Science is Based on Faith like Theism?

[attofishpi]

Everyday as the earth passing into shadow, and as it passes out of that shadow, millions, nay billons of people enter into a strange ritual. They do it thoughtlessly for the most part, and automatically rarely thinking aboutwhy they are doing it.

They enter, what is most often the smallest room in their dwelling, a room usually austere with hard clinical feastures; they then squeeze a paste from a tube onto a brush, and putting that in their mouth they brush their teeth. The ritual often is concluded with a green or blue liquid and a gargle.

The efficacy of the ritual is supposedly based on science, yet not one of them (oh maybe a handful worldwide), have every seen evidence that such a ritual is useful. EVen if you ask a dentist, they will tell you all the benefits of the ritual, yet they have only been told of the benefits at school.

This ritual is one of the greatest marketing successes of the 20thC, and was relatively unknown in previous centruries, yet for the practicioners it is wholly based on faith.

It is highly fetishised too. Some insist of certain types of toothpaste, others insist on bruch type hardness, electric or not, Braun or Philips. Mouthwashes are also highly fetishised, and there is very little evidence that they provide ANY additional purpose.

A taveller from another planet might think this is some sort of religion and was related to the fact that humans seem to do something very strange within the two practices of this ritual; namely that they lie down and go unconscious for circa 7-8 hours each darkness cycle.

Sometimes I find you rather an interesting chap Mr Sculptor! I tend to brush my teeth when I feel they need a good scrubbing. Recently I bought 'whitener" it was quite expensive and I can't say my teeth appear any whiter - it's the cups of tea that could be part of the issue.
I haven't been to a dentist since England - so around 1986! I used to think to myself, that steel hook they use to scrape between teeth can;'t be doing much for the enamel coating - also I hate pain I swear they're sadistic bastards. My teeth seem in pretty good shape though - I think if I ever get a recurring really bad toothache I might venture in to a dentist, but unitl then an occasional brush with some past seems enough.
Don't tell me you never brush!!

[Age]

All of science is expected to be expressible mathematically. All of mathematics is rooted in axioms. Axioms are "self-evident". "Self-evident" is a deference to intuition outside of logic. Intuition is non-logical form of reasoning. God is sometimes said to be "self-evident" which is also a deference to intuition outside of logic. So to the degree that intuition is also faith, science is faith-based like theism. Furthermore, the degree to which God can be expressible mathematically, God is an entity of science.

Is 'this' an actual fact, or just what you think or believe is true?

This is a fact to the degree that dictionary definitions of the terms used are facts, rather than just what I think is true.

And, 'you' ARE AWARE and AGREE THAT there ARE MANY dictionaries and ALL have and hold DIFFERENT 'definitions', right?

I'd categorize them more as assertions rather than facts.

Is an 'assertion' more of what IS 'a fact' or more of just what one 'thinks or believes is true'? Or, an 'assertion' can be both, and it is ONLY ON FURTHER 'investigation' what the ACTUAL Truth IS here COMES-TO-LIGHT?

Each of these statements could be placed on a fact to opinion scale.

They COULD BE, but WHY BOTHER. Obviously if some 'thing' IS A 'Fact', then 'it' can NOT be REFUTED in ANY way or shape. Whereas, if some 'thing' is just what one thinks or BELIEVES is true, ONLY, then what the ACTUAL Truth IS WILL have to be WAITED FOR, and SEEN.

All of mathematics being rooted in axioms is the closest statement to being a fact,

But, to me, 'mathematics' just involves invented and created 'numbers', and NOT necessarily 'rooted in' 'axioms' AT ALL. Unless, OF COURSE, 'you' are using a particular definition for the word 'axiom' here, which I am UNAWARE OF.

while science being expressible with math is closest to being an opinion (what I think or believe is true).

I HAVE and USE a completely DIFFERENT definition here for the 'science' word.

[Sculptor]

Everyday as the earth passing into shadow, and as it passes out of that shadow, millions, nay billons of people enter into a strange ritual. They do it thoughtlessly for the most part, and automatically rarely thinking aboutwhy they are doing it.

