existed.

...is near impossible to decipher.

I know that English is not your first language, and I admire you for making the effort to learn it, but you need to realize when you are not making any sense with the words you are using.
_______

[Age]

Yes, my essence is finite but that does not mean that the whole essence is finite as well.

But the whole (or totality) of the essence of life is indeed finite as well.

How do you know?

It is finite relative to the infinite void (that infamous black part in the picture we've been arguing about).

Again, the void cannot have a geometry or occupy a room.

It is not contrary.

Trust me, bahman, in the realm of normal conversational parlance in the English language, when someone writes...

Time has a beginning.

...then immediately follows that up with,...

It didn't begin to exist though.

...it is contradictory (or at the very least, extremely confusing).

All we can do is read the words you write. We cannot intuit what you actually meant to say.

I mean, even your explanation of what you meant...

By time began to exist I mean that time didn't exist and then existed. By another one, I simply mean that time simply existed.

...is near impossible to decipher.

I know that English is not your first language, and I admire you for making the effort to learn it, but you need to realize when you are not making any sense with the words you are using.
_______

I am sorry. I can not make it simpler than this.

If you cannot explain 'it' simpler, then just maybe you actually do not know and understand 'it' well enough, right?

[Age]

But the whole (or totality) of the essence of life is indeed finite as well.

How do you know?

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything for certain.

To "seeds" it is just a matter of presuming and/or believing 'it' to be true.

No, it's a matter of using logic to deduce that the infinite void that you, me, and Sculptor have been talking about...

(as in the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless)

...does not contain the essence of life, because it is pure and utter nothingness.

But, 'using logic' one can, very quickly, deduce that there is absolutely no proof in the whole of Existence and the Universe, Itself, which has yet been revealed and thus shows that there is a so-called 'infinite void' past some imaginary boundary, nor line.

What these people could not yet fathom here is that the only 'boundary' existing is the one, which was being solely made up within 'those heads', alone.

There is no definite line/boundary where on 'one-side' there are 'things' and on the 'other-side' there are no things, as being depicted in that little drawing/picture by just one human being, and being referred to here.

It is finite relative to the infinite void (that infamous black part in the picture we've been arguing about).

Again, the void cannot have a geometry or occupy a room.

Good grief, bahman, how many times do I have to clarify that for you?

What is it about what I stated in this prior post...

viewtopic.php?p=690851#p690851

...that you don't understand?

Here it is again, because you seem to have missed it...

I told you not to get hung up on the details of the picture and the fact that the picture is presenting the nothingness as being something with "geometry," because you are correct in pointing out that the nothingness (the void) has no geometry.

And that's why I told you to use your imagination to try and picture what it is that the light barrier - or the outer "film" of the bubble - is expanding into,...

...for, again, it appears to be "something" that no matter how big the universe continues to grow, or even if 10^500, or 10^500,000 new universe bubbles were suddenly added to the mix,...



...it (the boundless void) could never run out of room for more, for it represents an existing feature of the "whole" that fully embodies what the word "infinity" truly means.
_______

Are you trying to make me suspect that the confused entity that is channeling itself through Age is now channeling itself through you?
_______

Talk about one believing that 'its' own tiny views and little and narrowed and sometimes completely closed perspectives of things overrides what is actually irrefutably True, Right, and Correct.

If you want to persist with your belief that there is an area of 'absolute nothingness' outside of an area of 'things', then by all means keep doing this, but just be forewarned that until you provide absolutely any answer and clarity as to what this separation could be and be made out of, exactly, "seeds", you are showing 'us', exactly, how the brain and the 'belief-system' work together to distort and twist what the actual Truth is. Which, by the way, the actual Truth could never be over wrote with the absolute nonsense and absurdity that you are presenting here.

Also, please keep trying to attack 'the writer' and not 'the words', as this shows and reveals the actual Truth about what you do and/or do not yet know here.

[bahman]

But the whole (or totality) of the essence of life is indeed finite as well.

How do you know?

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything for certain.

No, it's a matter of using logic to deduce that the infinite void that you, me, and Sculptor have been talking about...

