Infinite regress is logically impossible

[attofishpi]

This argument: Consider a change in a system, X to Y (X and Y are two events).

What do you mean by X is an event and Y is an event?

Do you want me to give you an example of events?

Oh, yes please! Maybe photons emitting from electrons in two separate atoms separated by the Pacific Ocean.

[bahman]

What do you mean by X is an event and Y is an event?

Do you want me to give you an example of events?

Oh, yes please! Maybe photons emitting from electrons in two separate atoms separated by the Pacific Ocean.

Like that, like tick-tock in a clock.

[Skepdick]

Regress means the action of returning to a former state. Infinite regress means that there are infinite former states. To discuss let's move one by one to the former state. There is however a state former than any state that you assume. This means that you cannot reach to infinite former state. This means that by the reverse process, one cannot reach from an arbitrary state in the infinite former state to the current state as well. The current state exists. Therefore, infinite regress is logically impossible.

This is one of the major points in solidifying the Kalam argument. If the present exists the past cannot be infinite, however the number the axiom of choice solves this provlem. The axiom basically says "given an infinite set - you can always choose an element from it."

Presuppose the infinite interval (-∞, +∞). The Real number line.

Pick any point. Call it 0. The Big Bang.
Pick another point to the right of 0. Call it NOW.
Remove 0.

-∞<------------------- NOW ---------------> +

Done.

[bahman]

Regress means the action of returning to a former state. Infinite regress means that there are infinite former states. To discuss let's move one by one to the former state. There is however a state former than any state that you assume. This means that you cannot reach to infinite former state. This means that by the reverse process, one cannot reach from an arbitrary state in the infinite former state to the current state as well. The current state exists. Therefore, infinite regress is logically impossible.

This is one of the major points in solidifying the Kalam argument. If the present exists the past cannot be infinite, however the number the axiom of choice solves this provlem.

Presuppose the infinite interval (-∞, +∞). The Real number line.

Pick any point. Call it 0. The Big Bang.
Pick another point to the right of 0. Call it NOW.
Remove 0.

Done.

What are the points before the Big Bang? Do they exist?

[Skepdick]

Regress means the action of returning to a former state. Infinite regress means that there are infinite former states. To discuss let's move one by one to the former state. There is however a state former than any state that you assume. This means that you cannot reach to infinite former state. This means that by the reverse process, one cannot reach from an arbitrary state in the infinite former state to the current state as well. The current state exists. Therefore, infinite regress is logically impossible.

This is one of the major points in solidifying the Kalam argument. If the present exists the past cannot be infinite, however the number the axiom of choice solves this provlem.

Presuppose the infinite interval (-∞, +∞). The Real number line.

Pick any point. Call it 0. The Big Bang.
Pick another point to the right of 0. Call it NOW.
Remove 0.

Done.

What are the points before the Big Bang? Do they exist?

All points on the interval (-∞, +∞) exist.

The Big Bang doesn't exist yet. Until you choose 0.

[bahman]

This is one of the major points in solidifying the Kalam argument. If the present exists the past cannot be infinite, however the number the axiom of choice solves this provlem.

Presuppose the infinite interval (-∞, +∞). The Real number line.

Pick any point. Call it 0. The Big Bang.
Pick another point to the right of 0. Call it NOW.
Remove 0.

Done.

What are the points before the Big Bang? Do they exist?

All points on the interval (-∞, +∞) exist.

The Big Bang doesn't exist yet. Until you choose 0.

How could you reach from the infinite past to an arbitrary point you call the Big Bang?

[Skepdick]

How could you reach from the infinite past to an arbitrary point you call the Big Bang?

With the axiom of choice. Which allows me to pick any, arbitrary point from an infinite set.

-∞<-----------------------------------------> +

Axiom of choice.

-∞<------------------- 0 -------------------> +

[bahman]

How could you reach from the infinite past to an arbitrary point you call the Big Bang?

With the axiom of choice. Which allows me to pick any, arbitrary point from an infinite set.

-∞<-----------------------------------------> +

Axiom of choice.

-∞<------------------- 0 -------------------> +

But there are an infinite number of points before any point you choose in the infinite past.

[attofishpi]

Do you want me to give you an example of events?

Oh, yes please! Maybe photons emitting from electrons in two separate atoms separated by the Pacific Ocean.

Like that, like tick-tock in a clock.

Are you going to provide an example of X event and Y event?

[bahman]

Oh, yes please! Maybe photons emitting from electrons in two separate atoms separated by the Pacific Ocean.

Like that, like tick-tock in a clock.

Are you going to provide an example of X event and Y event?

The tick is X and the tock is Y.

[Skepdick]

How could you reach from the infinite past to an arbitrary point you call the Big Bang?

With the axiom of choice. Which allows me to pick any, arbitrary point from an infinite set.

-∞<-----------------------------------------> +

Axiom of choice.

-∞<------------------- 0 -------------------> +

But there are an infinite number of points before any point you choose in the infinite past.

And infinite number of points after any point I choose in the infinite future.

Which is why it makes no difference which point I choose as 0. ANY point will do.

-∞<-0-------------------------------------> +∞
-∞<--------------------0------------------> +∞
-∞<------------------------------0--------> +∞

[bahman]

With the axiom of choice. Which allows me to pick any, arbitrary point from an infinite set.

-∞<-----------------------------------------> +

Axiom of choice.

-∞<------------------- 0 -------------------> +

But there are an infinite number of points before any point you choose in the infinite past.

And infinite number of points after any point I choose in the infinite future.

Which is why it makes no difference which point I choose as 0. ANY point will do.

-∞<-0-------------------------------------> +∞
-∞<--------------------0------------------> +∞
-∞<------------------------------0--------> +∞

Whatever point you choose in the infinite post there are an infinite number of points before it.

[Skepdick]

But there are an infinite number of points before any point you choose in the infinite past.

And infinite number of points after any point I choose in the infinite future.

Which is why it makes no difference which point I choose as 0. ANY point will do.

-∞<-0-------------------------------------> +∞
-∞<--------------------0------------------> +∞
-∞<------------------------------0--------> +∞

Whatever point you choose in the infinite post there are an infinite number of points before it.

Sure. And?

[bahman]

And infinite number of points after any point I choose in the infinite future.

Which is why it makes no difference which point I choose as 0. ANY point will do.

-∞<-0-------------------------------------> +∞
-∞<--------------------0------------------> +∞
-∞<------------------------------0--------> +∞

Whatever point you choose in the infinite post there are an infinite number of points before it.

Sure. And?

It means that you cannot reach from the infinite number of points before your chosen point to your chosen point.

[Skepdick]

Whatever point you choose in the infinite post there are an infinite number of points before it.

Sure. And?

It means that you cannot reach from the infinite number of points before your chosen point to your chosen point.

Then how did I place the 0 there?

-∞<--------------------0------------------> +∞