They enter, what is most often the smallest room in their dwelling, a room usually austere with hard clinical feastures; they then squeeze a paste from a tube onto a brush, and putting that in their mouth they brush their teeth. The ritual often is concluded with a green or blue liquid and a gargle.

The efficacy of the ritual is supposedly based on science, yet not one of them (oh maybe a handful worldwide), have every seen evidence that such a ritual is useful. EVen if you ask a dentist, they will tell you all the benefits of the ritual, yet they have only been told of the benefits at school.

This ritual is one of the greatest marketing successes of the 20thC, and was relatively unknown in previous centruries, yet for the practicioners it is wholly based on faith.

It is highly fetishised too. Some insist of certain types of toothpaste, others insist on bruch type hardness, electric or not, Braun or Philips. Mouthwashes are also highly fetishised, and there is very little evidence that they provide ANY additional purpose.

A taveller from another planet might think this is some sort of religion and was related to the fact that humans seem to do something very strange within the two practices of this ritual; namely that they lie down and go unconscious for circa 7-8 hours each darkness cycle.

Sometimes I find you rather an interesting chap Mr Sculptor! I tend to brush my teeth when I feel they need a good scrubbing. Recently I bought 'whitener" it was quite expensive and I can't say my teeth appear any whiter - it's the cups of tea that could be part of the issue.
I haven't been to a dentist since England - so around 1986! I used to think to myself, that steel hook they use to scrape between teeth can;'t be doing much for the enamel coating - also I hate pain I swear they're sadistic bastards. My teeth seem in pretty good shape though - I think if I ever get a recurring really bad toothache I might venture in to a dentist, but unitl then an occasional brush with some past seems enough.
Don't tell me you never brush!!

I ruined my teeth as a sweet loving teen. My tipple was sherbert lemons and metho-lyptus.
By the time I was adult I was down one molar and a a cluster of fillings. Then there was the saga of the widom teet which my mouht was not able to accomodate. One moved down early to replace the extration, but the others had to be painfully removed.
These things were both a consequence of the modern diet. It is a known fact that children's jaws no longer develop properly since the food we eat these days is just too soft and without the resistance we do not develope the bone growth.

The final injury was getting tonsil cancer which meant my mouth was irradiated and this has cause the final death of severl teeth in the upper jaw.
SInce the cancer I've looks after my teeth since I am at contonual risk of bone necrosis.
Being on a low carb diet has helped this enourmously.

I brush twice a day as a rule though often "forget".

Aside from that - my point was really about how people take things on faith.
People who live outside the western proessed sugar and starch based foods zone, have little or no need to clean their mouths. Tradictional diets are mouth hygenic.

[attofishpi]

Everyday as the earth passing into shadow, and as it passes out of that shadow, millions, nay billons of people enter into a strange ritual. They do it thoughtlessly for the most part, and automatically rarely thinking aboutwhy they are doing it.

They enter, what is most often the smallest room in their dwelling, a room usually austere with hard clinical feastures; they then squeeze a paste from a tube onto a brush, and putting that in their mouth they brush their teeth. The ritual often is concluded with a green or blue liquid and a gargle.

The efficacy of the ritual is supposedly based on science, yet not one of them (oh maybe a handful worldwide), have every seen evidence that such a ritual is useful. EVen if you ask a dentist, they will tell you all the benefits of the ritual, yet they have only been told of the benefits at school.

This ritual is one of the greatest marketing successes of the 20thC, and was relatively unknown in previous centruries, yet for the practicioners it is wholly based on faith.

It is highly fetishised too. Some insist of certain types of toothpaste, others insist on bruch type hardness, electric or not, Braun or Philips. Mouthwashes are also highly fetishised, and there is very little evidence that they provide ANY additional purpose.

A taveller from another planet might think this is some sort of religion and was related to the fact that humans seem to do something very strange within the two practices of this ritual; namely that they lie down and go unconscious for circa 7-8 hours each darkness cycle.

