Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Wizard22
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Wizard22 »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:11 amThese ideas can only be known now.

Now never moves. Now cannot move, only the mind moves, and that apparent movement is the illusion of the unmoved mover that is known conceptually as mind. The mind is known, and that which is known knows nothing.
I disagree.

"Now" is a duration, not an instant.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?
I think it matters from a worldview that EVERYONE on this planet, pretty much have been warned - that GOD may exist.

I think it matters that if GOD does exist, that souls exist and thus what may happen in future time based on each human decision, especially where they act in an evil manner, will have consequences beyond mere human just_ice. (in time)

That should be a concern for all. :evil:
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Dontaskme »

Wizard22 wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:38 am
I disagree.

"Now" is a duration, not an instant.
I agree.

Durations are movements, known right here and now.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Dontaskme »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?
I think it matters from a worldview that EVERYONE on this planet, pretty much have been warned - that GOD may exist.

I think it matters that if GOD does exist, that souls exist and thus what may happen in future time based on each human decision, especially where they act in an evil manner, will have consequences beyond mere human just_ice. (in time)

That should be a concern for all. :evil:
Nature is a serial killer, a killer on mass with no regard, respect or intention of dishing out some special dispensation
reserved only for the goodie two shoe characters of the world, nor for any other furry or naked sentient or non-sentient thing for that matter, none whatsoever.

What you are saying Atto, is that nature herself must be held accountable for her mass killing sprees. Yeah, whatever.

The universe is indifferent and impartial to your thoughts and ideas about it, just test that indifference out for yourself next time you are caught up in an unfortunate situation beyond your control like being swallowed up by a riptide where you suddenly find yourself breathing in copious amounts of salty water until your lungs are no longer functioning forcing you to suffocate until dead, and who knows how long that agony will take, and this horrible nasty frightening experience just randomly happening to you, all because you were simply trying to enjoy a relaxed leisurely swim in the sea.

No one is immune from the grim reaper, life is not as good as you think, maybe life is a place where evil hell is unleashed, it's just as possible as a good heavenly place is unleashed. Could be both evil and good, seems like either which way is possible and could be a completely unavoidable consequence of being a conscious alive being. Nature is sadistic to even intend this on any sentient creature. Luckily, nature has no such intention.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?
I think it matters from a worldview that EVERYONE on this planet, pretty much have been warned - that GOD may exist.

I think it matters that if GOD does exist, that souls exist and thus what may happen in future time based on each human decision, especially where they act in an evil manner, will have consequences beyond mere human just_ice. (in time)

That should be a concern for all. :evil:
I wrote this,

Theism within non-Islam is not a big issue.
The extreme with theism is that extremist Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs as an imperative duty from being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.
For these extreme Islamists it is a lose-WIN situation, i.e. they lose their physical life [worthless to them] but win with a guarantee of external life and 72 virgins in paradise as promised by their God.
As such if we were to wean off theism in the future [not possible now], there there is no possibility of the human species being exterminated by extremist theistic Islamists.

With non-theism it is unlikely for them to exterminate the human species via WMDs due to Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD].

I had stated, human beings are inherently evil, but there had been great improvements in the reduction of significant evils and lesser evils since 10,000 years ago up to the present.

I am proposing in the Ethical Theory section it is very possible and how the human species can expedite exponential improvements moral progress in the future [not now] without any reference to God at all but based on a human-based moral framework and system.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:21 am
attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?
I think it matters from a worldview that EVERYONE on this planet, pretty much have been warned - that GOD may exist.

I think it matters that if GOD does exist, that souls exist and thus what may happen in future time based on each human decision, especially where they act in an evil manner, will have consequences beyond mere human just_ice. (in time)

That should be a concern for all. :evil:
I wrote this,

Theism within non-Islam is not a big issue.
The extreme with theism is that extremist Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs as an imperative duty from being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.
For these extreme Islamists it is a lose-WIN situation, i.e. they lose their physical life [worthless to them] but win with a guarantee of external life and 72 virgins in paradise as promised by their God.
As such if we were to wean off theism in the future [not possible now], there there is no possibility of the human species being exterminated by extremist theistic Islamists.

With non-theism it is unlikely for them to exterminate the human species via WMDs due to Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD].

I had stated, human beings are inherently evil, but there had been great improvements in the reduction of significant evils and lesser evils since 10,000 years ago up to the present.

I am proposing in the Ethical Theory section it is very possible and how the human species can expedite exponential improvements moral progress in the future [not now] without any reference to God at all but based on a human-based moral framework and system.
But.

Your question is "Does it matter whether God exists or not?"

