The Democrat Party Hates America

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Alexiev
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Alexiev »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:05 am
Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:33 am If you claim Italians feed Christians to the lions, that "tars" Italians, even though they did it.
I don't. But actually, to "tar" somebody is to give them a smear they haven't merited. The Dems have merited theirs, including recently.
In recent years the Democrats have been more inclusive of racial minorities than the Republicans, and more active in promoting the rights of black Americans.

Well, I think the BLM riots are instructive. In them, Democrats supported the sacking, looting and burning of the inner cities, so they could increase their own power. Maybe you can explain how American blacks having their own neighbourhoods destroyed, then being de-policed and losing their retail outlets, all while receiving no part of the millions allegedly donated their 'cause' turned out to be a great thing for them. But I think you'll find that those neighbourhoods are not only not better but substantially worse for the backing they got from the Dems.

Why is it that so many cities are run by Democrat mayors...Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, New York...and on and on and on...and in all these cities in which Democrats have ruled pretty much unimpeded for fifty or a hundred years now, the plight of the inner city is as bad or worse than it ever was? How well is LA doing right now? San Fran? Portland? Seattle? If the Democrats are so pro-black, why are things so bad for blacks under Democrat regimes?

Maybe the Democrats have not shed their history quite as well as they would like you to believe.
As to whether rights exist a priori to any cultural or human recognition of them, I suppose that if you believe they derive from the will of God, you have a point.
Fair enough.
Nonetheless, from a political, cultural and sociological standpoint, rights are nothing more than duties on the part of other people.

You mean from a godless standpoint? From a godless standpoint, they're a fiction.
Even if they do derive from God they impose duties on humans, and that is all that they do and all that they can do.
They do quite a lot, actually. They can be used to structure a system of justice, for example, or to assert one's human entitlements against a corrupt system, or to inform one's own moral decision-making in relations with others. They're a kind of information -- not a kind of compulsion: that is, they tell one what one's duty is...they don't force one to obey that duty. But they're also backed by divine authority, so they have their role, as well, in final judgment for those that treat them too lightly.
The Democrats are far from ideal. Nonetheless, they despise America far less than the Republicans do. The MAGA folk despise what America has become. They dislike equal rights for minorities; they (like you) despise Muslims and religious diversity, they long to Make America Great by returning it to the days of Jim Crow, legal segregation, discrimination against homosexuals, and high-paying working class jobs (which are never going to return in a global economy). IN addition, Trump -- the clear leader of the Republican party -- tried to overturn the election and set up an autocracy, he threatens to weaponize the military against his political opponents if he should (heaven forfend) become president again, and he despises everything American history and mythic ideology represents.

He does appeal to his supporters in part because of his racism and his antipathy for liberal intellectuals, but also because the American ideals of hard work and bootstrap pulling have never appealed to the working class. Trump is a grifter and a con man, and that (as Mark Twain pointed out in Huckleberry Finn and Wallace Stegner identified in Big Rock Candy Mountain) is that actual American ideal. Is it your ideal too, Immanuel?

You've been frequenting too many whacko internet conspiracy sites if you think Democrats promote BLM riots, and you ignore history if you think American inner cities are worse off now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. True: things could be better. But weren't there massive inner city riots in the 1960s? Learn some history. America may have been slightly better for unionized (i.e. Democrats) working class laborers in the 1960s, but they were worse for black people, worse for Latinos, and worse for poor people. MAGA idealizes a past that we have done well to abandon.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

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Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:56 am The Democrats are far from ideal. Nonetheless, they despise America far less than the Republicans do.
It's hard to believe that. The party of leaky borders, globalism, big media, COVID, wars...none of that looks very pro-American.
...returning it to the days of Jim Crow, legal segregation,
Those were always Democrat policies, as was slavery. I don't see any will from the Repubs to return to those Democrat days.
...high-paying working class jobs
Those would be a good thing. But the Dems have abandoned the working class, dubbing them "deplorables" and "rednecks." They're so busy selling America to China and laundering tax money in foreign wars that they haven't got time for the working class anymore.
...tried to overturn the election...
The Dems outright stole one. It's funny: they were all about overturning the election when Trump got in, and then when they rigged Biden in, didn't want anybody to inspect the results anymore. Suddenly it was all "That was a conspiracy theory!" and "You're anti-democratic if you question an election result!"