Sometimes I find you rather an interesting chap Mr Sculptor! I tend to brush my teeth when I feel they need a good scrubbing. Recently I bought 'whitener" it was quite expensive and I can't say my teeth appear any whiter - it's the cups of tea that could be part of the issue.
I haven't been to a dentist since England - so around 1986! I used to think to myself, that steel hook they use to scrape between teeth can;'t be doing much for the enamel coating - also I hate pain I swear they're sadistic bastards. My teeth seem in pretty good shape though - I think if I ever get a recurring really bad toothache I might venture in to a dentist, but unitl then an occasional brush with some past seems enough.
Don't tell me you never brush!!

I ruined my teeth as a sweet loving teen. My tipple was sherbert lemons and metho-lyptus.
By the time I was adult I was down one molar and a a cluster of fillings. Then there was the saga of the widom teet which my mouht was not able to accomodate. One moved down early to replace the extration, but the others had to be painfully removed.
These things were both a consequence of the modern diet. It is a known fact that children's jaws no longer develop properly since the food we eat these days is just too soft and without the resistance we do not develope the bone growth.

The final injury was getting tonsil cancer which meant my mouth was irradiated and this has cause the final death of severl teeth in the upper jaw.
SInce the cancer I've looks after my teeth since I am at contonual risk of bone necrosis.
Being on a low carb diet has helped this enourmously.

I brush twice a day as a rule though often "forget".

Aside from that - my point was really about how people take things on faith.
People who live outside the western proessed sugar and starch based foods zone, have little or no need to clean their mouths. Tradictional diets are mouth hygenic.

Lol - I just had a chat with my Dad while I was walking the dog - he always wants to know how Donnie is! He spends his days watching utube or reading so I asked him what he's watching - "Richard Feynmann" he said.

So when I got home I decided to watch a video and I picked this one:-
The World from another point of view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhlNSLQAFE&t=182s

..a bit of synchronicity, perhaps you watched the same video at some point - regarding the cleaning of teeth as the Earth revolves!!

I couldn't believe it, but synchronicity can be a bastard when that entity you don't believe exists does it continuously (not the tooth fairy either )

[Sculptor]

Sometimes I find you rather an interesting chap Mr Sculptor! I tend to brush my teeth when I feel they need a good scrubbing. Recently I bought 'whitener" it was quite expensive and I can't say my teeth appear any whiter - it's the cups of tea that could be part of the issue.
I haven't been to a dentist since England - so around 1986! I used to think to myself, that steel hook they use to scrape between teeth can;'t be doing much for the enamel coating - also I hate pain I swear they're sadistic bastards. My teeth seem in pretty good shape though - I think if I ever get a recurring really bad toothache I might venture in to a dentist, but unitl then an occasional brush with some past seems enough.
Don't tell me you never brush!!

I ruined my teeth as a sweet loving teen. My tipple was sherbert lemons and metho-lyptus.
By the time I was adult I was down one molar and a a cluster of fillings. Then there was the saga of the widom teet which my mouht was not able to accomodate. One moved down early to replace the extration, but the others had to be painfully removed.
These things were both a consequence of the modern diet. It is a known fact that children's jaws no longer develop properly since the food we eat these days is just too soft and without the resistance we do not develope the bone growth.

The final injury was getting tonsil cancer which meant my mouth was irradiated and this has cause the final death of severl teeth in the upper jaw.
SInce the cancer I've looks after my teeth since I am at contonual risk of bone necrosis.
Being on a low carb diet has helped this enourmously.

I brush twice a day as a rule though often "forget".

Aside from that - my point was really about how people take things on faith.
People who live outside the western proessed sugar and starch based foods zone, have little or no need to clean their mouths. Tradictional diets are mouth hygenic.

Lol - I just had a chat with my Dad while I was walking the dog - he always wants to know how Donnie is! He spends his days watching utube or reading so I asked him what he's watching - "Richard Feynmann" he said.

