The possible purpose of BLACK HOLES...

[seeds]

_______

There is no doubt a better analogy, but I suggest that, aside from thermodynamics, black holes might be the metaphorical "pistons" that help turn the crankshaft of the great engine of the universe by causing the perpetual movement of the underlying substance from which matter is composed.

I suspect that this is nothing new, but what I am proposing is that due to quantum entanglement theoretically connecting all matter together in a homogenous and interpenetrating state of "oneness" at what physicists call the "non-local" level of reality - something that is loosely demonstrated in the informationally-based underpinning of the laser hologram,...



...it therefore suggests that the gravitational workings of just one black hole alone (via the ol' "spooky action at a distance") could affect (as in move) the entire underlying fabric of reality to some miniscule degree.

However, according to an article on the website "LIVESCIENCE", it is estimated that...

"...40,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 40 quintillion, stellar-mass black holes populate the observable universe..."
https://www.livescience.com/researchers ... 20universe

In which case, just imagine the dynamic (churning/moving/powering) affect that 40 quintillion black holes would have on the entangled oneness of the quantum underpinning of the universe.

In parallel with that, there's always been this persistent mystery of what happens to the matter and light that crosses the event horizon of a black hole?

Well, perhaps it is simply dismantled and reduced back into whatever it is that is being represented in this fanciful depiction of the not-so-empty vacuum of space...



...where it (again, in the context of "non-local" reality) exists in the form of what Heisenberg called "potentia."

In other words, the matter that disappears into a black hole is simply transformed back into Heisenberg's raw potentia substance...

(an infinitely malleable substance, mind you, that, according to quantum theory, is not very "real" itself, but is capable of becoming anything real imaginable)

...that is then reused in the creation of new manifestations of observable phenomena up here in the context of what physicists call "local" reality.

Furthermore, to throw everything (including the kitchen sink) into this speculative venture, perhaps the question of what black holes expel from their backsides is somehow related to the mystery of what dark energy and dark matter are made of.

Anyway, in conclusion, not only might black holes be the metaphorical "pistons" that, along with thermodynamics, help keep the cogs and gears of the great engine of the universe moving,...

...but they may also function as cosmic "recycling bins" for the very foundational essence from which reality is formed.

Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what the purpose of black holes might be?
_______

[Atla]

Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what the purpose of black holes might be?

Reversing entropy. I don't buy the universality of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

[seeds]

Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what the purpose of black holes might be?

Reversing entropy. I don't buy the universality of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Yeah, I can kind of see how that could make sense.

However, in what way do you envision black holes being involved in reversing entropy?
_______

[Atla]

Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what the purpose of black holes might be?

Reversing entropy. I don't buy the universality of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Yeah, I can kind of see how that could make sense.

However, in what way do you envision black holes being involved in reversing entropy?
_______

I admit I don't actually know what entropy means, is there even an agreed upon definition?
I guess it's something like, degree of order/disorder, number of possible configurations, at least from our perspective.

I think the only logical possibility is that the universe's entropy is constant, so if the Big Bang was a highly ordered state, and evolved to the present day's more disordered state, then there must also exist a reverse process that decreases entropy, as we move forward in time.

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

And some even wilder speculation: as for facilitating the quantum observational effect (if there is such a thing at all), I think stars are better candidates than black holes. Stars are spherical and electromagnetic, so they might be good 4-dimensional facilitators or amplifiers of a 4 or more dimensional spherical-electromagnetic (mind-like) observational influence (again, if there is such a thing at all). Okay that made very little sense, would take a lot to unpack.

[Atla]

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

I should add that most physicists seem to believe that quantum fluctuations, virtual particle pairs randomly appear out of nothing. That's a useful model but I think there's more to it, it's just unprovable that there's more to it.

I believe that quantum fluctuations, virtual particles are manifestations of a layer of reality that's also entirely real, this layer is also an integral part of the universe, and is also nonlocally entangled. So I believe that quantum fluctuations are only apparently random, 'God' does not play dice, and of course something can't appear out of nothing.

So in my belief, Hawking radiation changes nothing, black holes do decrease entropy. I think the information paradox doesn't exist. And this whole Holographic universe idea is probably nonsense.

[seeds]

Reversing entropy. I don't buy the universality of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Yeah, I can kind of see how that could make sense.

However, in what way do you envision black holes being involved in reversing entropy?
_______

I admit I don't actually know what entropy means, is there even an agreed upon definition?
I guess it's something like, degree of order/disorder, number of possible configurations, at least from our perspective.

I think the only logical possibility is that the universe's entropy is constant, so if the Big Bang was a highly ordered state, and evolved to the present day's more disordered state, then there must also exist a reverse process that decreases entropy, as we move forward in time.