You are confusing the concept of the existence of God (theism) and what results, with there actually being a God in existence (thread title) - where there are NO apparent differences within reality binarily as to whether God exists or not (*until after death apparently, IF it exists).

So.

No IT DOESNT MATTER whether God does exist or not. Since, while alive on Earth nobody (apart from my sort) have anything happening to them as a result of God actually existing. (or at least, are not aware their life has some karmic stuff from God affecting their lives).
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:40 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:21 am
attofishpi wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:46 am

I think it matters from a worldview that EVERYONE on this planet, pretty much have been warned - that GOD may exist.

I think it matters that if GOD does exist, that souls exist and thus what may happen in future time based on each human decision, especially where they act in an evil manner, will have consequences beyond mere human just_ice. (in time)

That should be a concern for all. :evil:
I wrote this,

Theism within non-Islam is not a big issue.
The extreme with theism is that extremist Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs as an imperative duty from being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.
For these extreme Islamists it is a lose-WIN situation, i.e. they lose their physical life [worthless to them] but win with a guarantee of external life and 72 virgins in paradise as promised by their God.
As such if we were to wean off theism in the future [not possible now], there there is no possibility of the human species being exterminated by extremist theistic Islamists.

With non-theism it is unlikely for them to exterminate the human species via WMDs due to Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD].

I had stated, human beings are inherently evil, but there had been great improvements in the reduction of significant evils and lesser evils since 10,000 years ago up to the present.

I am proposing in the Ethical Theory section it is very possible and how the human species can expedite exponential improvements moral progress in the future [not now] without any reference to God at all but based on a human-based moral framework and system.
But.

Your question is "Does it matter whether God exists or not?"

You are confusing the concept of the existence of God (theism) and what results, with there actually being a God in existence (thread title) - where there are NO apparent differences within reality binarily as to whether God exists or not (*until after death apparently, IF it exists).

So.

No IT DOESNT MATTER whether God does exist or not. Since, while alive on Earth nobody (apart from my sort) have anything happening to them as a result of God actually existing. (or at least, are not aware their life has some karmic stuff from God affecting their lives).
You need to the full context of my intentions with the stipulated contexts within the OP, i.e. which is toward the future.

I agree, at present it matter whether God exists or not does matter to the majority of humans. Without a belief of God at present, theists will be paralyzed as driven by the very painful cognitive dissonances emerging from an existential crisis.

But in the future when humanity is able to enable alternative non-theistic practices and methods [to replace theism fully] to deal with the inherent unavoidable very painful cognitive dissonances emerging from an existential crisis, then whether God exist or not, does not matter; that is because God in the first place is not a matter-of-fact that matters.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:23 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:40 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:21 am
I wrote this,

Theism within non-Islam is not a big issue.
The extreme with theism is that extremist Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs as an imperative duty from being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.
For these extreme Islamists it is a lose-WIN situation, i.e. they lose their physical life [worthless to them] but win with a guarantee of external life and 72 virgins in paradise as promised by their God.
As such if we were to wean off theism in the future [not possible now], there there is no possibility of the human species being exterminated by extremist theistic Islamists.

With non-theism it is unlikely for them to exterminate the human species via WMDs due to Mutual Assured Destruction [MAD].

I had stated, human beings are inherently evil, but there had been great improvements in the reduction of significant evils and lesser evils since 10,000 years ago up to the present.

I am proposing in the Ethical Theory section it is very possible and how the human species can expedite exponential improvements moral progress in the future [not now] without any reference to God at all but based on a human-based moral framework and system.
But.

Your question is "Does it matter whether God exists or not?"

You are confusing the concept of the existence of God (theism) and what results, with there actually being a God in existence (thread title) - where there are NO apparent differences within reality binarily as to whether God exists or not (*until after death apparently, IF it exists).

So.

No IT DOESNT MATTER whether God does exist or not. Since, while alive on Earth nobody (apart from my sort) have anything happening to them as a result of God actually existing. (or at least, are not aware their life has some karmic stuff from God affecting their lives).
You need to the full context of my intentions with the stipulated contexts within the OP, i.e. which is toward the future.

I agree, at present it matter whether God exists or not does matter to the majority of humans. Without a belief of God at present, theists will be paralyzed as driven by the very painful cognitive dissonances emerging from an existential crisis.

But in the future when humanity is able to enable alternative non-theistic practices and methods [to replace theism fully] to deal with the inherent unavoidable very painful cognitive dissonances emerging from an existential crisis, then whether God exist or not, does not matter; that is because God in the first place is not a matter-of-fact that matters.
Is English a second language?

Or.

Are incapable of intelligent reasoning?
ThinkOfOne
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by ThinkOfOne »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

The extreme with theism is that extremists Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.