(as in the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless)

...does not contain the essence of life, because it is pure and utter nothingness.

Where is your reason?

It is finite relative to the infinite void (that infamous black part in the picture we've been arguing about).

Again, the void cannot have a geometry or occupy a room.

Good grief, bahman, how many times do I have to clarify that for you?

What is it about what I stated in this prior post...

viewtopic.php?p=690851#p690851

...that you don't understand?

Here it is again, because you seem to have missed it...

I think that I missed that post. Sorry for that. I don't understand what you are trying to explain with that picture.

[seeds]

How do you know?

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything for certain.

No, it's a matter of using logic to deduce that the infinite void that you, me, and Sculptor have been talking about...

(as in the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless)

...does not contain the essence of life, because it is pure and utter nothingness.

Where is your reason?

My reason for what?

If you are asking why I am proclaiming that the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless does not contain the essence of life,...

...then it is for the very same reason that "it" (the void) contains no geometry.

Again, the void cannot have a geometry or occupy a room.

Good grief, bahman, how many times do I have to clarify that for you?

What is it about what I stated in this prior post...

viewtopic.php?p=690851#p690851

...that you don't understand?

Here it is again, because you seem to have missed it...

I think that I missed that post. Sorry for that. I don't understand what you are trying to explain with that picture.

Just prior to introducing this picture...



...I stated that "it",...

(as in whatever "it" is that is forever "making room" for the ever-expanding [93 billion light year in diameter] bubble of reality that we call our universe)

...even though we've been calling "it" "nothingness" or "void," nevertheless, appears to be "something" that no matter how big the universe continues to grow, or even if 10^500, or 10^500,000 new universe bubbles were suddenly added to the mix,...

..."it" (again, the boundless void) could never run out of room for the addition of more and more universes, for "it" represents the existing feature of the "boundless whole" that fully embodies what the word "infinity" truly means.

In which case, the picture is simply a rudimentary visual representation of 10^500+ new universes added to the mix.

By the way, from the perspective of my "Ultimate Seed" theory, a more accurate depiction of what those bubbles in the above picture actually are, is represented in the following illustration...



In other words, bahman, the universes are living minds/souls.

And the point of my argument is that the boundless void has not only already made room for what is no doubt an unfathomably vast number of pre-existing universes,...

...but it will never run out of room for the exponentially growing number of new universes (new minds/souls) implied in the theory.

Indeed, there are approximately 8 billion new universes (human minds) alive on planet earth at this very moment.
_______

[bahman]

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything for certain.

No, it's a matter of using logic to deduce that the infinite void that you, me, and Sculptor have been talking about...

(as in the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless)

...does not contain the essence of life, because it is pure and utter nothingness.

Where is your reason?

My reason for what?

If you are asking why I am proclaiming that the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless does not contain the essence of life,...

...then it is for the very same reason that "it" (the void) contains no geometry.

I am asking why you think that the essence of life is finite. It could be boundless as well.

Good grief, bahman, how many times do I have to clarify that for you?

What is it about what I stated in this prior post...

viewtopic.php?p=690851#p690851

...that you don't understand?

Here it is again, because you seem to have missed it...

I think that I missed that post. Sorry for that. I don't understand what you are trying to explain with that picture.

Just prior to introducing this picture...



...I stated that "it",...

(as in whatever "it" is that is forever "making room" for the ever-expanding [93 billion light year in diameter] bubble of reality that we call our universe)

...even though we've been calling "it" "nothingness" or "void," nevertheless, appears to be "something" that no matter how big the universe continues to grow, or even if 10^500, or 10^500,000 new universe bubbles were suddenly added to the mix,...

..."it" (again, the boundless void) could never run out of room for the addition of more and more universes, for "it" represents the existing feature of the "boundless whole" that fully embodies what the word "infinity" truly means.

In which case, the picture is simply a rudimentary visual representation of 10^500+ new universes added to the mix.

By the way, from the perspective of my "Ultimate Seed" theory, a more accurate depiction of what those bubbles in the above picture actually are, is represented in the following illustration...