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

Yes, that's the part of your suggestion that makes sense, at least from the perspective of the physicists and cosmologists who view the pre-bang singularity of the universe...

(where all the matter of the universe was allegedly neatly packed into a tight little homogenous point)

...as being the moment when the universe was in its ultimate state of "order," which has been steadily diminishing since the bang occurred.

I get where they're coming from, in that they are coming from the perspective implicit in this image...



However, and forgive me for constantly using the same illustrations, but it just seems silly to me to apply the term "diminishing order" to the post-bang process that has gradually transformed something resembling the meaningless quantum gibberish implicit in this image...



...into that which is implicit in these images...




Clearly, I have issues with the notion that the universe is becoming "less ordered" as time goes by.
_______

[Atla]

Yeah, I can kind of see how that could make sense.

However, in what way do you envision black holes being involved in reversing entropy?
_______

I admit I don't actually know what entropy means, is there even an agreed upon definition?
I guess it's something like, degree of order/disorder, number of possible configurations, at least from our perspective.

I think the only logical possibility is that the universe's entropy is constant, so if the Big Bang was a highly ordered state, and evolved to the present day's more disordered state, then there must also exist a reverse process that decreases entropy, as we move forward in time.

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

Yes, that's the part of your suggestion that makes sense, at least from the perspective of the physicists and cosmologists who view the pre-bang singularity of the universe...

(where all the matter of the universe was allegedly neatly packed into a tight little homogenous point)

...as being the moment when the universe was in its ultimate state of "order," which has been steadily diminishing since the bang occurred.

I get where they're coming from, in that they are coming from the perspective implicit in this image...



However, and forgive me for constantly using the same illustrations, but it just seems silly to me to apply the term "diminishing order" to the post-bang process that has gradually transformed something resembling the meaningless quantum gibberish implicit in this image...



...into that which is implicit in these images...




Clearly, I have issues with the notion that the universe is becoming "less ordered" as time goes by.
_______

I believe entropy should be constant, otherwise there is no symmetry, no logic. So the total universe must be larger than "our" Big Bang, inferred from "our" observable universe.
If our Big Bang was highly or totally ordered, then other parts of the total universe must have been more disordered at that point.

Other than that, getting our remarkably complex and improbable world, is just a matter of orders of magnitude. If we allow enough or infinitely many orders of magnitude, then any world, no matter how remarkably complex, can naturally exist.

[Atla]

That's where the real philosophy begins: "Okay, but why this world from the many or infinite possibilities?"

[Impenitent]

the actual purpose of black holes is that they are the places where the gods sink the planets when they play galactic billiards...

-Imp

[Age]

_______

There is no doubt a better analogy, but I suggest that, aside from thermodynamics, black holes might be the metaphorical "pistons" that help turn the crankshaft of the great engine of the universe by causing the perpetual movement of the underlying substance from which matter is composed.

And what IS that so-called 'underlying substance' from which matter is composed of, EXACTLY?

Or are you just ASSUMING that there is SOME 'thing'?

Oh, and by the way, are you YET AWARE what that 'thing's' 'underlying substance' composed of, EXACTLY?

Also, could NOT EVERY part of the Universe be playing A PART in the ALWAYS 'turning', or CHANGING, Universe?

I suspect that this is nothing new, but what I am proposing is that due to quantum entanglement theoretically connecting all matter together in a homogenous and interpenetrating state of "oneness" at what physicists call the "non-local" level of reality - something that is loosely demonstrated in the informationally-based underpinning of the laser hologram,...



...it therefore suggests that the gravitational workings of just one black hole alone (via the ol' "spooky action at a distance") could affect (as in move) the entire underlying fabric of reality to some miniscule degree.

The blinking of a human eye is affecting the ENTIRE so-called 'underlying fabric or reality' AS WELL, to some degree.

However, according to an article on the website "LIVESCIENCE", it is estimated that...

"...40,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 40 quintillion, stellar-mass black holes populate the observable universe..."
https://www.livescience.com/researchers ... 20universe

Is that all?

And, by the way, as the observable Universe INCREASES, so to will, and did/does, that minuscule number.

In which case, just imagine the dynamic (churning/moving/powering) affect that 40 quintillion black holes would have on the entangled oneness of the quantum underpinning of the universe.

WHY are you IGNORING the Fact that those black holes do NOT STAY black holes, and IGNORE that they 'go off' with a 'bang', with some 'bangs' being 'bigger bangs' than other ones?

In parallel with that, there's always been this persistent mystery of what happens to the matter and light that crosses the event horizon of a black hole?

