Nope. Feel free to check. What I'm telling you they say is exactly what they do, in fact, say. There just isn't a rational justification for transgenderism. It's self-contradicting, every time.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:53 pmYou take the most outspoken, militant ones from the bunch and try to present them as being representative of all the rest.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:08 pmI'm not trying to get you to believe anything. I'm trying to get you merely to see what they are saying to you, and how absurd it is. You said you didn't understand: now you do, if you want to. And if you don't, I can't force you to.
Service provided: if it's not accepted, that's up to you.
Sex and gender
- Immanuel Can
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Re: Sex and gender
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Sex and gender
It's the 'militant' ones who are the problem. Same with anything. 'Squeaky wheel syndrome'. This doesn't even affect you so why do you keep commenting on it? If you aren't going to stand up for women then fuck off because it has nothing to do with you.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:53 pmYou take the most outspoken, militant ones from the bunch and try to present them as being representative of all the rest. If, as a group or class, these people are making unreasonable demands, then of course they should be refused, but you are condemning them for what they are, not just for what they might be asking for. You are making a moral judgement based on your own distaste, and dressing it up as some sort of social concern.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:08 pmI'm not trying to get you to believe anything. I'm trying to get you merely to see what they are saying to you, and how absurd it is. You said you didn't understand: now you do, if you want to. And if you don't, I can't force you to.
Service provided: if it's not accepted, that's up to you.
Re: Sex and gender
So do you think personal lifestyle choices should only be allowed when they can be justified to you on rational grounds? I think you are going to upset a lot of train spotters, bird watchers and stamp collectors.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:57 pmNope. Feel free to check. What I'm telling you they say is exactly what they do, in fact, say. There just isn't a rational justification for transgenderism. It's self-contradicting, every time.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:53 pmYou take the most outspoken, militant ones from the bunch and try to present them as being representative of all the rest.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:08 pm
I'm not trying to get you to believe anything. I'm trying to get you merely to see what they are saying to you, and how absurd it is. You said you didn't understand: now you do, if you want to. And if you don't, I can't force you to.
Service provided: if it's not accepted, that's up to you.
Re: Sex and gender
And what has my conversation with IC got to do with you?vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:37 pm If you aren't going to stand up for women then fuck off because it has nothing to do with you.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Sex and gender
Why have you ignored every point I've made on this, hairball? That's not a good way to conduct an 'argument'. Why do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's toilets and changing rooms?Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:40 pmSo do you think personal lifestyle choices should only be allowed when they can be justified to you on rational grounds? I think you are going to upset a lot of train spotters, bird watchers and stamp collectors.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:57 pmNope. Feel free to check. What I'm telling you they say is exactly what they do, in fact, say. There just isn't a rational justification for transgenderism. It's self-contradicting, every time.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Sex and gender
And what does women's rights have to do with you?Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:44 pmAnd what has my conversation with IC got to do with you?vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:37 pm If you aren't going to stand up for women then fuck off because it has nothing to do with you.
Re: Sex and gender
I'm sorry, but we agreed we had nothing to discuss.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:44 pmWhy have you ignored every point I've made on this, hairball? That's not a good way to conduct an 'argument'. Why do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's toilets and changing rooms?Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:40 pmSo do you think personal lifestyle choices should only be allowed when they can be justified to you on rational grounds? I think you are going to upset a lot of train spotters, bird watchers and stamp collectors.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:57 pm
Nope. Feel free to check. What I'm telling you they say is exactly what they do, in fact, say. There just isn't a rational justification for transgenderism. It's self-contradicting, every time.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Sex and gender
Why do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's sports, toilets and changing rooms? Surely you can answer that?Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:47 pmI'm sorry, but we agreed we had nothing to discuss.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:44 pmWhy have you ignored every point I've made on this, hairball? That's not a good way to conduct an 'argument'. Why do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's toilets and changing rooms?
- Immanuel Can
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Re: Sex and gender
There is no "choice" of a man becoming a woman. There's no "choice" of a man becoming a pumpkin, either.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:40 pmSo do you think personal lifestyle choices should only be allowed when they can be justified to you on rational grounds?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:57 pmNope. Feel free to check. What I'm telling you they say is exactly what they do, in fact, say. There just isn't a rational justification for transgenderism. It's self-contradicting, every time.
But there is a choice to become a bird watcher or stamp collector, and anybody can do those.
Vive la difference.