Funny how hypocrisy works.
You've been frequenting too many whacko internet conspiracy sites if you think Democrats promote BLM riots,

No, it's true.

Remember the Dems saying that churches and schools couldn't be open, but people were allowed to riot? Remember the "mostly peaceful protests that had to be allowed to rage unchecked? Remember Nasty Pelosi kneeling in obeisance, wearing a kente cloth? Remember the Democrat mayors grovelling in front of BLM? But the Dems are all rich, and the black inner city is still poor: funny how it always seems to work out that way.
But weren't there massive inner city riots in the 1960s?
You mean when the Democrat governors were still trying to fight desegregation?
Alexiev
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Alexiev »

Have a good day.

Your post does not merit a response.
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LuckyR
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by LuckyR »

This thread would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. The idea that one political party has a lock on the noble while the other is crass and self-serving is naive in the extreme. Political parties are, by definition, run by insiders who seek power and influence as their primary goal and oh by the way maybe lets get some things done for the country, especially if we can spin it to get more power and influence, which is our primary purpose.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Immanuel Can »

LuckyR wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:02 am The idea that one political party has a lock on the noble while the other is crass and self-serving is naive in the extreme.
I don't know who said that...I certainly didn't, as you'll find if you look back.

I would argue that all the politicians are corrupt. But the OP is about the Dems, and speaking about them doesn't obligate us to express an opinion about the Repubs. I could name some of them that seem totally venial, and go along with the Dems in promoting war, elitism, big business, and in grinding money out of the poor. Reformers on the Repub side are quick to point out the very same thing, in fact. They call such corrupt colluders "the RINOs." You must have heard that term used. It means, "Republican In Name Only."
Political parties are, by definition, run by insiders who seek power and influence as their primary goal and oh by the way maybe lets get some things done for the country, especially if we can spin it to get more power and influence, which is our primary purpose.
I totally agree. The two-party system has become corrupt beyond belief. And adding parties splits the vote and creates what's called "minority" and "coalition" governments, so they're ultimately even less democratic than the existing system.

But the Dems are the people in power right now. And they're the ones who are making most of the trouble right now. So it's only appropriate that we don't pretend that the situation is equal at the moment. When the Repubs get in, feel free to pound on them: but until they do, the Dems are the problem.
Alexiev
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Alexiev »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:59 pm

But the Dems are the people in power right now. And they're the ones who are making most of the trouble right now. So it's only appropriate that we don't pretend that the situation is equal at the moment. When the Repubs get in, feel free to pound on them: but until they do, the Dems are the problem.
They are? I thought the Republicans control the House of Representatives. And they outnumber the Democrats in the Senate 49-48. There are 26 Republican Governors -- 24 Democrats.

In any event, policy differences don't necessarily involve "hate". However, Trump's invective against his political opponents is hateful, and his disrespect for the American tradition of democracy suggests that he (and his supporters) despise the "American Way". Who is it that hates America?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:59 pm But the Dems are the people in power right now. And they're the ones who are making most of the trouble right now. So it's only appropriate that we don't pretend that the situation is equal at the moment. When the Repubs get in, feel free to pound on them: but until they do, the Dems are the problem.
They are? I thought the Republicans control the House of Representatives. And they outnumber the Democrats in the Senate 49-48. There are 26 Republican Governors -- 24 Democrats.
And yet, all this is recent. The Democrats are now somewhat frustrated in their ambitions, it's true; but not decisively yet. They still hold the key position, the presidency; and the RINOs will guarantee that somebody who stands for those pernicious policies will always remain in charge -- unless the electorate holds its representatives to much better account than they are wont to do.

I don't think the American people have the will to hold the Dems and RINOs to account. I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of the world. But I suspect probably not.
Alexiev
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Alexiev »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:21 pm
Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:59 pm But the Dems are the people in power right now. And they're the ones who are making most of the trouble right now. So it's only appropriate that we don't pretend that the situation is equal at the moment. When the Repubs get in, feel free to pound on them: but until they do, the Dems are the problem.
They are? I thought the Republicans control the House of Representatives. And they outnumber the Democrats in the Senate 49-48. There are 26 Republican Governors -- 24 Democrats.
And yet, all this is recent. The Democrats are now somewhat frustrated in their ambitions, it's true; but not decisively yet. They still hold the key position, the presidency; and the RINOs will guarantee that somebody who stands for those pernicious policies will always remain in charge -- unless the electorate holds its representatives to much better account than they are wont to do.