So when I got home I decided to watch a video and I picked this one:-
The World from another point of view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhlNSLQAFE&t=182s

..a bit of synchronicity, perhaps you watched the same video at some point - regarding the cleaning of teeth as the Earth revolves!!

I couldn't believe it, but synchronicity can be a bastard when that entity you don't believe exists does it continuously (not the tooth fairy either )

WOW.
This has been in my consciousness for decades.
Feyman had a big influence on me, and the BBC followed him doing several programmes about him which I lapped up. This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain.

[Skepdick]

WOW.
This has been in my consciousness for decades.
Feyman had a big influence on me, and the BBC followed him doing several programmes about him which I lapped up. This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain.

Feynman's thought experiment about explainng things to Martians is an intuition leveraged by many a great thinkers. It forces you to take the context you assume is "common sense" to everyone and make it explicit to somebody who doesn't seem to share your "common sensibilities."

The most extreme example of that is Donald Knuth who insists that science is everythnign we can explain to a computer while art is everythinng else we do. The computer being even worse than a Martian in that it has no prior knowledge or context about anything.

So of course it's synchronicity. Our shared meaninful coincidences is what we call common sense.

[attofishpi]

I ruined my teeth as a sweet loving teen. My tipple was sherbert lemons and metho-lyptus.
By the time I was adult I was down one molar and a a cluster of fillings. Then there was the saga of the widom teet which my mouht was not able to accomodate. One moved down early to replace the extration, but the others had to be painfully removed.
These things were both a consequence of the modern diet. It is a known fact that children's jaws no longer develop properly since the food we eat these days is just too soft and without the resistance we do not develope the bone growth.

The final injury was getting tonsil cancer which meant my mouth was irradiated and this has cause the final death of severl teeth in the upper jaw.
SInce the cancer I've looks after my teeth since I am at contonual risk of bone necrosis.
Being on a low carb diet has helped this enourmously.

I brush twice a day as a rule though often "forget".

Aside from that - my point was really about how people take things on faith.
People who live outside the western proessed sugar and starch based foods zone, have little or no need to clean their mouths. Tradictional diets are mouth hygenic.

Lol - I just had a chat with my Dad while I was walking the dog - he always wants to know how Donnie is! He spends his days watching utube or reading so I asked him what he's watching - "Richard Feynmann" he said.

So when I got home I decided to watch a video and I picked this one:-
The World from another point of view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhlNSLQAFE&t=182s

..a bit of synchronicity, perhaps you watched the same video at some point - regarding the cleaning of teeth as the Earth revolves!!

I couldn't believe it, but synchronicity can be a bastard when that entity you don't believe exists does it continuously (not the tooth fairy either )

WOW.
This has been in my consciousness for decades.
Feyman had a big influence on me, and the BBC followed him doing several programmes about him which I lapped up. This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain.

Sure Mr Sculptor, and I know how well you and skepdick get along (like best mates ) but I am siding with him - this is synchronicity from my part at least - I just selected a Feynman utube video after a chat wiv me Dad - and within it, Feynmann states precisely the - Everyday as the earth passing into shadow...global tooth brushing routine - the odds are ridiculous.

Synchronicity me ol' nemesis of atheism.

[Sculptor]

Lol - I just had a chat with my Dad while I was walking the dog - he always wants to know how Donnie is! He spends his days watching utube or reading so I asked him what he's watching - "Richard Feynmann" he said.

So when I got home I decided to watch a video and I picked this one:-
The World from another point of view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhlNSLQAFE&t=182s

..a bit of synchronicity, perhaps you watched the same video at some point - regarding the cleaning of teeth as the Earth revolves!!

I couldn't believe it, but synchronicity can be a bastard when that entity you don't believe exists does it continuously (not the tooth fairy either )

WOW.
This has been in my consciousness for decades.
Feyman had a big influence on me, and the BBC followed him doing several programmes about him which I lapped up. This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain.