Views?
Whether or not God exists is wholly dependent on what conception of God. As an example, from what I gather, for Gandhi God is truth or rather truth is God.

Why single out Islamic extremists and not Christian extremists for example? If you think that Christian extremists are less a threat to the human species, you're kidding yourself.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

ThinkOfOne wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:46 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

The extreme with theism is that extremists Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.

Views?
Whether or not God exists is wholly dependent on what conception of God. As an example, from what I gather, for Gandhi God is truth or rather truth is God.
My principle is;
1. Reality, facts, truths, knowledge and objectivity are conditioned upon a specific human based Framework and System of Reality [FSR] and Knowledge [FSK], thus cannot be independent from humans [mind and body]. see;
What is a Framework and System of Knowledge?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31889

2. As such, truth is not independent from humans.
3. God is independent from humans.
4. Therefore God cannot be truth.
Why single out Islamic extremists and not Christian extremists for example? If you think that Christian extremists are less a threat to the human species, you're kidding yourself.
A Christian or Muslim is one who had entered into a Contract[covenant] with God.
The terms of contract for the Christian is in the Gospels [not whole Bible] while for the Muslim is the Quran.

For the Christian, the overriding term of the Divine Contract, is all Christians must love all and even enemies, give the other cheek, and the like.
As such, no Christians are to kill humans or else they have sinned per the contractual term.

In situation of just wars or other aggressions by Christian, they are doing those negatives on the own personal will out of necessity or due to some evil.
In this case, they have sinned.
But those who commit aggressions out of necessity to protect the religion, had sinned but they are likely to be forgiven by God. Those who commit sins without good reasons will be punished accordingly.

In the case of Islam, the contractual terms in the Quran a Muslim had signed with God as commanded by God, obligate Muslims to kill non-believers within the slightest threat to Islam. If they do so, they will be highly rewarded with eternal life and paradise in many fold compared to the ordinary Muslim.

See: 5:33 Pickthall Trans,
  • The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land [fasadin]
    will be that they will be killed or crucified,
    or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off,
    or will be expelled out of the land.
    Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
Translators often use their discretions and biasness to translate Arabic words into English which end up deviating from the original intention of the word.
The 'corruption in the land' is translated from the Arabic word 'fasad' and its related words 'fasadin'.
If one were to look up an Arabic dictionary, there are various meanings related to 'fasad' and this is expounded in exegesis by various credible Islamic scholars.
In the various exegesis, 'fasad' cover a wide range of threats to the religion of Islam, i.e. from the slightest threats to the greatest threats as reasons to kill non-believers.
Non-believers with their non-believing is also a threat to the religion.
"open disobedience against God" by not-believing by non-believers.

The translation of 5:33 by Muslims [SOME* - not all] all over the World into real evil acts is so evident
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com
"43475 Attacks [with fatalities] by Muslims since 911"
Note 'SOME' Muslims, if 10% is 150 millions around the world.
It only take less than 100 to decide on using WMDs when available.

So, am I kidding?
No, rather you are ignorant of reality and what is really going on around the world.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by ThinkOfOne »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:16 am
ThinkOfOne wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:46 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

The extreme with theism is that extremists Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.

Views?
Whether or not God exists is wholly dependent on what conception of God. As an example, from what I gather, for Gandhi God is truth or rather truth is God.
My principle is;
1. Reality, facts, truths, knowledge and objectivity are conditioned upon a specific human based Framework and System of Reality [FSR] and Knowledge [FSK], thus cannot be independent from humans [mind and body]. see;
What is a Framework and System of Knowledge?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31889

2. As such, truth is not independent from humans.
3. God is independent from humans.
4. Therefore God cannot be truth.
Why single out Islamic extremists and not Christian extremists for example? If you think that Christian extremists are less a threat to the human species, you're kidding yourself.
A Christian or Muslim is one who had entered into a Contract[covenant] with God.
The terms of contract for the Christian is in the Gospels [not whole Bible] while for the Muslim is the Quran.

For the Christian, the overriding term of the Divine Contract, is all Christians must love all and even enemies, give the other cheek, and the like.
As such, no Christians are to kill humans or else they have sinned per the contractual term.

In situation of just wars or other aggressions by Christian, they are doing those negatives on the own personal will out of necessity or due to some evil.
In this case, they have sinned.
But those who commit aggressions out of necessity to protect the religion, had sinned but they are likely to be forgiven by God. Those who commit sins without good reasons will be punished accordingly.