I don't think the American people have the will to hold the Dems and RINOs to account. I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of the world. But I suspect probably not.
So far, thank goodness, the Republicans have been frustrated in their ambition to turn America into an autocracy. At least, that is clearly Donald Trump's ambition, and he and anyone who votes for him clearly hate America and the American Way. Is that you, Immanuel?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

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Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:54 pm So far, thank goodness, the Republicans have been frustrated in their ambition to turn America into an autocracy.
As an outsider, I see no evidence they're doing this at all, or trying to do it at all. To me, it looks like paranoid propaganda designed to sustain support for the Dems by ginning up fear of the opposition. I think people shouldn't be so easy to fool. But they are, which is why I say I hope the Americans have the nerve to hold their politicians to account, but I fear they don't.
Alexiev
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:03 pm
Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:54 pm So far, thank goodness, the Republicans have been frustrated in their ambition to turn America into an autocracy.
As an outsider, I see no evidence they're doing this at all, or trying to do it at all. To me, it looks like paranoid propaganda designed to sustain support for the Dems by ginning up fear of the opposition. I think people shouldn't be so easy to fool. But they are, which is why I say I hope the Americans have the nerve to hold their politicians to account, but I fear they don't.
Good grief! What do you think Trump's attempts to overturn the election comprised? Why is he on trial in Georgia for trying to pressurte the secretary of state to "find more votes"? Why have many of his accomplices already pled guilty? He's clearly a grifter (as his New York Civil trial has proved), and he's also a treasonous hater of the Constitutional protections against tyranny. Why is he also facing a trial for the January 6th insurrection (his direct guilt here is a little less clear, but it's obvious he supported the attempt to invalidate the election)?

The American public is not so easy to fool. Unfortunately, Trump hasn't fooled them. Instead, like the Germans who voted for Hitler, they support his shenanigans.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:03 pm
Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:54 pm So far, thank goodness, the Republicans have been frustrated in their ambition to turn America into an autocracy.
As an outsider, I see no evidence they're doing this at all, or trying to do it at all. To me, it looks like paranoid propaganda designed to sustain support for the Dems by ginning up fear of the opposition. I think people shouldn't be so easy to fool. But they are, which is why I say I hope the Americans have the nerve to hold their politicians to account, but I fear they don't.
Good grief! What do you think Trump's attempts to overturn the election comprised?
It comprised trying to find out how the Dems had cheated...which you know for sure they did, unless you believe Biden was the most popular presidential candidate in history...including more popular than Clinton and Obama. And that's after the Russia Hoax, now proved 100% false, and the Biden laptop, now proved 100% authentic, which would have massively swung the vote.

That election was clearly rigged, on at least three counts. It's actually anti-democratic not to ask what happened, because for sure, something massively unethical was done there...well, at least three things, actually.
The American public is not so easy to fool.
Apparently, they are. They didn't insist on an inquiry. And why would the Dems have resisted such an inquiry? If they're telling the truth, it would only have proved how authentic and democratic they were.

But they weren't. And they know it. And truth be told, we should know it, too.
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:37 pm
Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:03 pm
As an outsider, I see no evidence they're doing this at all, or trying to do it at all. To me, it looks like paranoid propaganda designed to sustain support for the Dems by ginning up fear of the opposition. I think people shouldn't be so easy to fool. But they are, which is why I say I hope the Americans have the nerve to hold their politicians to account, but I fear they don't.
Good grief! What do you think Trump's attempts to overturn the election comprised?
It comprised trying to find out how the Dems had cheated...which you know for sure they did, unless you believe Biden was the most popular presidential candidate in history...including more popular than Clinton and Obama. And that's after the Russia Hoax, now proved 100% false, and the Biden laptop, now proved 100% authentic, which would have massively swung the vote.

That election was clearly rigged, on at least three counts. It's actually anti-democratic not to ask what happened, because for sure, something massively unethical was done there...well, at least three things, actually.

The American public is not so easy to fool.
Apparently, they are. They didn't insist on an inquiry. And why would the Dems have resisted such an inquiry? If they're telling the truth, it would only have proved how authentic and democratic they were.

But they weren't. And they know it. And truth be told, we should know it, too.
This is a remarkable text, Manny! Normally people who have misconceptions or a desire to misdirect others will nevertheless mix the bullshit in with a ballast of truth. But I am struggling to find anything in what you've written here that isn't false.