Sure Mr Sculptor, and I know how well you and skepdick get along (like best mates ) but I am siding with him - this is synchronicity from my part at least - I just selected a Feynman utube video after a chat wiv me Dad - and within it, Feynmann states precisely the - Everyday as the earth passing into shadow...global tooth brushing routine - the odds are ridiculous.

Synchronicity me ol' nemesis of atheism.

Skeptic is a moron.
I dod not read his post as I never do.
He can fuck off and so can you.
If you are simply going to ignore my testimony you can piss off.

[attofishpi]

WOW.
This has been in my consciousness for decades.
Feyman had a big influence on me, and the BBC followed him doing several programmes about him which I lapped up. This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain.

Sure Mr Sculptor, and I know how well you and skepdick get along (like best mates ) but I am siding with him - this is synchronicity from my part at least - I just selected a Feynman utube video after a chat wiv me Dad - and within it, Feynmann states precisely the - Everyday as the earth passing into shadow...global tooth brushing routine - the odds are ridiculous.

Synchronicity me ol' nemesis of atheism.

Skeptic is a moron.
I dod not read his post as I never do.
He can fuck off and so can you.
If you are simply going to ignore my testimony you can piss off.

Hey, c'mon I am not ignoring ne thing. Simply stating that from my POV synchronicity has occurred.

I don't doubt your testimony...it's my testimony that I find 'synchronous' (to our chat in this thread)

"This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain. "

No doubt.

[Sculptor]

Sure Mr Sculptor, and I know how well you and skepdick get along (like best mates ) but I am siding with him - this is synchronicity from my part at least - I just selected a Feynman utube video after a chat wiv me Dad - and within it, Feynmann states precisely the - Everyday as the earth passing into shadow...global tooth brushing routine - the odds are ridiculous.

Synchronicity me ol' nemesis of atheism.

Skeptic is a moron.
I dod not read his post as I never do.
He can fuck off and so can you.
If you are simply going to ignore my testimony you can piss off.

Hey, c'mon I am not ignoring ne thing. Simply stating that from my POV synchronicity has occurred.

Confirmational Bias has occurred.

I don't doubt your testimony...it's my testimony that I find 'synchronous' (to our chat in this thread)

"This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain. "

No doubt.

Something that is so true that you remember it is nothing to do with synchronicity

[attofishpi]

Skeptic is a moron.
I dod not read his post as I never do.
He can fuck off and so can you.
If you are simply going to ignore my testimony you can piss off.

Hey, c'mon I am not ignoring ne thing. Simply stating that from my POV synchronicity has occurred.

Confirmational Bias has occurred.

I don't doubt your testimony...it's my testimony that I find 'synchronous' (to our chat in this thread)

"This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain. "

No doubt.

Something that is so true that you remember it is nothing to do with synchronicity

Well ffs Chaz, your statement:-
"Everyday as the earth passing into shadow, and as it passes out of that shadow, millions, nay billons of people enter into a strange ritual. They do it thoughtlessly for the most part, and automatically rarely thinking aboutwhy they are doing it.

They enter, what is most often the smallest room in their dwelling, a room usually austere with hard clinical feastures; they then squeeze a paste from a tube onto a brush, and putting that in their mouth they brush their teeth"

..and me just happening upon almost the precise same statement on a video among millions/billions since the week or so you posted it - ya to me that is synchronicity.

[Sculptor]

Hey, c'mon I am not ignoring ne thing. Simply stating that from my POV synchronicity has occurred.

Confirmational Bias has occurred.

I don't doubt your testimony...it's my testimony that I find 'synchronous' (to our chat in this thread)

"This is not synchronicity, this is when something is to TRUE that it is unforgettable, and becomes etched into your brain. "

No doubt.

Something that is so true that you remember it is nothing to do with synchronicity

Well ffs Chaz, your statement:-
"Everyday as the earth passing into shadow, and as it passes out of that shadow, millions, nay billons of people enter into a strange ritual. They do it thoughtlessly for the most part, and automatically rarely thinking aboutwhy they are doing it.

