This clearly answers the question: "Why does mathematics appear to have both discovered and invented qualities?"

[Iwannaplato]

The number system is clearly a message that is being incorrectly interpreted, and that incorrect interpretation IS MATHEMATICS. Regardless of you not believing that the message is expressing Samsara, the point is that the state of MESSAGE having been discovered and not yet correctly interpreted, is a state that EXHIBITS BOTH DISCOVERED AND INVENTED QUALITIES.

The number system is the message and mathematics, starting at addition/counting, is the ongoing attempt to correctly interpret the message by continuing to follow the initial incorrect interpretation.

So if the Theory Of Enlightenment is a crackpot theory, how is it that its description of mathematics expresses a state that exhibits both discovered and invented qualities? The 360 page 'proof' that 1+1=2 offers no resolution to why math exhibits both discovered and invented qualities, and it is so complicated that 99.9999 % of humanity would have no idea what it means.

Occams Razor has my theory, you know, the one that shows how math can actually exist in a superposition of being both discovered and invented, as the correct interpretation of what the number system and mathematics are.

And here it sits in a philosophy forum, in the math section, being completely ignored. It is being ignored because it shows how EVERY0NE has been wrong, THE WHOLE TIME. This is the final Truth and no one here is capable of seeing it.

Academia is an echo chamber of delusion. It is incapable of discerning Truth.

Wait, you conflate Philosophy Now with academia? Weird.

But anyway, academia has discussed this issue and arrived at many conclusions.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... F1409BAD36
https://www.sfu.ca/~rpyke/cafe/livio.pdf
and there are hundreds more.

For someone who spends most of his time not thinking, you have the most thinky, thinky, mental verbiage, monkey mind, mental gynastics ways of coming to spiritual points.

It's like some guy doing sudoko to pick the right moment to try to hold hands with a woman he's attracted to. Like using a calculator, a laser and a large protractor to figure out where to stand to catch a football and the whole damn game is over before the guy realizes he just needs to trust his body and let his body learn over time. Like some guy telling his wife to hold the baby in, while she's crowning, because he spent a month calculating the right birth second and if she could just delay another couple of days.

Fanatic left brain posing and right or balanced brain.

And you reek of ego every time you and your ideas aren't put on a pedastal...pouting and dissing and flailing around.

Grow up.

[roydop]

Or maybe Occam's Razor says that you never were a rare genius to begin with, and through years of practicing non-thinking, you also diminished your ability to see and critically evaluate even fairly simple things.

So you can't see that the question "why does mathemathics seem to have both discovered and invented qualities" can have many possible answers, even multiple categories of answers. You only see one possible answer, are totally stuck on it, but apparently can't even expound on it.

And that's why you aren't on CNN breaking news?

No, this is genius and you can't recognize it.

[roydop]

The number system is clearly a message that is being incorrectly interpreted, and that incorrect interpretation IS MATHEMATICS. Regardless of you not believing that the message is expressing Samsara, the point is that the state of MESSAGE having been discovered and not yet correctly interpreted, is a state that EXHIBITS BOTH DISCOVERED AND INVENTED QUALITIES.

The number system is the message and mathematics, starting at addition/counting, is the ongoing attempt to correctly interpret the message by continuing to follow the initial incorrect interpretation.

So if the Theory Of Enlightenment is a crackpot theory, how is it that its description of mathematics expresses a state that exhibits both discovered and invented qualities? The 360 page 'proof' that 1+1=2 offers no resolution to why math exhibits both discovered and invented qualities, and it is so complicated that 99.9999 % of humanity would have no idea what it means.

Occams Razor has my theory, you know, the one that shows how math can actually exist in a superposition of being both discovered and invented, as the correct interpretation of what the number system and mathematics are.

And here it sits in a philosophy forum, in the math section, being completely ignored. It is being ignored because it shows how EVERY0NE has been wrong, THE WHOLE TIME. This is the final Truth and no one here is capable of seeing it.

