Say if one is 'seeing' a goat in a farm.Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:41 amThe trouble with this premise is that the term "exists" ALWAYS expresses a mind-made judgment.Magnus Anderson wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 12:51 am Realism, in general, refers to the idea that there exist mind-independent things. A mind-independent thing is a thing that exists independently of minds
It's the mind that determines what's mind-dependent and what's mind-independent.
This is a goat. Further asserting that "It exists." is an ontological/metaphysical claim. There's no such thing as mind-independent metaphysics.
Is there really an absolutely mind-independent goat out there under all conditions?
Using reflective and critical thinking,
what is likely to be a permanent or persisting goal out there is a persisting existence of a goat like that of moving images from series of single images in motion.
This is sustained by the human mind.
What is more realistic [re realists' version] about that goat that is alive is, it is merely a cluster of molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in time [t] and space [l].
Therefore it is more realistic [realists' version], instead of saying there is a mind-independent goat out there, we should say, that specific bundle and cluster of molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in time t and space[l].
Does anyone deny this?
To be even more realistic [realist version], we should state,
there is bundle and cluster of molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in time t and space[l] then track the existence of every molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in its specific time t and specific location in space[l].
Why are philosophical realists so ignorant in insisting on merely 'things' [goats, etc.] exists as mind-independent when what is more realistic is to identify the specific bundle and cluster of molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in time t and space[s] then track the existence of every molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in its specific time t and specific location in space[l].
The point is when philosophical realists via an evolutionary default insist there is an independent goat out there [the macro], they are not being realistic; this is conditioned upon the human mind to prefer this simplicity [to facilitate survival] instead of the more realistic version of referencing to that specific bundle and cluster of molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in time t and space[s] and tracking the existence of every molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in its specific time t and specific location in space[l].
As such, the philosophy realist claim of mind-independent things [even within the realist FSK] is not realistic because there is the more realistic micro version which they ignore.
Now, even if philosophical realists can track the existence of every molecules and atoms with electrons and particles in motion in its changing time t and changing location in space[l], the fact is that molecules, atoms, electrons and particles are not mind-independent things but are conditioned upon the science-physics-chemistry FSK, thus cannot be absolutely independent of the human mind [or human conditions.
In addition, there is the human conditions [mind] in interaction with "other things" but both these two things are in constant flux within a primordial soup of particles that are always interchanging particles within each other.
As such, things [of particles] in constant flux with the human conditions [mind and body] in constant flux and interchanging particles within themselves, can NEVER be independent from one another.
What is most realistic is this;
before any things is perceived, known or described, there is the prior processes of emergence and realization within the human conditions via the interaction of particles within the primordial soup in constant flux.
So, there are no things that are independent of the human conditions as claimed by philosophical realists.
The most realistic sense of reality is, things in existence cannot be absolute independent of the human conditions [mind, brain and body]; things in existence emerged and are realized within a human-based FSR, then it is perceived, known via FSK and described within the linguistic FSK.