The Objective Realm

[Wizard22]

Objectivity is outside all human or animal conscious awareness.
When you go to sleep at night, the sun, the moon, the earth all still exist.
Objective existence does not require Subjective experience, to exist.
You, your body, your life, your physical identity, still exists while you are in a coma.

So if objectivity is 'outside' consciousness, then how do we (humanity) know about it? That's the kicker...technically, we don't. Instead we use our higher & highest mental faculties to "get at" it, to access it, to enter it. We use "Science", Rationality, Reason, Philosophy, Mathematics, Physics, and the like—to try (and fail) to gain access. However, the immediate problem of Objectivity, is that it enters into Mysticism, Fantasy, Childhood Imagination, very quickly. Because all humans begin life from the stage of childhood, before adulthood, therein our first impressions of Objectivity are...undisciplined, unrestrained, unkempt.

The important 'Fact' to realize about our attempts to "step into" Objectivity, is that they are all failures and doomed to failure. Because the Objective Realm can never match the Subjective Realm. To do so, would require Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Omnipresence. You would need to be—literally God. Thus the Objective realm is used...by Religion, by Faith, by Charlatans, by Liars, by the Unskilled, by the Uncreative, by all types, good and bad. In these, the lesser examples, the worst of humanity, poses itself as "equal to" the highest and best of humanity. The presumption is, to analogize, that all Architects are equally valid and good. But that is not true, in form or practice. A failed Architect, has his buildings crumble to the ground, or bridges collapse, costing lives.

Yet the religious interpretations of Objectivity are most commonly understood throughout Humanity. Most people don't seem to connect the two, Science and Religion, as both trying to gain access to the same 'realm'. They are perceived as different types of truth. But really, their Object is the same...Objectivity itself.



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Subject:

Originating/Beginning from the point-of-view or perspective inside a human life, within "the mind" or consciousness.

The Subject is what 'you' are, your self-identity.

Subjectivity requires a (your own) "living perspective".



Object:

Originating/Beginning from the point-of-view or perspective outside a human life, without "the mind" or consciousness.

The Object is what 'you' are not, otherness.

Objectivity does not require a (your own) "living perspective".

[Harbal]

Yet the religious interpretations of Objectivity are most commonly understood throughout Humanity. Most people don't seem to connect the two, Science and Religion, as both trying to gain access to the same 'realm'.

Two things doing the same job is a waste of resources, so we should dump religion. After all, science does the job so much better.

[Wizard22]

Two things doing the same job is a waste of resources, so we should dump religion. After all, science does the job so much better.

Not when it comes to the moral behaviors humans ought to do.

[Harbal]

Two things doing the same job is a waste of resources, so we should dump religion. After all, science does the job so much better.

Not when it comes to the moral behaviors humans ought to do.

Religious morality is too immoral for my liking; we can do better without it.

[Wizard22]

Religious morality is too immoral for my liking; we can do better without it.

Considering how you balked on the matter of LGBTQ+ and child/teenage genital mutilation, I disagree.

Catholicism still has a monopoly on successful marriages, 2000 years later. No other religion/system, not Anglican, not Protestant, not Jewish, even comes close.

[Harbal]

Religious morality is too immoral for my liking; we can do better without it.

Considering how you balked on the matter of LGBTQ+ and child/teenage genital mutilation, I disagree.

What did I do that you perceived as balking?

Catholicism still has a monopoly on successful marriages, 2000 years later. No other religion/system, not Anglican, not Protestant, not Jewish, even comes close.

If by successful, you mean staying together despite being utterly miserable in the situation, then you could well be right.

[Sculptor]

Objectivity is outside all human or animal conscious awareness.
When you go to sleep at night, the sun, the moon, the earth all still exist.
Objective existence does not require Subjective experience, to exist.
You, your body, your life, your physical identity, still exists while you are in a coma.

Objectively:....

Trump is a multiple bankrupt.
Trump paid off prostitutes.
Trump continually fails to pay his debts.
Trump led a crime organisaton to steal the election.
Trump and his mob threatened election workers
Trump and his mob instructed fake electors
Trump and his mob forged elector forms and made the fake electors sign them.
Trump withheld state secrets in document form and refused to return them.

This is the guy you want to run the country.


You might want to start engaging with the objective world.

