Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:11 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:58 pm
That's an incredibly easy question to answer. I think Israel should stop trying to get back at Hamas by blowing the fuck out of random Palestinians.
"Random Palestinians?"
It seems to me that all evidence is that they're minimizing civilian casualties, even among those who danced in the streets when they were being kidnapped, raped and massacred. But maybe you have evidence I don't know. What's your evidence?
My mistake. Gravity bombs and "guided" projectiles carrying explosives don't kill innocent civilians.
They do, of course. That's what we call a "war." And all wars are bad. So we can agree on that.
If they want to beat Hamas, then do it another way.
It's clear to me that destroying Gaza is not going to solve anything.
Well, that's not what Israel is apparently doing. They seem to be destroying the tunnels while doing their best not to kill civilians. I saw today film of them sending supplies to civilians, and also flooding terrorist tunnels, which is sure better than bombing them out. It seems about all one could do, given a war. Not that anybody wants to be given a war, of course.
But Hamas has Israel in an awful "Catch-22," a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. If they stop, Hamas wins and kills more of them again -- they have declared utter commitment to genocide, as have many of their followers around the world. If they go ahead and root out Hamas, some civilians are going to die in the fighting -- some at Israeli hands, but many at the hands of Hamas, who are using them as cannon-fodder and human shields.
And I'd love to say that Hamas is only speaking for Hamas: but all the Palestinians who have time after time rejected any two-state solution, and the civilians who danced in the streets, or the ones who chant "from the river to the sea," meaning, "kill all the Jews and eliminate Israel," or who chanted "gas the Jews" during their recent marches, are not official members of Hamas. Nor are the Iranian Islamists, who are only too happy, it seems, to fund the killing of the Jews. What's to be done about them all using the Gazans as pawns?
So again, what is this "other way" you propose they should act? I'd be very interested if you've got an alternative for them. I'm sure they would be, too.
Maybe offering some Gazans Israeli citizenship? That's hard, but it's better than killing people. But given the hatred they already had for the Jews, how can you now trust them to behave themselves and honour their new citizenship?
As a Christian, I deplore war. But the Gazans are mostly Muslims, and they don't. And the current Israeli government is secular, and they don't -- although they seem to have more of a conscience than Hamas, at least. What's your proposal?