Let me spell it out to you in simple terms. That you believe Trump was more popular than Biden is not proof that Biden's defeat of Trump was rigged. It isn't even evidence. You have no evidence for your repeated claims. There is no evidence. All the evidence there is (and there's a lot of it) establishes the legitimacy of Biden's election beyond all reasonable doubt.

And I believe you know you are giving credence to democracy-destroying lies.

It's you. You hate America!
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:01 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:37 pm
Alexiev wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:29 pm

Good grief! What do you think Trump's attempts to overturn the election comprised?
It comprised trying to find out how the Dems had cheated...which you know for sure they did, unless you believe Biden was the most popular presidential candidate in history...including more popular than Clinton and Obama. And that's after the Russia Hoax, now proved 100% false, and the Biden laptop, now proved 100% authentic, which would have massively swung the vote.

That election was clearly rigged, on at least three counts. It's actually anti-democratic not to ask what happened, because for sure, something massively unethical was done there...well, at least three things, actually.

The American public is not so easy to fool.
Apparently, they are. They didn't insist on an inquiry. And why would the Dems have resisted such an inquiry? If they're telling the truth, it would only have proved how authentic and democratic they were.

But they weren't. And they know it. And truth be told, we should know it, too.
I am struggling to find anything in what you've written here that isn't false.
I can help.

We know that the Russia Collusion thing was a complete hoax. We know that the Hunter Biden laptop was authentic. We know that Biden statistically outperformed Obama and Clinton...and Abe Lincoln...if Biden's election results are to be believed. So there's plenty here we all know to be true.
That you believe Trump was more popular than Biden is not proof that Biden's defeat of Trump was rigged.
I did not say it was proof of that. I said that the suggestion that Biden was more popular than any other presidential candidate in American history is patently absurd, and nobody can believe it, even though that's what the Dems want to sell to us. Anybody with an IQ higher than the VP's can tell that's codswallop.
It's you. You hate America!
:lol: Quite the opposite. I admire America very much, and wish her well. I've travelled quite extensively there, and have many friends there. Far from being xenophobic toward Americans, I'm married to one. So I think you're going to need a different explanation.
commonsense
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by commonsense »

mickthinks wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:01 am
This is a remarkable text, Manny! Normally people who have misconceptions or a desire to misdirect others will nevertheless mix the bullshit in with a ballast of truth. But I am struggling to find anything in what you've written here that isn't false.

Let me spell it out to you in simple terms. That you believe Trump was more popular than Biden is not proof that Biden's defeat of Trump was rigged. It isn't even evidence. You have no evidence for your repeated claims. There is no evidence. All the evidence there is (and there's a lot of it) establishes the legitimacy of Biden's election beyond all reasonable doubt.

And I believe you know you are giving credence to democracy-destroying lies.

It's you. You hate America!
Didn’t you intend this post for Walker as well?
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LuckyR
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Re: The Democrat Party Hates America

Post by LuckyR »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:59 pm
LuckyR wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:02 am The idea that one political party has a lock on the noble while the other is crass and self-serving is naive in the extreme.
I don't know who said that...I certainly didn't, as you'll find if you look back.

I would argue that all the politicians are corrupt. But the OP is about the Dems, and speaking about them doesn't obligate us to express an opinion about the Repubs. I could name some of them that seem totally venial, and go along with the Dems in promoting war, elitism, big business, and in grinding money out of the poor. Reformers on the Repub side are quick to point out the very same thing, in fact. They call such corrupt colluders "the RINOs." You must have heard that term used. It means, "Republican In Name Only."
Political parties are, by definition, run by insiders who seek power and influence as their primary goal and oh by the way maybe lets get some things done for the country, especially if we can spin it to get more power and influence, which is our primary purpose.
I totally agree. The two-party system has become corrupt beyond belief. And adding parties splits the vote and creates what's called "minority" and "coalition" governments, so they're ultimately even less democratic than the existing system.

But the Dems are the people in power right now. And they're the ones who are making most of the trouble right now. So it's only appropriate that we don't pretend that the situation is equal at the moment. When the Repubs get in, feel free to pound on them: but until they do, the Dems are the problem.
"the problem"? What are your thoughts on the Supreme Court? How about the House?

Sure I can pound on the Republicans, but are you going to join me?
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