They enter, what is most often the smallest room in their dwelling, a room usually austere with hard clinical feastures; they then squeeze a paste from a tube onto a brush, and putting that in their mouth they brush their teeth"

..and me just happening upon almost the precise same statement on a video among millions/billions since the week or so you posted it - ya to me that is synchronicity.

No. It is so obviously memory. Synchronicity means nothing.
It's just like my teacher telling me that 2 and 2 equals four. Millions of people the world over would use the same phrase. That is a memory of something that makes perfect sense. Remembered BECAUSE it is true and makes sense.

WTF does synchronicity even mean?

The idea as I understand it is that the same idea can emerge in two SEPARATE and disconnected places.

This is not the case with this toothbrushing thing.
I am fully connected with Feynman. There is such a thing as TV.
You might have noted that in the Same video Feyman says that he never remembers people's names, or the origin of an idea but is more interested in the content of the idea. This explains how I, too, did not at first link Feyman with the toothbrush idea. But there is absolutely no doubt that I saw that program more than once back in the day, as I evern remember the Yorkshire dark weather he was walking in with his son(?).

[attofishpi]

Confirmational Bias has occurred.


Something that is so true that you remember it is nothing to do with synchronicity

Well ffs Chaz, your statement:-
"Everyday as the earth passing into shadow, and as it passes out of that shadow, millions, nay billons of people enter into a strange ritual. They do it thoughtlessly for the most part, and automatically rarely thinking aboutwhy they are doing it.

They enter, what is most often the smallest room in their dwelling, a room usually austere with hard clinical feastures; they then squeeze a paste from a tube onto a brush, and putting that in their mouth they brush their teeth"

..and me just happening upon almost the precise same statement on a video among millions/billions since the week or so you posted it - ya to me that is synchronicity.

No. It is so obviously memory. Synchronicity means nothing.
It's just like my teacher telling me that 2 and 2 equals four. Millions of people the world over would use the same phrase. That is a memory of something that makes perfect sense. Remembered BECAUSE it is true and makes sense.

WTF does synchronicity even mean?

The idea as I understand it is that the same idea can emerge in two SEPARATE and disconnected places.

This is not the case with this toothbrushing thing.
I am fully connected with Feynman. There is such a thing as TV.
You might have noted that in the Same video Feyman says that he never remembers people's names, or the origin of an idea but is more interested in the content of the idea. This explains how I, too, did not at first link Feyman with the toothbrush idea. But there is absolutely no doubt that I saw that program more than once back in the day, as I evern remember the Yorkshire dark weather he was walking in with his son(?).

Well that's fine man.

When he stated he never remembers the name of an idea rather than the content, it sort of reminded me on the school bus thinking about the 64k memory my computer had and I would attempt to forget things I thought were not important so I don't waste my memory!

With regards to the synchronicity the only fail is 'the same time' - we were out by a weak or too.
Defined as: "the happening by chance of two or more related or similar events at the same time"

[rootseeker]

Is 'this' an actual fact, or just what you think or believe is true?

This is a fact to the degree that dictionary definitions of the terms used are facts, rather than just what I think is true.

And, 'you' ARE AWARE and AGREE THAT there ARE MANY dictionaries and ALL have and hold DIFFERENT 'definitions', right?

I'd categorize them more as assertions rather than facts.

Is an 'assertion' more of what IS 'a fact' or more of just what one 'thinks or believes is true'? Or, an 'assertion' can be both, and it is ONLY ON FURTHER 'investigation' what the ACTUAL Truth IS here COMES-TO-LIGHT?

Each of these statements could be placed on a fact to opinion scale.

They COULD BE, but WHY BOTHER. Obviously if some 'thing' IS A 'Fact', then 'it' can NOT be REFUTED in ANY way or shape. Whereas, if some 'thing' is just what one thinks or BELIEVES is true, ONLY, then what the ACTUAL Truth IS WILL have to be WAITED FOR, and SEEN.