In other words, bahman, the universes are living minds/souls.

And the point of my argument is that the boundless void has not only already made room for what is no doubt an unfathomably vast number of pre-existing universes,...

...but it will never run out of room for the exponentially growing number of new universes (new minds/souls) implied in the theory.

Indeed, there are approximately 8 billion new universes (human minds) alive on planet earth at this very moment.
_______

I understand what you are trying to say but I disagree with what you are saying. The void cannot have any geometry or occupy a room. In your picture, it has geometry and occupies a room. I am also agnostic when it comes to life after death so I am very skeptical with your interpretation.

[Age]

The whole is boundless

The problem with this statement is that it implies that the universe is infinite.

To me,
1. The Universe, Itself, is infinite, and eternal. This cannot be refuted by anyone, unless, of course, if and when one just changes the definition of the 'Universe' word.

2. you never posed any actual 'problem' here.

Yet we know it has a specific dimension; it is quanitifiable.

These people, back then, continually forgot that what was 'quantifiable' was only what was known as the 'observable part' of the Universe, or in other words the 'observable universe', which obviously are not the Universe, Itself.

There is evern a start date and rate of expansion stated by science.

And these 'followers' of 'science' were like the 'followers' of 'theology', that is; they would just believe and accept as true whatever was written and said in their 'chosen' books/literature.

The standard claim of science is that the Universe had a beginning, and is ever growing.

Well, and very obvious to 'us', the so-called 'standard claim of science' could not have been more Wrong nor more False.

If it is bounded then it is bounded by a void.

Well considering the definition of the 'Universe' word the Universe, Itself, is not bounded.

But please feel free to change the definition of the word 'Universe' in any way you like and/or as many times as you want to.

That is not the same as saying it is boundless since we know that such a boundary does in fact exist

Who is the 'we', exactly, who supposedly 'know' that there the Universe, Itself, is bounded and that there is a boundary?

Also, what are you, and them, using as 'proof', exactly, for this alleged 'fact'?

But the universe is not expanding INTO that void, since void is nil. The universe is expanding equally from every point ih the universe.

Here is another prime example of just how much these people's beliefs, back then, would completely and utterly distort their ability to look at and see things clearly.

These people's own made up, and not based on actual 'proof', beliefs would not allow them to recognize, see, and understand clearly that the fact that these people could only observe a part of the Universe, Itself, means that they had no clue nor idea whatsoever the actual size in the Universe, Itself, which means that they could not know what was actually happening at so-called 'every point of the Universe'.

So, claiming, 'The Universe is expanding equally from every point in the Universe', is just another one of the prime examples of when these people, back then, would say and claim just about anything, in the hope that what they said and claimed would somehow back up and support their pre-existing belief/s.

[Age]

How do you know?

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything for certain.

No, it's a matter of using logic to deduce that the infinite void that you, me, and Sculptor have been talking about...

(as in the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless)

...does not contain the essence of life, because it is pure and utter nothingness.

Where is your reason?

Again, the void cannot have a geometry or occupy a room.

Good grief, bahman, how many times do I have to clarify that for you?

What is it about what I stated in this prior post...

viewtopic.php?p=690851#p690851

...that you don't understand?

Here it is again, because you seem to have missed it...

I think that I missed that post. Sorry for that. I don't understand what you are trying to explain with that picture.

What "seeds" more or less is continually trying to explain is that absolutely no one can know what 'the truth' is while they are alive, but all is revealed when one, what is Wrongly and Falsely called or referred to as, 'dies'.

[Age]

It's not a matter of "knowing" anything for certain.

No, it's a matter of using logic to deduce that the infinite void that you, me, and Sculptor have been talking about...

(as in the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless)

...does not contain the essence of life, because it is pure and utter nothingness.

Where is your reason?

My reason for what?

If you are asking why I am proclaiming that the one and only aspect of the "boundless whole" that is actually boundless does not contain the essence of life,...

...then it is for the very same reason that "it" (the void) contains no geometry.

Good grief, bahman, how many times do I have to clarify that for you?