Have you NOT YET FOUND OUT and UNDERSTOOD what ACTUALLY happens here?

Well, perhaps it is simply dismantled and reduced back into whatever it is that is being represented in this fanciful depiction of the not-so-empty vacuum of space...



...where it (again, in the context of "non-local" reality) exists in the form of what Heisenberg called "potentia."

In other words, the matter that disappears into a black hole is simply transformed back into Heisenberg's raw potentia substance...

WHY do 'you', people, WANT to KEEP ASSUMING and GUESSING about what COULD happen? Especially when what ACTUALLY happens is SO SIMPLE and EASY to SEE, and UNDERSTAND?

(an infinitely malleable substance, mind you, that, according to quantum theory, is not very "real" itself, but is capable of becoming anything real imaginable)

...that is then reused in the creation of new manifestations of observable phenomena up here in the context of what physicists call "local" reality.

Talk about STARTING FROM the UNFEASIBLE, and then DRIFTING OFF even FURTHER.

Furthermore, to throw everything (including the kitchen sink) into this speculative venture, perhaps the question of what black holes expel from their backsides is somehow related to the mystery of what dark energy and dark matter are made of.

That is it, add some MADE UP substance into the mix here.

Anyway, in conclusion, not only might black holes be the metaphorical "pistons" that, along with thermodynamics, help keep the cogs and gears of the great engine of the universe moving,...

...but they may also function as cosmic "recycling bins" for the very foundational essence from which reality is formed.

It sounds like you are here SAYING or CLAIMING that 'black holes' are behind 'that' what CREATES Everything, the Universe, or Reality, Itself. Which is just FURTHER ABSURDNESS.

Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what the purpose of black holes might be?
_______

I suggest you WORK OUT or FIND OUT what ACTUALLY HAPPENS and OCCURS BEFORE you start to WONDER 'what their purpose is'.

See, what they ACTUALLY 'do', is their ACTUAL 'purpose'.

Just like what 'fingers', 'eyes', 'animals', 'plants', 'planets', 'stars', and 'galaxies' 'do', is what could be said is 'their purpose'.

Black holes are just ANOTHER PART of the Universe, Itself, and PLAY their PART just like EVERY 'thing' ELSE DOES.

[Age]

Reversing entropy. I don't buy the universality of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Yeah, I can kind of see how that could make sense.

However, in what way do you envision black holes being involved in reversing entropy?
_______

I admit I don't actually know what entropy means, is there even an agreed upon definition?
I guess it's something like, degree of order/disorder, number of possible configurations, at least from our perspective.

I think the only logical possibility is that the universe's entropy is constant,

BUT, there are ACTUALLY OTHER 'logical' and possibilities, as well as what ACTUALLY HAPPENS.

so if the Big Bang was a highly ordered state, and evolved to the present day's more disordered state,

But according to your so-called "logic" here, the 'present day's state' would be a so-called 'highly ordered state', compared to 'later on'.

then there must also exist a reverse process that decreases entropy, as we move forward in time.

WHY?

What has led you to IMAGINE or BELIEVE 'this' here?

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

What, EXACTLY, makes an 'infinite compression of matter state' MORE 'ordered' than 'a state', than 'a state' where there IS just 'space'?

And some even wilder speculation: as for facilitating the quantum observational effect (if there is such a thing at all), I think stars are better candidates than black holes. Stars are spherical and electromagnetic, so they might be good 4-dimensional facilitators or amplifiers of a 4 or more dimensional spherical-electromagnetic (mind-like) observational influence (again, if there is such a thing at all). Okay that made very little sense, would take a lot to unpack.

There IS some 'truth' in what you say here, but the words you used just need a bit of re-wording, to FIT IN WITH what IS ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct.

[Age]

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

I should add that most physicists seem to believe that quantum fluctuations, virtual particle pairs randomly appear out of nothing.

Most adult people also BELIEVE OTHER 'things', which could NOT POSSIBLY be true EITHER. But they STILL BELIEVE 'these things'.

That's a useful model but I think there's more to it, it's just unprovable that there's more to it.

That is one of the MOST IDIOTIC and STUPID models, and thus a Truly TOTALLY USELESS models ALSO.

I believe that quantum fluctuations, virtual particles are manifestations of a layer of reality that's also entirely real, this layer is also an integral part of the universe, and is also nonlocally entangled. So I believe that quantum fluctuations are only apparently random, 'God' does not play dice, and of course something can't appear out of nothing.

So in my belief, Hawking radiation changes nothing, black holes do decrease entropy.

This is a HUGE CLAIM. So, HOW could this happen, EXACTLY?