[commonsense]

Objectivity is outside all human or animal conscious awareness.
When you go to sleep at night, the sun, the moon, the earth all still exist.
Objective existence does not require Subjective experience, to exist.
You, your body, your life, your physical identity, still exists while you are in a coma.

Trump is on tape saying that you can grab beauty pageant participants by the pussy.
Trump under-reported his wealth in order to get out of paying taxes.
Trump overestimated his wealth in order to obtain favorable loan conditions.
Trump told the American people that COVID was like a cold and would go away.
Trump encouraged inappropriate and dangerous treatments for Coronavirus.
Trump’s charitable foundation collected money from other organizations and re-gifted it as if it were from Trump.
Trump said he would not support the Republican candidate for president if it were someone other than himself.
Trump obstructed law enforcement attempting to execute a warrant for illegally retained classified documents.
Trump mocked an invalid journalist.
Trump fondled the American flag.
Trump lied on a myriad of subjects despite 1000’s of fact checks.
Trump denigrated a gold star family.
Trump dismissed a national treasure as less than a hero.
Et al.

[Iwannaplato]

Religious morality is too immoral for my liking; we can do better without it.

Considering how you balked on the matter of LGBTQ+ and child/teenage genital mutilation, I disagree.

Catholicism still has a monopoly on successful marriages, 2000 years later. No other religion/system, not Anglican, not Protestant, not Jewish, even comes close.

So, those other religious moralities aren't so good.

But then given the amount of shame in religions how could one possibly figure out if the people in Catholic marriage are happy about their marriages. Catholic morality also managed to create some of the most incredibly high percentages of sexual abuse of children AND the experienced and supposedly more spiritually enlightened and moral leadership of the church opted to hide all this until they couldn't manage it anymore.

So, we have a belief system where the very people who are supposed to be the intermediaries with God are pedophiles. And the people who advanced in this belief system to positions of authority opted to hide this issue. In fact they would move known pedophiles to new positions where they came into contact with children.

What a moral institution.

So, it's cherry picking, even if you are right, and then not very good cherry picking. Threaten people with Hell, tell them marriage is sacred, mount campaigns from childhood to make divorce at best look like a failure and at worst a possible ticket to eternal torture
and, wow, surprise!!!!!
they get divorced less.

Success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Talk about confirmation bias.

And this is not even getting into the fucked up ideas about men being more holy than women and who gets the power in a family.

[Wizard22]

It looks like I won't have to argue too strongly how Subjective Biases quickly enter the Objective Realm.

Thank you all for providing such ample evidence and proof!

[Wizard22]

After all, science does the job so much better.

Objectively:....

Et al.

Talk about confirmation bias.

Listen, my precious detractors...

Can any of you present one...just one "scientific institution" that produces more successful marriages than the Catholic Church?

Poindexter now pronounces you...Husband and Husband, you may now kiss your dog and cat???

[Sculptor]

After all, science does the job so much better.

Objectively:....

Et al.

Talk about confirmation bias.

Listen, my precious detractors...

Can any of you present one...just one "scientific institution" that produces more successful marriages than the Catholic Church?

Poindexter now pronounces you...Husband and Husband, you may now kiss your dog and cat???

This is hilarious.

It's like asking can you name one planet in the universe that can make Key Lime Pie better than my auntie Mavis?

[Wizard22]

This is hilarious.

It's like asking can you name one planet in the universe that can make Key Lime Pie better than my auntie Mavis?

Agreed then, Science is not the realm we should look for Objective morality, how to live life, and where to find meaning/purpose, shant we?

[Iwannaplato]

Can any of you present one...just one "scientific institution" that produces more successful marriages than the Catholic Church?

The premise was that religious insitutions promote morality. You brought up the specific: marriage.
I criticizes this in two ways: 1) that it was cherry picking and the CAtholic religion, as Harbal remarked more generally, has lots of problems with morality; 2) you are judging success on one criterion, without justifying that that should be the only one.

No response to what I said.

[Wizard22]

The premise was that religious insitutions promote morality. You brought up the specific: marriage.
I criticizes this in two ways: 1) that it was cherry picking and the CAtholic religion, as Harbal remarked more generally, has lots of problems with morality; 2) you are judging success on one criterion, without justifying that that should be the only one.

No response to what I said.

NO...the premise was Harbal's implication "Science does the job better".

How does it do marriage better? Explain it to me.