What is it about what I stated in this prior post...

viewtopic.php?p=690851#p690851

...that you don't understand?

Here it is again, because you seem to have missed it...

I think that I missed that post. Sorry for that. I don't understand what you are trying to explain with that picture.

Just prior to introducing this picture...



...I stated that "it",...

(as in whatever "it" is that is forever "making room" for the ever-expanding [93 billion light year in diameter] bubble of reality that we call our universe)

Here we can clearly see another example of a species that could not have evolved to have any more ego and self-centeredness. This species known as the human being here has, in the days when this was being written, evolved to a point where it did not just think that the whole Universe, Itself, was theirs but where some actually believed that it was 'their Universe'.

Which speaks absolute volumes of just how self-centered and greedy the adults of the species had become and really were, back then when this was being written.

There is absolutely nothing so-called 'making room' for an alleged and so claimed 'ever-expanding bubble of reality' for the very simple Fact that there is no 'ever-expanding' any thing here at all. There is One only, and only One, Universe, which if there is absolutely any thing, then 'it' is always just a part of the Universe, Itself, obviously.

So, whatever 'it' is, is always within the eternal, infinite and thus boundless Universe, Itself.

Although, as can be clearly seen here, this irrefutable Fact was, obviously, very contrary to the 'popular and standard belief', back in the very olden days when this was being written.

...even though we've been calling "it" "nothingness" or "void," nevertheless, appears to be "something" that no matter how big the universe continues to grow, or even if 10^500, or 10^500,000 new universe bubbles were suddenly added to the mix,...

Here we have another prime example of how and when these people would say just about anything, in the hope that what was said and claimed would somehow back up and support their 'currently' held to beliefs and/or presumptions.

This one here is now trying to claim that there are so-called 'new universe bubbles'/'new universes' just suddenly 'popping' into Existence, Itself.

As can be clearly seen here, once more, instead of just ridding "one's" 'self' of presumptions and beliefs, of which they had/have absolutely no proof for, they would rather stick to their 'current' belief/presumption, hold onto it firmly and very tightly, and just make up, say, claim, and present just about absolutely anything, in the hope that 'this' will somehow back up and support their unsubstantial beliefs and assumptions.

..."it" (again, the boundless void) could never run out of room for the addition of more and more universes, for "it" represents the existing feature of the "boundless whole" that fully embodies what the word "infinity" truly means.

In which case, the picture is simply a rudimentary visual representation of 10^500+ new universes added to the mix.

Even if your visual representation was an accurate depiction, then this still means that the Universe, Itself, is boundless. Just calling the 'blue part' 'the universe' and the 'black part' not 'the universe' in no way at all means nor makes this true.

By the way, from the perspective of my "Ultimate Seed" theory, a more accurate depiction of what those bubbles in the above picture actually are, is represented in the following illustration...



In other words, bahman, the universes are living minds/souls.

And the point of my argument is that the boundless void has not only already made room for what is no doubt an unfathomably vast number of pre-existing universes,...

...but it will never run out of room for the exponentially growing number of new universes (new minds/souls) implied in the theory.

Indeed, there are approximately 8 billion new universes (human minds) alive on planet earth at this very moment.
_______

This one's 'theory' here could not be conflated and Incorrect.

So, the point here is you human beings are 'a universe' living within 'a universe', which might make sense to some, or one, but it does not make any logical sense, at all.

By the way "seeds", although from the essential core of what you are trying to express and explain here there lays the actual and irrefutable Truth of things. But, the way that you are seeing 'It' and going about in trying to explain 'It' you are conflating your own 'current' personal presumptions and beliefs, which were Wrongly obtained along your past experiences hitherto, with the Truth, and thus just confusing your own 'made up truth' as though 'it' is actually True and Right. Which 'it' obviously is not, and could not even be a logical nor physical possibility, let alone an actual reality, Itself.

But please do not listen to a word of this and please just keep on believing what you do and keep trying to express your beliefs and presumptions as though they could be true. you are proving, irrefutably, what I will be saying and claiming about how the human brain and the Mind actually work.