Academia is an echo chamber of delusion. It is incapable of discerning Truth.

Wait, you conflate Philosophy Now with academia? Weird.

But anyway, academia has discussed this issue and arrived at many conclusions.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... F1409BAD36
https://www.sfu.ca/~rpyke/cafe/livio.pdf
and there are hundreds more.

For someone who spends most of his time not thinking, you have the most thinky, thinky, mental verbiage, monkey mind, mental gynastics ways of coming to spiritual points.

It's like some guy doing sudoko to pick the right moment to try to hold hands with a woman he's attracted to. Like using a calculator, a laser and a large protractor to figure out where to stand to catch a football and the whole damn game is over before the guy realizes he just needs to trust his body and let his body learn over time. Like some guy telling his wife to hold the baby in, while she's crowning, because he spent a month calculating the right birth second and if she could just delay another couple of days.

Fanatic left brain posing and right or balanced brain.

And you reek of ego every time you and your ideas aren't put on a pedastal...pouting and dissing and flailing around.

Grow up.

That paper didn't explain anything, it's just more opinion.

A resolution to the question: "Why does mathematics exhibit both discovered and invented qualities?" naturally emerges from the description of mathematics (what it is) presented by my theory.

Explain to me why it's impossible for the number system to be a message and mathematics the incorrect interpretation of the message. This is what my theory states it is, and that state just happens to express a state that is in a superposition of being both discovered and invented.

Try to understand what that last sentence says. I know what the meaning of the numbers is. It's a message. That message has been misinterpreted at "counting"/"addition"/"quantity". The continuing expansion of mathematics into ever-increasing levels of abstraction is the attempt to correctly interpret the message by continuing to follow the initial incorrect interpretation.

It's all here available for you to understand and SEE.

But I have a feeling you prefer to remain blind

[Iwannaplato]

There are plenty of teachers, guru, masters with pretty much the same core message you have. And thousands of these have more people interested in their message and speeches. That's in English.

But keep on blaming academia and close-minded people.

That blaming others adds to your aura of spiritual attainment.

[Atla]

No, this is genius and you can't recognize it.

Sorry but I beat you to it. Cats make little cat footprints in the sand with their paws. Anyone who isn't an idiot will realize that mathemathics is a message containing the locations of all the cat footprints throughout history, everywhere. And all those cat footprints form a matrix, in which the secret to human immortality is also encoded, they just started trying to to crack that secret using the best supercomputers in the world.

I was just on the phone with multiple world leaders who congratulated me for saving humanity. For now we decided to keep it secret, but this will all soon be revealed, watch the news.

[roydop]

No, this is genius and you can't recognize it.

Sorry but I beat you to it. Cats make little cat footprints in the sand with their paws. Anyone who isn't an idiot will realize that mathemathics is a message containing the locations of all the cat footprints throughout history, everywhere. And all those cat footprints form a matrix, in which the secret to human immortality is also encoded, they just started trying to to crack that secret using the best supercomputers in the world.

I was just on the phone with multiple world leaders who congratulated me for saving humanity. For now we decided to keep it secret, but this will all soon be revealed, watch the news.

Explain to me how the description of mathematics presented by my theory, expresses a state that exhibits both discovered and invented qualities. If it's a crackpot theory then you wouldn't expect it's result to be a resolution to the greatest philosophical question about mathematics.

You simply refuse to see what is obvious because it destroys your entire world view. Then you mock it out of fear. Your loss.

[roydop]

There are plenty of teachers, guru, masters with pretty much the same core message you have. And thousands of these have more people interested in their message and speeches. That's in English.

But keep on blaming academia and close-minded people.

That blaming others adds to your aura of spiritual attainment.

There's no blame, there's only revealing what's false. That turns out to be all of mathematics starting at counting/addition. But you and pretty much everyone else is too programmed to see that the empire has no clothes

[Skepdick]

There's no blame, there's only revealing what's false. That turns out to be all of mathematics starting at counting/addition. But you and pretty much everyone else is too programmed to see that the empire has no clothes

Truth and falsehood are simply not in frame when we talk about Mathematics.

