VVilliam wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:30 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:54 am
The focus is not on 'a mind' but The Real Person within REALITY who has a mind as a tool [faculty] to live optimally within existing constraints.
That is your focus but not mine. What is a mind that we have one rather than we are one? That is my focus.
I presume you are more interested in 'what is mind'.
No. I think it is more than just presumption since I have tried to be clear about that being my focus.
Actually at this point I am not too sure of what is your belief re 'Mind' and 'mind'.
Since your belief is not typical, do you have references?
Who are the people who share your belief? e.g. "Mindism"? mentalism?
Since you did not refer to any deity, then you are not a theist?
Btw, Bahman also believe in a 'Universal Mind' with the capital "M".
But if you are not relying on the two sciences [physical and social] then you don't have any effective means to verify and justify your 'what is Mind'.
The point being is that those sciences cannot be relied upon alone. They have their place in the scheme of things but have not proven to be overly useful in relation to the hard problem of understanding mindfulness and are certainly not to be elevated beyond their ability re explaining mindfulness.
At present, the best we have in knowing reality is science [physical, natural and social] with acknowledgement of their limitations and weaknesses.
Other than the above what effective means do you have to verify and justify your belief re 'Mind' and 'mindfulness'.
So, what means or tools do you verify and justify your 'what is Mind' is real?
Note 'real' as defined which is 'that which actual as conditioned upon a human-based FSRK' of which the scientific FSRK is the most credible and objective.
I regard mind as being that which is real and the only thing which is able to verify/acknowledge anything as being real.
How? by what method and within what Framework and System? to rely upon to reach your conclusions and assuring they are credible and objective?
Example science relied upon the scientific method as the critical leverage together with other conditions within its Framework and System.
I had presumed your belief is that of the typical theist, i.e. believing in a supreme, perfect, omni-whatever God. Do your believe in this?
I tend not to believe in things which are delegated to being supernatural.
If indeed the Universe is mindful, then while such a mind could easily be considered "almighty", and certainly "supreme" in regards to ability such a mind would have compared to planetary, or even galactic minds, I have doubts that such a mind would view other minds as actually being separate from itself but would likely understand such minds as extensions of its own mindfulness.
Noted "such minds as extensions of its own mindfulness"
However, the human mind has intentionality, agency and volition which can be proven via science [psychology, biology, neuroscience, cognitive science].
Does your extended mind has something to do with this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_mind_thesis
In a way, I do agree with the above because the human self and mind are not "islands" within reality but are intricately part and parcel of reality.
However, I do not agree there is a Universal 'Mind' that is 'mindful' with intention, agency and volition on its own to the extent of creating the Universe and the like.
When you say "the mind of the planet in relation to the body of the planet" seem like 'Gaia'.
Can you provide the precise basis of your belief re 'Mind' and 'mindfulness'.
I wouldn't say it is a belief so much as a suspicion which is based upon the existence of human mindfulness, recognisable mindful-like responses in other biological lifeforms (even ones without recognisable "brains") and the possibility that what looks like emergence (through the idea of enough time and process) can (also) explain how Planets can become mindful.
So, your 'suspicion' is a "speculation" of some sort extrapolated from human having a mind.
As I had stated, at present, the most realistic basis of the human mind and mindfulness is verified and justified via science.
There is no other method.
You stated your is merely a "speculation" so we have to take it at that, until you are able
to provided a method that could verify and justify your speculation [hypothesis] as tenable.
From the above, it is evident that there is an inherent propensity in the individuals to act collectively in the interest of the human species.
Perhaps this is explainable re the same psychology as an existential crisis. Have you thought of this idea along the lines of it being a reaction to a crisis (and) is the reaction as clear and determined as you are presenting it to be?
Is this collective activity really in the interests of the human species and even if so, is it even rational/sensible/necessary that the human species survives rather than goes extinct?
I am not saying it isn't a nice idea but is it practical and does it reflect reality?
If you reflect deeply and widely on the history and evolution of the universe, living things and mankind, you will be able infer confidently the default existential crisis that emerge therefrom within all humans.
Based on evidences, the following is the reality;
1. It is evident all humans are "programmed" to survive as long as possible to avoid premature death until the inevitable of mortality.
2. All humans [and all living things] are also "programmed" with reproductive features [sexually or asexually] to produce the next generation. This imply the continual and preservation of the species.
3. From history, it is evident the survival of the individual is more likely with collective co-operation; efficient survival of the individual will facilitate the tribe and the species. If there is an existential threat by aliens from outer-space, I am sure, humans [despite all their differences on Earth] will co-operate to get ride of that threat from aliens. Agree?
4. To ensure optimal survival, all humans are "programmed" with an inherent and very strong 'fear of death' at least till the inevitable to facilitate survival. If there is any conscious awareness of a threat of death, these terrible 'fear of death' is triggered, to force humans to fight or flee to ensure survival and avoidance of death.
5. For good reasons, humans are evolved with adaptiveness of self-consciousness and self-awareness.
Based on very explicit evidence, mortality is 100% certain. Thus, this will automatically trigger the inherent and instinctual 'fear of death' program which manifest fear and terror within the human mind.
While, humans can fight or flee to avoid external threats of death, the self-consciousness of mortality is internal and one cannot fight or flee from it.
This create the inherent cognitive dissonances, i.e. mortality is certain but one cannot escape it while being flooded with terrible primal fears.
This is the inherent Existential Crisis ONLY in ALL humans [not other animals].
6. Fortunately, to avoid paralysis from fears, all humans are also programmed with with inhibitors [brakes] to suppress this inherent, primal and instinctual fears.
These inhibitors only suppress the impulses of primal fears but do not get rid of the "programmed triggers of fears".
Being human, these inhibitors are not 100% effective and it depend on the psychological state of the individual.
As such, the terrible fears from the cognitive dissonances while being suppressed, also leaked into the conscious mind but only as
existential angsts most of the time with exceptions as momentary at times or if constantly if the inhibitors are damaged due to various reasons.
7. Since the above in universal in all humans, throughout the history of mankind, humans have been seeking solutions to soothe the leaked primal fears of death [existential angsts] via different methods from the external world. Such methods range from believing in supernatural external entities via primitive religions, shamanism, polytheism, monotheism, various "spiritualities" and also secular methods to soothe the inherent existential angsts.
8. For the belief adopted, the truth of reality is not critical, what is primary is whether it can soothe the existential angst or not.
Up the present, theism is the most effective method to deal with the inherent existential crisis.
8. If yours is not theism, Your 'Mind' and Mindfulness extending to the external world is one of the many methods, you are believing to deal with the inherent existential crisis and its existential angsts.
Your views.