Eternal torment and annihilation aren't loving punishments

[Mindwave]

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[Dontaskme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtxSQ-fnACA

[seeds]

In order for torment in hell to be a loving punishment, it must be temporary (that is, it must last until those people in hell change their ways). Once they repent and accept Jesus as their savior, their hellish torment should end and god should welcome them into his heavenly kingdom.

This temporary torment would make god like a loving parent who punishes his children until they change.

How about this...

In order to convince humans to accept Jesus as their personal savior, and in order to be completely fair so that there is no mistaking what is at stake here, God should give all humans a quick and practical glimpse of what to expect if they don't accept Jesus as their personal savior.

For example, God could arrange for all children who have reached the age of 5 years old, to be chained by their feet and slowly lowered (upside down) into a vat of molten steel and left there for maybe 10 seconds, while making sure that all of their senses (especially their sense of pain) remain intact...



After that, I think it would be a foregone conclusion that they will be glad to accept the "loving offer" from Jesus to save them from his, and his Dad's own plan to have them experience that same level of pain for eternity if they refuse to accept his, again, "loving offer" to not torture them.

Granted, most of the children may end up in a straitjacket in an insane asylum for the rest of their earthly life because they could never fully recover from the psychological damage they experienced in that brief little 10 second visit to Hell,...

...but they will at least (in the name of fairness) have a better idea of what to expect if they don't accept Jesus as their personal savior.

Clearly, there's nothing bizarre or twisted about the need for a savior in Christianity's Heaven/Hell scenario, right?
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[iambiguous]

A punishment can be loving or unloving. An example of a loving punishment would be a loving parent punishing his/her child until that child learns his/her lesson and changes. An example of an unloving punishment would be god condemning unsaved people to eternal torment in hell. In order for torment in hell to be a loving punishment, it must be temporary (that is, it must last until those people in hell change their ways). Once they repent and accept Jesus as their savior, their hellish torment should end and god should welcome them into his heavenly kingdom.

This temporary torment would make god like a loving parent who punishes his children until they change. No loving parent would have his/her child tormented forever or annihilated (killed). We are like god's children, and in order for god to be like a loving parent, he can't condemn anyone to eternal torment or annihilate anyone. It says in the bible that god is love, which means his actions are loving. His punishment of unsaved sinners on Judgement Day should, therefore, also be loving.

Shades of Ierrellus?

So, God works in mysterious ways but if His ways don't include the above, He's not a loving, just and merciful God?

As for parents -- mere mortals -- punishing their children because they love them, it still comes down to what they expect of their children's behaviors in order to end that punishment. Are the parents Christians? Muslims? Hindus? Atheists? Are they Nazis, are they Communists? Are they liberals, are they conservatives? Are they racists, sexists, heterosexists?

Same with God? What exactly prompted Him to differentiate good from bad behaviors among us? Are there ontological moral truths that even God must subscribe to? Just as, perhaps, there are essential material laws that commanded Him to create a planet ever and always precipitating those terrible tragedies for the rest of us?

[Gary Childress]

A punishment can be loving or unloving. An example of a loving punishment would be a loving parent punishing his/her child until that child learns his/her lesson and changes. An example of an unloving punishment would be god condemning unsaved sinners to eternal torment in hell. In order for torment in hell to be a loving punishment, it must be temporary (that is, it must last until those sinners in hell change their ways). Once they repent and accept Jesus as their savior, their hellish torment should end and god should welcome them into his heavenly kingdom.

This temporary torment would make god like a loving parent who punishes his children until they change. No loving parent would have his/her child tormented forever or annihilated. We are like god's children, and in order for god to be like a loving parent, he can't condemn anyone to eternal torment or annihilate anyone. It says in the bible that god is love, which means his actions are loving. His punishment of unsaved sinners on Judgement Day should, therefore, also be loving.

In the end, the idea of a personal God who made humanity in his own image and wishes us to accompany him in heaven is probably wishful thinking that has also morphed into a tool for social order. Social order has likely been an issue for humans since the beginning of human societies. Unfortunately, when lies are exposed to have been lies just to keep people in line, it undermines the integrity of morality. It's probably best for parents and religious leaders to be truthful and honest.

[Flannel Jesus]

Funny that this would even be a controversial thing to say. "Torturing someone for eternity isn't loving."

What a weird world we live in, where people would seriously disagree with this

[Harbal]

It's all made up, and the people who made it up want you to believe it, and what better way of getting you to believe it than terrifying you into not daring to disbelieve it.

[Flannel Jesus]

It's all made up, and the people who made it up want you to believe it, and what better way of getting you to believe it than terrifying you into not daring to disbelieve it.

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content ... -me-in.jpg

[Harbal]

It's all made up, and the people who made it up want you to believe it, and what better way of getting you to believe it than terrifying you into not daring to disbelieve it.

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content ... -me-in.jpg

jesus.jpg (56.77 KiB) Viewed 1079 times

That deserves displaying properly..

[Lacewing]

A punishment can be loving or unloving.

Yes, good point.

Most human beings are compassionate enough that they would never commit anyone to such a horrific eternal fate -- not even rapists, abusers, murderers, etc. who have affected them or their family personally! Yet many human beings worship a god that they believe would do such a thing. This makes no sense. Such an illogical threat worked on people of an ancient culture -- but it should not work now.

People who act against others from gross lack of logic and mindless fervor (whether religious, political, or self-serving insanity) are the actual threat to, and downfall of, humankind.

[Impenitent]

It's all made up, and the people who made it up want you to believe it, and what better way of getting you to believe it than terrifying you into not daring to disbelieve it.

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content ... -me-in.jpg

jesus.jpg



That deserves displaying properly..

huff and puff and blow your house down... (the wolf has many guises)

-Imp

[seeds]

It's all made up, and the people who made it up want you to believe it, and what better way of getting you to believe it than terrifying you into not daring to disbelieve it.

That deserves displaying properly..

Right you are, Harbal.

I mean, why provide a link to a picture that works as a perfect accompaniment to my prior (children dipped in a vat of molten steel) post, when you can simply display it right here in the thread.

Personally, I feel that the more ways people can be shown the utterly absurd implications of the ("old paradigm") mythology they worship and hold to be true, then perhaps the sooner it can be replaced with something new and more logical.

In other words, replaced with something that doesn't imply that the Creator of the unfathomable order and beauty of the universe (if such a Being exists), along with his "loving" son, are, in fact, the absolute evilest duo* in all of reality.

*(make that evilest "trio" in all of reality, if you include the "holy ghost")
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[phyllo]

A punishment can be loving or unloving. An example of a loving punishment would be a loving parent punishing his/her child until that child learns his/her lesson and changes. An example of an unloving punishment would be god condemning unsaved sinners to eternal torment in hell. In order for torment in hell to be a loving punishment, it must be temporary (that is, it must last until those sinners in hell change their ways). Once they repent and accept Jesus as their savior, their hellish torment should end and god should welcome them into his heavenly kingdom.

This temporary torment would make god like a loving parent who punishes his children until they change. No loving parent would have his/her child tormented forever or annihilated. We are like god's children, and in order for god to be like a loving parent, he can't condemn anyone to eternal torment or annihilate anyone. It says in the bible that god is love, which means his actions are loving. His punishment of unsaved sinners on Judgement Day should, therefore, also be loving.

Do you realize that there are many Christian interpretations of what happens in the afterlife?

Eternal torment in hell, for sinners, is only one.

Others are :

Sinners are eternally punished in hell but that punishment consists only of separation from God.

Sinners are temporarily punished in a fair and appropriate manner.

Sinners get no punishment, they simply cease to exist.

Nobody is punished.