Re: Sex and gender
The reasons are obvious. Male bodies and female bodies are different in size and strength, giving men an unfair advantage. It would defeat the object of separating male and female sport in the first place.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:16 pmWhy do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's sports,Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:47 pmI'm sorry, but we agreed we had nothing to discuss.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:44 pm
Why have you ignored every point I've made on this, hairball? That's not a good way to conduct an 'argument'. Why do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's toilets and changing rooms?
The fact that women object to it is reason enough.toilets and changing rooms?
Re: Sex and gender
They can't be women, but if they want to live their lives as if they were women that's a choice they are able to make. I have no problem with that choice except when it infringes anybody else's rights.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:20 pmThere is no "choice" of a man becoming a woman. There's no "choice" of a man becoming a pumpkin, either.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:40 pmSo do you think personal lifestyle choices should only be allowed when they can be justified to you on rational grounds?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:57 pm
Nope. Feel free to check. What I'm telling you they say is exactly what they do, in fact, say. There just isn't a rational justification for transgenderism. It's self-contradicting, every time.
But there is a choice to become a bird watcher or stamp collector, and anybody can do those.
Vive la difference.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: Sex and gender
That's a different question. I may be free to live as whatever I imagine a pumpkin to be, but I'm not free to BE a pumpkin; and therefore, nobody owes me any consideration on the basis of my claimed "pumpkintude," including calling me by my preferred pronouns, "pie" and "muffin."Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:31 pmThey can't be women, but if they want to live their lives as if they were women that's a choice they are able to make.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:20 pmThere is no "choice" of a man becoming a woman. There's no "choice" of a man becoming a pumpkin, either.
But there is a choice to become a bird watcher or stamp collector, and anybody can do those.
Vive la difference.
Re: Sex and gender
Neither do you owe them condemnation for not conforming to "normality", yet you are prepared to give that quite freely. Just like a true Christian.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:51 pmThat's a different question. I may be free to live as whatever I imagine a pumpkin to be, but I'm not free to BE a pumpkin; and therefore, nobody owes me any consideration on the basis of my claimed "pumpkintude," including calling me by my preferred pronouns, "pie" and "muffin."Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:31 pmThey can't be women, but if they want to live their lives as if they were women that's a choice they are able to make.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:20 pm
There is no "choice" of a man becoming a woman. There's no "choice" of a man becoming a pumpkin, either.
But there is a choice to become a bird watcher or stamp collector, and anybody can do those.
Vive la difference.
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22826
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Sex and gender
You'll have to point out to me how I "condemned" them. All I said was that what they were claiming was totally irrational and impossible. And it is. And, in fact, you can check for yourself, and you'll find that it is.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:09 pmNeither do you owe them condemnation for not conforming to "normality", yet you are prepared to give that quite freely.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:51 pmThat's a different question. I may be free to live as whatever I imagine a pumpkin to be, but I'm not free to BE a pumpkin; and therefore, nobody owes me any consideration on the basis of my claimed "pumpkintude," including calling me by my preferred pronouns, "pie" and "muffin."
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Sex and gender
Then what are you arguing about? If people can legally 'choose their sex' and have 'male'' on their birth certificate changed to 'female' then what's to prevent them from doing everything women do? And this is all because of one word: 'gender'.Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:24 pmThe reasons are obvious. Male bodies and female bodies are different in size and strength, giving men an unfair advantage. It would defeat the object of separating male and female sport in the first place.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:16 pmWhy do you think 'transwomen' shouldn't be allowed in women's sports,The fact that women object to it is reason enough.toilets and changing rooms?
You have some nasty little misogynist over there called 'India' Willoughby who insists that he's a 'biological woman' (and the testosterone really kicks in if he sniffs even a whiff of disagreement). He likes to caress his fake breasts in front of women (I don't know a single woman who would even think of doing that).
Frankly I don't see any way out of this mess. Women will simply have to stop using public toilets or competing in women's sports. Not sure what they will do about the prison thing though, or women's refuges etc.
It's all pure misogyny from beginning to end. Men are delighted of course. It was about time 'those bitches' got their come-uppance.
Here's another delight. You do seem to breed them over there. 'Freda Wallace'. You might even catch a glimpse of his lady testicles. At one point Tatchell ordered him to stop drinking (which was immediately ignored) but that may have been cut from this.
Tatchell and 'Freda' have no argument either, they are both incoherent, so don't feel bad that you don't have one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va3i-_F ... micAffairs