All of mathematics being rooted in axioms is the closest statement to being a fact,

But, to me, 'mathematics' just involves invented and created 'numbers', and NOT necessarily 'rooted in' 'axioms' AT ALL. Unless, OF COURSE, 'you' are using a particular definition for the word 'axiom' here, which I am UNAWARE OF.

while science being expressible with math is closest to being an opinion (what I think or believe is true).

I HAVE and USE a completely DIFFERENT definition here for the 'science' word.

The reason I bothered mentioning the fact-opinion dichotomy is because I don't have a binary answer to your factuality question. There are multiple definitions of words, so context is important, as is using the definition of highest communication utility for the context to avoid confusion. An assertion can be both a fact and/or what one thinks or believes is true with further investigation being warranted, similar to a proposal or hypothesis.

Truth values of mathematics, with mathematics proof, are expressed by mathematicians with endpoints of axioms. "prove that x is true" is always a question of axioms for a mathematician. So, there may be aspects of math that are not axiomatic but when it comes to truth values, those values are axiomatic. Science is a method of determining truth, and scientists claim "truth" in terms of quantity measurements, statistical probability, mathematical formulas, curve-fitting, and other mathematical concepts. What are truth values of science that are not based in mathematics or quantifiable metrics?

[Age]

This is a fact to the degree that dictionary definitions of the terms used are facts, rather than just what I think is true.

And, 'you' ARE AWARE and AGREE THAT there ARE MANY dictionaries and ALL have and hold DIFFERENT 'definitions', right?

I'd categorize them more as assertions rather than facts.

Is an 'assertion' more of what IS 'a fact' or more of just what one 'thinks or believes is true'? Or, an 'assertion' can be both, and it is ONLY ON FURTHER 'investigation' what the ACTUAL Truth IS here COMES-TO-LIGHT?

Each of these statements could be placed on a fact to opinion scale.

They COULD BE, but WHY BOTHER. Obviously if some 'thing' IS A 'Fact', then 'it' can NOT be REFUTED in ANY way or shape. Whereas, if some 'thing' is just what one thinks or BELIEVES is true, ONLY, then what the ACTUAL Truth IS WILL have to be WAITED FOR, and SEEN.

All of mathematics being rooted in axioms is the closest statement to being a fact,

But, to me, 'mathematics' just involves invented and created 'numbers', and NOT necessarily 'rooted in' 'axioms' AT ALL. Unless, OF COURSE, 'you' are using a particular definition for the word 'axiom' here, which I am UNAWARE OF.

while science being expressible with math is closest to being an opinion (what I think or believe is true).

I HAVE and USE a completely DIFFERENT definition here for the 'science' word.

The reason I bothered mentioning the fact-opinion dichotomy is because I don't have a binary answer to your factuality question. There are multiple definitions of words, so context is important, as is using the definition of highest communication utility for the context to avoid confusion. An assertion can be both a fact and/or what one thinks or believes is true with further investigation being warranted, similar to a proposal or hypothesis.

When you say and use the 'fact' word are you talking about or referring to an irrefutable to EVERY one 'truth'?

Truth values of mathematics, with mathematics proof, are expressed by mathematicians with endpoints of axioms. "prove that x is true" is always a question of axioms for a mathematician.

But "mathematicians' can ONLY work with 'numbers' and with 'endpoints' ending with 'numbers' as well.

Which can sometimes be really useless when considering or dealing with ideas, and 'words'.

So, there may be aspects of math that are not axiomatic but when it comes to truth values, those values are axiomatic. Science is a method of determining truth, and scientists claim "truth" in terms of quantity measurements, statistical probability, mathematical formulas, curve-fitting, and other mathematical concepts. What are truth values of science that are not based in mathematics or quantifiable metrics?

I have NO idea.

But 'science', itself, to me, deals with only 'that', which is not yet known. To me, 'science' deals with presumptions, theories, hypotheses, and/or guesses only, and considering 'this' it could then be said or argued that 'science', itself, being also based on 'these things' is then also 'faith based' just like 'theism' IS.