bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:15 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:38 pm
Prove that the universe did not have a beginning.
The Fact that it is a physical, and a logical, impossibility is enough proof for some. However, for one who believes, absolutely, that the Universe did have a beginning, then there is no proof that the Universe did not have a beginning.
But for others who are OPEN here, even if singularity, that is; an infinite compression of matter, which is just all the matter in the Universe coming together and compressed together, as One, with all space removed from within it, then means that there is just one solitary piece of matter, with space around it, obviously, and 'obviously' because the singularity had to have expanded with what is generally called and referred to as 'the big bang', or what I would call here just 'a bang'.
Now, if what is existing is an infinite compressed, singular piece of matter and space, then this is just the shape and way of the Universe, at that moment. Now, how long that moment could have existed for is anyone's guess, but obviously this was the shape and/or state of the Universe, Itself. And, no matter what other ways, shapes, or states the Universe was in there always has to be both 'matter' and 'space' co-existing.
Now, if absolutely anyone would like to question and/or challenge me on this further, then please feel absolutely free to. The more I am questioned and/or challenged here, then the quicker the actual irrefutable Truth can be and will be revealed to others as well.
Your explanation of the Big Bang is wrong.
you can say and claim this, but being able to back up and support this is a whole other matter.
Are you able to back up and support your claim here?
If yes, then will you do it?
If no, then why not?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
We still do not have the quantum theory of gravity so we cannot describe the Big Bang but the points after.
The actual reason you cannot describe the 'big bang' is because of the Truly absurd, illogical, and nonsensical claims made in regards to that 'one bang'.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Moreover, I asked for proof that the universe did not have a beginning.
And, as i have already informed you, while one is believing something is true, then it is an impossibility for that one to see and recognize absolutely any proof, which counters or refutes what they are believing to be true.
How many times does this need to be re-repeated before it is comprehended and understood?
See, I can and will provide proof, which obviously some will see and understand, but you will not see and comprehend it.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
This is an incoherent question. The universe existed at the Big Bang point.
So, you keep claiming. But do not forget that, to others, the Universe did not exist at the so-called 'big bang', but only after 'that bang'.
So, how and why do you claim that the Universe was already existing at the so-called 'big bang'?
The Big Bang is a term that defines the initial state of the universe.
So,
What did the big bang come from exactly?
How did the big bang form, exactly?
What created the big bang?
What set off the big bang, exactly?
What was the big bang made up of, exactly?
Answer these, then I will ask the rest, of which, by the way, the answers to I already know.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
It is wrong to ask how long the universe was in that state.
Only to one who does not fully understand what the actual Truth is here.
Your question is wrong.
For one reason because my question alone here counters and refutes your Truly Wrong and False belief here.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
The Big Bang is a point in time.
Are you sure that this is what you were meant to say and write here?
Yes.
So, to you, 'time' was already existing at the big bang, right?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Time passes and as time passes the universe evolves.
Do you purposely try to deflect here, or do you really not know you do it?
Also, do not forget we are talking about the alleged and claimed 'beginning of the Universe'.
No, I am trying hard to make you understand. But as usual, you are confused.
How could you make someone else understand what you, "yourself", do not yet comprehend and understand?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
I am not saying that the universe began to exist.
Okay.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
That is one alternative though.
That is one alternative to what, though?
How many Truths could there be here?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
I am saying that the universe simply existed at the beginning.
So, to you, the Universe, Itself, was already existing, at the beginning of 'time' and of 'itself', right?
It is wrong to say that the universe
was existing at one point, the beginning.
So, you say and claim the Universe began, and, the Universe simply existed, at the beginning, but the Universe was not existing.
Because obviously if it is wrong for you to say the Universe 'was existing', then it must be right for you to the Universe 'was not existing'.
For surely, the Universe could neither be both nor not be neither, right?
Or, in that head is this actually a possibility?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
Do you have any argument against this?
Yes. But I do not need to share it because your own words are self-refuting, or just refuting themselves anyway.
Also, all arguments are not worth repeating if they are not sound and valid arguments.
Only sound and valid arguments are suffice here, well to me anyway.
Where is your argument against it?
What is it?
And where is your argument for it?
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:44 pm
Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:48 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:28 pm
I already answered that.
Which was the simply existing Universe, at the so-called beginning, just existed, but for no duration at all right?
Yes, for no duration.
So, to "bahman", the Universe simply existed for no duration at all.