Given certain axioms certain theorems hold.
Given certain desired theorems; a number of axiom-schemas can satisfy them.

[roydop]

When I say that mathematics is "false" or "incorrect", I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying it works exactly as a tool that pulls Awareness away from Reality and into delusion.

Mathematics, the whole thing starting at "quantity"/"counting"/"addition", is an incorrect interpretation of the message being expressed by the natural numbers. This is how it is wrong. All.of it. The entire system

[Iwannaplato]

There is a wonderful book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. A true story by a psychologist who brought together three men, each of whom claimed to be Jesus. He wondered if the presence of the other two would help any of them. It did seem at times to bring some self-awareness to one of two of them, but ultimately it has little lasting effect.

But for our PN version, at least for a moment I gather....

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy.

•I am the legitimate owner of the universe.

And it is just these different meanings and definitions that 'you', human beings, have and use, why 'you', adult human beings, were still somewhat lost and confused, back in the days when this was being written.

[Age]

There is a wonderful book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. A true story by a psychologist who brought together three men, each of whom claimed to be Jesus. He wondered if the presence of the other two would help any of them. It did seem at times to bring some self-awareness to one of two of them, but ultimately it has little lasting effect.

But for our PN version, at least for a moment I gather....

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy.

•I am the legitimate owner of the universe.

And it is just these different meanings and definitions that 'you', human beings, have and use, why 'you', adult human beings, were still somewhat lost and confused, back in the days when this was being written.

EITHER 'you' ACCEPT that 'you', human beings, in the days are somewhat CONFUSED, and thus LOST, as well, OR, 'you' BELIEVE that 'you' are NOT LOST and CONFUSED, AT ALL, and so KNOW EVERY 'thing' there is TO KNOW.

I could now ASKED you, 'Which one here is OBVIOUSLY ACTUALLY True?', but, OBVIOUSLY, 'you' do NOT have the COURAGE to ANSWER 'this QUESTION', Honestly and OPENLY.

Now, for those who ARE Truly OPEN and Honest, the ACTUAL ANSWER is VERY EASY to SEE, and KNOW.

And, the VERY REASON WHY 'you', human beings, are STILL somewhat LOST and CONFUSED IS BECAUSE of the VERY REASON I EXPLAINED above here.

[Age]

There is a wonderful book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. A true story by a psychologist who brought together three men, each of whom claimed to be Jesus. He wondered if the presence of the other two would help any of them. It did seem at times to bring some self-awareness to one of two of them, but ultimately it has little lasting effect.

But for our PN version, at least for a moment I gather....

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy.

•I am the legitimate owner of the universe.

And it is just these different meanings and definitions that 'you', human beings, have and use, why 'you', adult human beings, were still somewhat lost and confused, back in the days when this was being written.

Here we have ANOTHER example of 'one' who thinks, or BELIEVES, that 'it' is BETTER than "others". 'That one' here being "iwannaplato", itself.

As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED by the way 'it' WRITES and SPEAKS here, above.

[Atla]

There is a wonderful book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. A true story by a psychologist who brought together three men, each of whom claimed to be Jesus. He wondered if the presence of the other two would help any of them. It did seem at times to bring some self-awareness to one of two of them, but ultimately it has little lasting effect.

But for our PN version, at least for a moment I gather....

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy.

•I am the legitimate owner of the universe.

And it is just these different meanings and definitions that 'you', human beings, have and use, why 'you', adult human beings, were still somewhat lost and confused, back in the days when this was being written.

I've been perplexed by this phenomenon for a while now. We've had and still have quite a number of major revolutionaries, unrecognized geniuses and single greatest philosophers of all time, on this forum. But they somehow almost always end up completely ignoring one another after a few short exchanges. And they don't feel any need to challenge one another. It's like an instinct or understanding they all share, and I don't know what it is.