I think the information paradox doesn't exist. And this whole Holographic universe idea is probably nonsense.

What ACTUALLY HAPPENS and OCCURS is FAR SIMPLER and EASIER to KNOW, and UNDERSTAND, than these people ACTUALLY REALIZE.

[Age]

Yeah, I can kind of see how that could make sense.

However, in what way do you envision black holes being involved in reversing entropy?
_______

I admit I don't actually know what entropy means, is there even an agreed upon definition?
I guess it's something like, degree of order/disorder, number of possible configurations, at least from our perspective.

I think the only logical possibility is that the universe's entropy is constant, so if the Big Bang was a highly ordered state, and evolved to the present day's more disordered state, then there must also exist a reverse process that decreases entropy, as we move forward in time.

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

Yes, that's the part of your suggestion that makes sense, at least from the perspective of the physicists and cosmologists who view the pre-bang singularity of the universe...

(where all the matter of the universe was allegedly neatly packed into a tight little homogenous point)

...as being the moment when the universe was in its ultimate state of "order," which has been steadily diminishing since the bang occurred.

WHY do 'you', people, call 'that state' an 'ultimate state of order'?

I get where they're coming from, in that they are coming from the perspective implicit in this image...

LOL

Just because there is NO 'space', that is; NO 'distance' between/around 'matter', then these people call 'that' 'an ultimate state of order', for some reason.

LOL It is just a PART of the Universe, Itself, in A DIFFERENT 'state'. Absolutely NOTHING unusual NOR extraordinary here.

However, and forgive me for constantly using the same illustrations, but it just seems silly to me to apply the term "diminishing order" to the post-bang process that has gradually transformed something resembling the meaningless quantum gibberish implicit in this image...



...into that which is implicit in these images...




Clearly, I have issues with the notion that the universe is becoming "less ordered" as time goes by.
_______

I am NOT even SURE WHY 'you', people, USE that MISNOMER.

Also, WHY do you USE that first image here?

Is that image what you ASSUME or BELIEVE 'things' were like, once upon a time?

[Age]

I admit I don't actually know what entropy means, is there even an agreed upon definition?
I guess it's something like, degree of order/disorder, number of possible configurations, at least from our perspective.

I think the only logical possibility is that the universe's entropy is constant, so if the Big Bang was a highly ordered state, and evolved to the present day's more disordered state, then there must also exist a reverse process that decreases entropy, as we move forward in time.

To me, the best candidates seem to be black holes, where all matter falls towards a single point, maybe is condensed into a Planck-length. So looks like the singularity gets more ordered again.

Yes, that's the part of your suggestion that makes sense, at least from the perspective of the physicists and cosmologists who view the pre-bang singularity of the universe...

(where all the matter of the universe was allegedly neatly packed into a tight little homogenous point)

...as being the moment when the universe was in its ultimate state of "order," which has been steadily diminishing since the bang occurred.

I get where they're coming from, in that they are coming from the perspective implicit in this image...



However, and forgive me for constantly using the same illustrations, but it just seems silly to me to apply the term "diminishing order" to the post-bang process that has gradually transformed something resembling the meaningless quantum gibberish implicit in this image...



...into that which is implicit in these images...




Clearly, I have issues with the notion that the universe is becoming "less ordered" as time goes by.
_______

I believe entropy should be constant,

This is an example of one of the WORST ATTEMPTS AT 'logic', itself.

WHO CARES what you BELIEVE, especially when what you BELIEVE CONTRADICTS what ACTUALLY TAKES PLACE?

So the total universe must be larger than "our" Big Bang, inferred from "our" observable universe.

Are there STILL some people who think or BELIEVE otherwise here?

If our Big Bang was highly or totally ordered, then other parts of the total universe must have been more disordered at that point.

How the Universe IS, in ALL 'states' or 'places', is 'ORDERED'. Or, IS, EXACTLY, how 'It' IS 'meant to be'.

Other than that, getting our remarkably complex and improbable world, is just a matter of orders of magnitude.

What do the words 'our world' even REFER TO, EXACTLY?

By the way, NOTHING here is complex NOR improbable AT ALL.

If we allow enough or infinitely many orders of magnitude, then any world, no matter how remarkably complex, can naturally exist.

Considering the WHOLE Universe is 'remarkably' VERY SIMPLE, absolutely EVERY 'thing' WITHIN 'It' IS, ALSO, just AS SIMPLE.

[Age]

That's where the real philosophy begins: "Okay, but why this world from the many or infinite possibilities?"

AGAIN, what do 'you', people, MEAN by 'this world' OR 'our world', EXACTLY?