So, am I kidding?
No, rather you are ignorant of reality and what is really going on around the world.
Clearly you don't understand the first thing about Christianity re: "...the overriding term of the Divine Contract, is all Christians must love all and even enemies, give the other cheek, and the like." and everything else that follows for that matter. As a matter of curiosity, where'd you get those ideas?

As to your rant on Islam, evidently you fully embrace demagoguery.
popeye1945
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by popeye1945 »

O' freedom, O' freedom. O' freedom over me, and before I'll be a slave, I'll be buried in my grave, and go home to my lord and be free, just trading masters. As old Einstein stated, " It is time humanity grew up." A topic idea, religious insanity!
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

ThinkOfOne wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:26 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:16 am
ThinkOfOne wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:46 pm
Whether or not God exists is wholly dependent on what conception of God. As an example, from what I gather, for Gandhi God is truth or rather truth is God.
My principle is;
1. Reality, facts, truths, knowledge and objectivity are conditioned upon a specific human based Framework and System of Reality [FSR] and Knowledge [FSK], thus cannot be independent from humans [mind and body]. see;
What is a Framework and System of Knowledge?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31889

2. As such, truth is not independent from humans.
3. God is independent from humans.
4. Therefore God cannot be truth.
Why single out Islamic extremists and not Christian extremists for example? If you think that Christian extremists are less a threat to the human species, you're kidding yourself.
A Christian or Muslim is one who had entered into a Contract[covenant] with God.
The terms of contract for the Christian is in the Gospels [not whole Bible] while for the Muslim is the Quran.

For the Christian, the overriding term of the Divine Contract, is all Christians must love all and even enemies, give the other cheek, and the like.
As such, no Christians are to kill humans or else they have sinned per the contractual term.

In situation of just wars or other aggressions by Christian, they are doing those negatives on the own personal will out of necessity or due to some evil.
In this case, they have sinned.
But those who commit aggressions out of necessity to protect the religion, had sinned but they are likely to be forgiven by God. Those who commit sins without good reasons will be punished accordingly.


So, am I kidding?
No, rather you are ignorant of reality and what is really going on around the world.
Clearly you don't understand the first thing about Christianity re: "...the overriding term of the Divine Contract, is all Christians must love all and even enemies, give the other cheek, and the like." and everything else that follows for that matter. As a matter of curiosity, where'd you get those ideas?
Don't be that arrogant, you maybe the one who is ignorant of what Christianity means.
Do you understand what are the essential elements of a contract [explicit or implied]?

Do you agree, a Christian has to enter into a contract with Jesus and God via John 3:16 before he can call himself a Christian?
If he had entered into a contract [covenant -new] with God then he has to comply with the contractual terms in the Gospels [Christ related] only.

Why don't you give me your views and supporting references why you thing I am wrong.
As to your rant on Islam, evidently you fully embrace demagoguery.
Rather you are in ignorance condoning potential genocide and the extermination of the human species?
If not, prove otherwise or I am wrong.
If you are not an expert on the Quran, it would wiser for you not to give the above sort of one-liner.

I only quoted the main Quran 5:33, there are hundreds of other verses in the Quran that supported my point.
As matter of credibility, I had spent 3 years full time researching the Quran with a fine-toothed comb and with detailed analysis.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:10 am Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

Humanity has progressed tremendously so far, especially based on non-theistic science and other fields of knowledge without any reliance on whether God exists or not.

It is often claimed what without God there is no morality.
But note one of the greatest moral improvement is the significant reduction in Chattel Slavery when Christianity and Islam the major theistic religions condone slavery; at present all sovereign nations has laws the prohibit chattel slavery and in most cases, all forms of slavery.

I have justified;
God is an Impossibility [to be Real]
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

Why the majority of humans then and at present need God to exists [as real to them] is purely for psychological purposes, i.e. it has utilities as balm to soothe the cognitive dissonances arising from an inherent existential crisis.

It is likely theism have had contributed in soothing the cognitive pains of the majority of humans in the past, thus sustaining their relative well-being that is optimal to the then and present stage of evolution.

However in the last 600 years the average human has progressed tremendously so far, especially based on non-theistic science and other fields of knowledge without any reliance on whether God exists or not.
Currently there is a trend of an exponential expansion of knowledge but this is hindered by theism and philosophical realism.
The extreme with theism is that extremists Islamists could exterminate the human species with cheap easily available WMDs being contractually bound to commands of their God in the holy texts.

Since theism is driven by inherent cognitive dissonance arising from an existential crisis, where the latter cannot be got rid of, the viable solution is to wean off theism with alternative FOOLPROOF solutions to replace theism.
Therefrom it does not matter whether god exists or not.

Views?
The right question is whether people believe in God or not.
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Re: Does It Matter Whether God Exists or Not?

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