Decline of the West???

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Wizard22
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Wizard22 »

Maia, if you or somebody you knew was violently assaulted by a criminal with a gun, would you rather be defenseless or have a gun of your own?

...there's your answer.
Skepdick
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Skepdick »

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:19 am If your murderer has a gun, then obviously, it's better if you do, too.
Not IF. It's always better for equalise upwards not downwards.

If your murderer has physical strength, testostestorne and twice your body weigth there's nothing you can do to equalise down.

The strong and the many win any physical confrontation by default.
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:19 am If your murderer doesn't have a gun, though, you may not even get murdered in the first place.
Then why was there so much murdering before guns?
Maia
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Maia »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:20 am Maia, if you or somebody you knew was violently assaulted by a criminal with a gun, would you rather be defenseless or have a gun of your own?

...there's your answer.
Well, for a start off, I wouldn't be much use with a gun, would I?

Far better to eliminate guns, or, failing that as an impossibility, greatly reduce their numbers and availability.
Maia
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Maia »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:22 am
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:19 am If your murderer has a gun, then obviously, it's better if you do, too.
Not IF. It's always better for equalise upwards not downwards.

If your murderer has physical strength, testostestorne and twice your body weigth there's nothing you can do to equalise down.

The strong and the many win any physical confrontation by default.
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:19 am If your murderer doesn't have a gun, though, you may not even get murdered in the first place.
Then why was there so much murdering before guns?
Societies in the past were far more violent in general.
Skepdick
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Skepdick »

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:28 am Societies in the past were far more violent in general.
Right!

More violent. Less equal.

I much prefer the equality of modernity - where my physical advantage over a woman was nulified by a mechanical invention.

It's a good foundation for some accountability for sure.
Maia
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Maia »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 am
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:28 am Societies in the past were far more violent in general.
Right!

More violent. Less equal.

I much prefer the equality of modernity - where my physical advantage over a woman was nulified by a mechanical invention.
No solution is perfect, so we have to weigh which ones cause greater harm.
Skepdick
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Skepdick »

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:31 am No solution is perfect, so we have to weigh which ones cause greater harm.
Indeed. And equalising upwards is where I've landed.

Don't make bad people weak.
Make good people strong.
Maia
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Maia »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:34 am
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:31 am No solution is perfect, so we have to weigh which ones cause greater harm.
Indeed. And equalising upwards is where I've landed.

Don't make bad people weak.
Make good people strong.
If only it were that simple.
Skepdick
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Skepdick »

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:35 am
Skepdick wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:34 am
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:31 am No solution is perfect, so we have to weigh which ones cause greater harm.
Indeed. And equalising upwards is where I've landed.

Don't make bad people weak.
Make good people strong.
If only it were that simple.
It's certainly just a small piece of the puzzle, but history is full of lessons.

It's much better to be a warrior in a garden; than a gardener in a war.
Maia
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Maia »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:38 am
Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:35 am
Skepdick wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:34 am
Indeed. And equalising upwards is where I've landed.

Don't make bad people weak.
Make good people strong.
If only it were that simple.
It's certainly just a small piece of the puzzle, but history is full of lessons.

It's much better to be a warrior in a garden; than a gardener in a war.
Societal change is the answer, though it appears to be going the wrong way at the moment. But these things always go in cycles.
Wizard22
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Wizard22 »

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:27 amWell, for a start off, I wouldn't be much use with a gun, would I?
You can fire at pointblank range by the way.

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:27 amFar better to eliminate guns, or, failing that as an impossibility, greatly reduce their numbers and availability.
You're missing Skepdick and my point here....

You need to reduce the need for weapons of violence in the first place. It is the WILL to commit violence, that precludes the weapon, in any form. You can't remove this from human nature, correct? So why remain defenseless against those who would brutalize you? That makes ZERO sense.
Skepdick
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Skepdick »

Maia wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:41 am Societal change is the answer, though it appears to be going the wrong way at the moment. But these things always go in cycles.
I'm all for change; all for change in the right direction; and for being an agent of that change.

Guns are for those who think otherwise. And for regressive changes.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Iwannaplato »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:49 am It's not only the Rich who are 'at fault' with the general decline of Western Civilization. It is the middle class. It is the poor. It is the noble.

Everybody can be blamed, even if some more than others. Every small person plays their part in the erosion.
Sure, everyone can influence things in directions I like and those I dislike. In general if you can spend millions on advertising, say on television news programs, the odds are, well, let's call it an understated 'good' that you can have more influence over attitudes, eventual legislation, what investigative journalism gets set to the side, how politicians are viewed and coverd and so on
compared to the average plumber.

I don't write off anyone, poor or rich, middle-class or not, educated or not. And masses of any type of person can do a lot towards what I like and towards what I don't like.

Power players have been using the mob from long before Rome.
Skepdick
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Skepdick »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:49 am It's not only the Rich who are 'at fault' with the general decline of Western Civilization. It is the middle class. It is the poor. It is the noble.

Everybody can be blamed, even if some more than others. Every small person plays their part in the erosion.
When did blame ever achieve anything other than start witch-hunts?

Quit playing the blame-game and start playing the "here's a better way" game.
Wizard22
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Re: Decline of the West???

Post by Wizard22 »

Because if you can't Blame a person, then nothing can be done to correct the error.

In fact it's assured to repeat. In this case, we see an exact repetition of history, namely mass spread of homosexuality and transexuality in an Empire as it declines (Rome, now USA).

So who is responsible for peddling this smut to kids?
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