[roydop]

There is a wonderful book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. A true story by a psychologist who brought together three men, each of whom claimed to be Jesus. He wondered if the presence of the other two would help any of them. It did seem at times to bring some self-awareness to one of two of them, but ultimately it has little lasting effect.

But for our PN version, at least for a moment I gather....

I am the greatest philosopher to ever live because my theory concludes/transcends philosophy.

•I am the legitimate owner of the universe.

And it is just these different meanings and definitions that 'you', human beings, have and use, why 'you', adult human beings, were still somewhat lost and confused, back in the days when this was being written.

I've been perplexed by this phenomenon for a while now. We've had and still have quite a number of major revolutionaries, unrecognized geniuses and single greatest philosophers of all time, on this forum. But they somehow almost always end up completely ignoring one another after a few short exchanges. And they don't feel any need to challenge one another. It's like an instinct or understanding they all share, and I don't know what it is.

Explain to me how the description of mathematics (why it exists and what it's doing) presented by my theory, DOESN'T resolve the question: "Why does mathematics exhibit both discovered and invented qualities in superposition?"

My theory resolves the deepest philosophical question about mathematics, but due to the deep state of delusion that ALL OF HUMANITY is under, people are unable to SEE and accept that which is obvious

I'm challenging you to prove that my theory doesn't present a resolution to the question: "Why does mathematics exhibit both discovered and invented qualities?" If you can't then it does. If it does, then the theory is correct. If ithe theory is correct, mathematics is incorrect.

So go ahead.

[Atla]

Explain to me how the description of mathematics (why it exists and what it's doing) presented by my theory, DOESN'T resolve the question: "Why does mathematics exhibit both discovered and invented qualities in superposition?"

My theory resolves the deepest philosophical question about mathematics, but due to the deep state of delusion that ALL OF HUMANITY is under, people are unable to SEE and accept that which is obvious

I'm challenging you to prove that my theory doesn't present a resolution to the question: "Why does mathematics exhibit both discovered and invented qualities?" If you can't then it does. If it does, then the theory is correct. If ithe theory is correct, mathematics is incorrect.

So go ahead.

Go ahead with what? I already asked you to show that 1. there is a Samsara cycle at all, and 2. that there's a message in math about this Samsara cycle. No response so far.

So far your hypothesis isn't even as good as dozens or hundreds of others about mathemathics. I'd say, looks like even my rambling was a better attempt, even though I never gave this much thought:

For the record, my preferred conjecture is that our mathemathics is probably a reflection of the laws/regularities/structure of our universe. Mathemathics may be different in other universes. So mathemathics is basically discovered. But mathemathics is done using the "unit", where a unit may the primordial abstract object. The unit is the 1. It's an abstract concept, there are no units in nature. We build the number line by taking the unit several times: 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. In this sense mathemathics is invented, the abstract unit is the langauge of mathemathics.

I think a better approach would be like asking: why is pi=3.1415... and not something else, why is e=2.7182... and not something else, why is the Golden ratio=1.6180... and not something else, or my favourite one: why does the Monster group have exactly 196883 dimensions? Now that is baffling imo. etc.

I can't prove this but I also suspect that the number 6 somehow represents a perfect minimalistic arrangement of nature. The number 6 seems to come up a lot.

And then there's that crazy stuff that when you take the Zeta function of the sum of all natural numbers: 1+2+3+... up to infinity, you get -1/12 which can than be used in Quantum Mechanics apparently (this may be wrong, don't know).

Are such values, arrangements somehow reflections of the structure/laws/regularities of our universe? Would they be different in other universes (in case there are any), or in other parts of our universe? (I think Arthur C. Clarke played with this idea in one of his books where alien spheres appear on Earth, but pi=3 applies to them.)

Would other universes have different primes? Maybe if you add, substract or multiply natural numbers in another universe, you don't get a natural number as a result?

And so on.